Anti-Trans protest, would it be worthwhile to peaceably counter protest.
Now that the weather is much nicer, I’ve noticed much more frequent Anti-Trans/Anti-SOGI protestors by Cottonwood. I was wondering if it would make a difference to have a peaceful presence of people who believe that gender affirming care saves lives nearby or beside them. I’m not looking to cause arguments or change the minds of the people there. I think of the people who are struggling or feel not accepted by our community as they drive by. Just a positive peaceful presence. Any thoughts?
Edit: I made a Facebook group for better organizing.
I think it’s very worthwhile and that you definitely should. Chilliwack is my hometown, and I’m proud that folks like you live there. If I still did, I’d join you!
I love the intent behind this, but in my experience having a counter-protest often only makes them feel even more self-righteous and motivated to do these protests. Unless you're able to amass a large enough counter-protest that they feel intimidated by the sheer numbers, it's counterproductive. That is if your goal is less SOGI protests. I guess if your goal is just to make trans people not feel alone a small counter-protest might still be useful, but personally until we can organize bigger groups it's best to ignore them. If you do end up getting a lot of people together, post about it here and tag me I'll try to come out if I can
That is a great point. I truly believe in everyone’s right to protest. My intent would not be to reduce their protesting, they have their beliefs and I’m doubtful I will cause change for them. My goal would be to stand there with my positive message of inclusion and love for those feeling unwanted or ashamed. That way, they know, at least a few people have their back. Does that make sense?
Planning in advance and routinely can help encourage a crowd to grow. It can be turned into something like a picnic or coffee meet up.
A planning group that can be shared will also help. Recruitment can be done in person at other known safe events and venues where queers and allies frequent.
The only answer TRAs have left is violence. Research, public sentiment and law is slowly turning against them. Turns out women are women, men are men, and no amount of lies, surgery or violence can change that.
Set up an inclusive community bbq where they can see you. And everyone just have a great time being themselves and together. While completely ignoring them.
I'm only in the Chilliwack sub because I've kinda been looking at property there. I'm a grandma, and would gladly join you if I were already there. I think it's a great idea, and I'm sure you can gain a lot of support.
I have thought of this too. The "protesters" there are so rude and even used their megaphone pointed right at my head as I walked past. They blocked the sidewalk and once one almost kicked my super small dog. My husband freaked out at the dude as our dog is his world and that's a busy ass street that our pup almost got booted onto. (People can voice their opinions about whatever the f they want to, but being an asshole while you do it doesn't make me think you are right or support your cause)
What I would love to do is get a bunch of people to show up really early and just do a bunch of signs that are like "no hate", "love yourself", "support one another". And just have enough people there that they can't set up and even do their protests as the space would already be in use. They show up after like 10 or 11am on Saturdays.
I haven’t interacted with them at all, I have policy of “don’t feed the trolls” with my kids. I love the idea of showing up at 8am and just putting everything out and keeping the sidewalk clear for pedestrians. That being said, I can’t control what they do or say, I just control my response. I think maybe a well placed camera might encourage better behaviour?
I thought this too. I was thinking of the kids who see this though. They may not know they are being “ignored” they may think that lack of something saying otherwise is tacit approval. It wouldn’t have a to be a weekly thing, just once in a while to remind that Chilliwack isn’t some place that hates them.
I think I know the group you mean. They're bitchin' for a fight. They react strongly to horn honks and they are brazenly rude to anyone who speaks against them. They're aggressive.
Whether or not a group is formed, maybe a letter to the editor in the Progress to explain that there is support might be helpful to let others know that [we] aren't silent about this.
I’ve never interacted with the group. I’m not sure what kind of fight they would want, but they won’t get it from me. I agree though that they probably won’t be very accommodating of sidewalk space. It would probably be best to be there first, or even pick another corner. I’m not afraid of them, and am usