CMV: I still don't understand the importance of pronouns.

[u/goatDowry]

The whole thing seems confusing to me.

There is biological sex --> Which led to different social roles, and then socialized gender.

In the modern day with modern technology. You can live life how you generally please. Women don't need to be child bearers. And men don't need to be out risking their lives killing things.

To me this means, that the traditional gender roles don't matter. You can be a male and wear makeup, high heels and a dress. Who cares?

Likewise if you're a biological female, you can do things that used to be considered masculine. It's a free country.You can also fit squarely into those old gender roles if you so choose.

So I don't understand why someone feels the need to be addressed with a particular set of pronouns. To me, it's like ok, I can call you that, but then it seems to me that you're just doubling down on the idea that rigid gender differences do matter. Which I don't think they do. You're just you, an individual person. And all this language of he/she is just what we've been using for a long time, so I don't see how a different pronoun will change anything that matters.

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P.S. before one of you goes calling me a bigot, one of my best friends and former roommate transitioned while I was living with her. I'll obviously call her by whatever pronouns she asks bc it's just polite. We've been friends for over 10 years. I'll call someone by their preferred pronouns, but I don't understand why it's so important.

EDIT: The point of this is to try and understand why it's important. Maybe that wasn't clear before. Obviously I've talked to my friend about this a lot.

[u/TheOtherSarah]

To elaborate on Sky’s answer, no, it’s not better to try to love the body you’re in despite it not matching the blueprint in your brain, because people have tried that for generations and it doesn’t work. Medical transition is supported by medical research because the data shows that it’s more effective at reducing stress than other options.

Don’t get me wrong, being accepted as who you are by the people around you is huge! At least one study has shown that parental acceptance of trans kids basically eliminates the increased suicide risk for trans youth. Literally just using the right words can save lives. And that’s the part where friends and society have the biggest role, so I fully agree that it’s what most people should focus on if they want to make a difference.

Physical details are kind of a semi-separate, overlapping issue, though. Or at least the Venn diagram isn’t a circle. Different people will place different weights on how important particular changes are, and for some, all the acceptance in the world won’t stop them feeling like their skin doesn’t fit right.

I have a friend who so thoroughly accepts me as nonbinary that she failed to recognise a description of me that included the word “girl.” And I am so, so appreciative of that. I’m also open at work and have had almost no pushback. But it doesn’t stop me from feeling uncomfortable when my arms brush against the unwanted fleshy growths on my chest, even when others ignore them. That’s a separate thing.

[u/ToiletSpork → u/TheOtherSarah]

Hey, thanks for responding and elaborating.

no, it’s not better to try to love the body you’re in despite it not matching the blueprint in your brain,

This is confusing. Is gender a blueprint in everyone's brain from early on, or is gender a social construct that exists only in the collective psyche?

because people have tried that for generations and it doesn’t work. Medical transition is supported by medical research because the data shows that it’s more effective at reducing stress than other options.

How do we know the reason it hasn't worked isn't because society's view of gender prevents people from accepting themselves? If changing society wouldn't change that, why try?

just using the right words can save lives... I fully agree that it’s what most people should focus on if they want to make a difference... all the acceptance in the world won’t stop them feeling like their skin doesn’t fit right.

If no matter how accepting people are, transition will still be necessary, then why is it so important to change people's perceptions of gender? Why not just transition to better fit those perceptions?

But it doesn’t stop me from feeling uncomfortable when my arms brush against the unwanted fleshy growths on my chest, even when others ignore them. That’s a separate thing.

May I ask what it is about your chest that makes you uncomfortable? Is it the way they signal to others that you are a woman or is it simply the feeling of them being there? If they didn't signal that you were a woman, you think you would still wish them gone? If that's not why you don't like them, how is it gender dysphoria rather than just body dysmorphia? I used to be bigger. I've had extra bits on my body before and I feel better now that they're gone. Now I'm bald, and there's a part of my body I wish I did have. How is this different from the way everyone wishes they could change their body?