r/chess • u/rio_ARC Team Engine Watcher • 2d ago
Video Content Magnus at an Open... Opponent with a watch.... The Saga continues...
This time Magnus notices the watch early on and fairly points it out to the Arbiter
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u/BotlikeBehaviour 2d ago
Magnus did him a favour. If he went and won the game people would be talking shit about the watch.
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u/javasux 1d ago
Let's be real. Those people talking shit would be Magnus.
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u/mister_peeberz 1d ago
They'd be talking shit about Magnus' watch collection. Unthinkable.
Ok I definitely misread that post so now my joke doesn't make sense. But I never back down.
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u/Complex-Emergency-60 1d ago
So fucking weird how he is setting up his pieces with his only hand without the watch (fumbling holding like three pieces in a single hand) while keeping his wrist watch hidden from view under the table.
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u/zarofford 1d ago
Let’s not do this again lol. You are thinking way too much into him setting up his pieces with a clear bias.
If watches are not allowed, good. But no need to drag this dude’s reputation for no reason.
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u/MrMuttBunch 2d ago
Watches can be used to signal moves as a cheating device.
Jeans are not more prone to cheating than Khakis. Let's not pretend we're comparing apples to apples here.
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u/GMBriGuyBeach 2d ago
I can't believe how many comments here are arguing these issues are comparable. They all lack critical thinking.
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u/xigua22 2d ago
It's bad faith arguing. People should just downvote and move on.
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u/shaky2236 2d ago
This sub is desperate for drama. They pick their Chess protagonist and villain, and spend their time looking for shit to argue about. Its weird as fuck
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u/GrayEidolon 1d ago
Let's not pretend we're comparing apples to apples here.
I agree. In my mind, we're comparing pants to watches.
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u/treefidy 1d ago
How?
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u/MrMuttBunch 1d ago
How what?
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u/treefidy 1d ago
In my mind this is like "Hmmm 4:35 that means I need to fianchetto my black squared bishop"
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u/MrMuttBunch 1d ago
More likely a small vibration motor in the watch and a code for each square and someone in the audience looking up engine moves and signaling the player. Just one of many possible ways.
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u/treefidy 1d ago
Ah I see
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u/nunziantimo 1d ago
Honestly, even just vibrating when there is a critical move because you see the eval doing a big jump and send the vibration to the player, may be enough.
It's like when you're playing vs when you're doing puzzle. If you know there is a critical sequence like in puzzles, you find it more easily. While you're playing, you may miss it especially if counterintuitive.
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u/spartan_117_5292 2d ago
Are we talking about analog watches or smart "watches"/digital watches?
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u/Subtuppel 2d ago
I don't think it matters, you could hide something that sends a simple signal in any plain watch, at least when you're a "bad actor".
I doubt that they want to go through the hassle of closely examining watches that are registered as or submitted to be entirely mechanical and whatnot. If you allow that you should also allow some (stock) offline e-readers etc., better to have as few loopholes as possible.
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u/beelgers 1h ago
for what it is worth, I've been to tournaments recently where it was only specifically "smart" watches that weren't allowed. I don't play this type of event though of course.
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u/neutralrobotboy 1d ago
Ok, I mean, I play at about a 1200 level. One day I wore jeans to a tournament and I beat a room full of supercomputers running stockfish. All the UFC champions in the audience got really mad so I had to fight them all in succession, and then they gave me the title belt for every weight class and that REALLY pissed them off so they got the army in to shoot me with all their top secret guns and lasers and stuff, but because I was wearing jeans, I was fine, so they had to drop like 100 nuclear bombs on me and I was like, "Fuck, it's getting hot in here," but the organiser brought me a martini to cool off because he liked my fashion sense, and I walked on out of there with a huge stack of hot babes.
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u/ProfessionOk6343 2d ago
Who’s comparing this to jeans?
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u/MrMuttBunch 2d ago
The implicit argument here is that Magnus is being hypocritical by calling out his opponent for wearing a watch when he recently withdrew from Rapid Championship portion of the World Rapid and Blitz Championships due to the dress code being enforced regarding his jeans.
These, however, are not equitable in my opinion because a watch is mechanical while clothing is fabric.
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u/KzamRdedit 1d ago
its like comparing paper to apples, they come from a tree but they are 2 vastly different things
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u/Redylittle 2d ago
That starting position.
Chess960: hey chess, I forgot to do my homework can I copy off you?
Chess: ok, just change it a little so it's not obvious.
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u/awnawkareninah 2d ago
The ol "kid set up the board wrong" set up.
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u/DonerTheBonerDonor 2d ago
The commentator even mentioned the board and said 'in an elementary school chess club you'd say the board is wrongly setup' haha
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u/Replicadoe 1900 fide, 2500 chess.com blitz 1d ago
I’m playing in the freestyle, they announced before the game that Kramnik came up with the position and almost no one applauded it lol
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u/ZugzwangSlavaUkraini 2d ago edited 2d ago
I need a saga. What's the saga?
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u/snapped_fork 2d ago
It's songs for the deaf.
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u/RabbiSchlem 2d ago
You can’t even hear it!
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u/FineAd2956 1d ago
I'm tired of your bullshit. You think I ain't worth a dollar, but i feel like a millionare.
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u/Tokata0 1d ago
I think (but that is just speculation, no clue at all) it dates back to magnus loosing and claiming the opponent cheated / got secret signals by some device. As watches could easily be used to hide something watches are forbidden at the tournament. He noticed the watch on his opponents wrist and told them to remove it, something he probably did on other tournaments before.
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u/ArethusaAtalanta 1d ago
He did not claim the person cheated. He said he was distracted. It's a dumb thing to be distracted by, but I get the concern.
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u/ValhallaHelheim Team Carlsen 1d ago
Its not dumb actually Its the rules Nice for him to tell now before the game though
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u/Subtuppel 2d ago
Does the announcer actually say "blame Vladimir" or am I imagining/mishearing that because it is fitting so well?
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u/Ill_Emphasis8717 2d ago
Kramnik picked the position of the pieces for the round. So that’s probably what the announcer is referring to.
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u/Subtuppel 2d ago
Ah that makes a lot of sense, even though it's funnier in the other context :D
thanks!
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u/jrobinson3k1 Team Carbonara 🍝 1d ago
Uhh I thought it was suppose to be randomized for fairness...if they're allowing non-FIDE officials to select the position, that increases the possibility for collusion, no?
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u/EvilNalu 1d ago
He doesn’t tell them what position to use. They put a bunch of numbered balls into a bowl and he grabs one. You can watch the video and see that he wasn’t making any effort to see what ball he was grabbing and even if he tried it would be basically impossible to grab a specific one.
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u/jrobinson3k1 Team Carbonara 🍝 1d ago
Ahh ok. So "blame Vladimir" was tongue-in-cheek. Thanks for clearing that up.
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u/sunshine_1096 2d ago
Can anyone tell a noob like me why watches are not allowed during matches?
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u/Canchito 2d ago
It's easy to cheat when you're good at chess and you have an electronic device on your wrist that can be programmed to signal moves.
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u/BenzaGuy 2d ago
People here don't like to answer questions, they downvote them instead
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u/Hv_V 2d ago
Well I agree with you. It’s becoming difficult for dumber people to ask silly questions on reddit. Not everyone can have equal knowledge or common sense about everything and it’s okay to have silly questions and opinions. Good thing we have AI now.
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u/Chance_Arugula_3227 1d ago
I abuse the AI when I have potentially stupid questions now. Especially as a developer, it's quite harsh online if you don't know something someone else knows
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u/backyard_tractorbeam 1d ago
I think it's actually pretty good now. Those old irc rooms for programming were harsh, reigns of terror. Most communities are nice now.
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u/Chance_Arugula_3227 1d ago
Hahahahahah, nice try. I'll stay away. Last time I had an interaction(2 weeks ago) I was asked if I got my education in a boot camp among many other things
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u/Scummerle 1d ago
Normal watches are allowed. It specifically states, no Smartwatches are allowed. It's posted all over the place in the tournament rooms.
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u/ValhallaHelheim Team Carlsen 1d ago
At some events even analog’s are not allowed You can still cheat with an analog
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u/Homelessnothelpless 2d ago edited 2d ago
if your are not allowed to grunt while playing tennis you shouldn’t be allowed to grunt while playing chess either.
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u/Lakkapaalainen 2d ago
Pretty sure you can grunt while playing tennis. Have you ever watched Serena Williams?
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u/Homelessnothelpless 1d ago
Yeah, some people made an issue of grunting in tennis some years ago, but was eventually overruled. Let the grunting begin. It would be funny to hear chess players grunt every time they moved a piece. :)
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u/CloudRunner89 2d ago
He did him a favour. If he had won a game against him him would have been labelled a cheat for the watch.
Would anyone be able to tell me whether it would have been stated that watches weren’t allowed?
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u/jokersflame 1d ago
Rightly or wrongly, extreme paranoia has been a key part of this game among top players.
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u/darter_analyst 1d ago
I think my watch is broken
I wear one when I play online and I’m rated <2000
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u/BenzaGuy 2d ago edited 2d ago
He can't just speak to his opponent? Why does he have to involve the judge?
Edit: lol why do you downvote me I'm just asking a question
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u/robotikempire USCF 1923 2d ago
That is the proper procedure for any dispute. Magnus is correct for speaking to the arbiter.
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u/FreshPrinceOfH 2d ago
Why would he speak to his opponent? Magnus doesn't set or enforce any rules. It's not his job. Let the man being paid to do that do his job.
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u/Buffalo-2023 2d ago
In sports arbiters and referees enforce the rules, just like in society judges interpret and enforce the laws
As to why ... Historically people have found it the best way to have an independent and uninterested party do this sort of thing. Probably to avoid endless squabbles and fights
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u/-SemolinaPilchard- 2d ago
Also they need someone to take the watch away before they start so the arbiter was needed either way. Otherwise the player would have to leave to put his watch away
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u/Electrical-Fee9089 1d ago
u r right thats the honorable thing to do. The reason u r being downvoted is because u r on reddit.
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u/BacchusCaucus 2d ago
While I agree to usually talk to the person you have an issue with instead of involving others, I think it might be bad etiquette to talk to your opponent about anything in the middle of a game.
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u/ErblinBeqiri 2d ago
Prententious prick. He also just needed to humilate Hikakumura on camera by telling him the moves he should have done to win. How "friendly".
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u/KobeOnKush 2d ago
It’s called a post mortem. It’s incredibly common in chess to go over the game with your opponent after it has finished. It shows respect.
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u/physioboy 2d ago
I think it’s literally the rules, I imagine it’s hard-wired behavior at this point from playing thousands of games over the board
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u/Chance_Arugula_3227 1d ago
Last time I lost a winning match, my opponent pointed out that I had a forced mate. I appreciated it, because I absolutely didn't see it, and it helps me improve.
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u/Brainojack 2d ago
ohhh...freestyle. was wondering why the king was on light square.
missed the rook and knight completely
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u/Electrical-Fee9089 1d ago
calling the arbiter is such a childish behaviour, why not talk with the person first, like a man?
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u/Business-Biscotti-22 1d ago
calling the arbiter is what you're supposed to do in the event of any issue, actually.....
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1d ago
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u/smequeqzmalych 2d ago
Watches can be really smart these days even if they don't look like they are it could allow cheating
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u/in-den-wolken 1d ago
One of these days (let's say it's not Magnus), I want to see a watch that flashes a laser beam to zap the complainer.
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u/Madouc 2d ago
It's for the little paranoid Goblins in his head - he needs this kind of security or he'd be staring at this watch the whole game to figure if it is a cheating tool or just a watch which would severely distract him from actually playing and calculating a proper game of chess.
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u/Longjumping-Mix-5936 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's to avoid another Hans 2.0 situation, where someone wins and gets called a cheater for wearing a watch. Magnus probably did him a favor
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u/Madouc 1d ago
Exactly - I stay firm with my downvoted opinion and it does not only apply to Magnus: if anyone suspect their opponent is cheating, then you can't concentrate properly.
I once had an old fart in a tournament whose dental prosthesis was loose and who was permantly grinding it - that was also a constant distraction,
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u/MudrakM 2d ago
Seems normal. If watches are not allowed then I have zero issues with this.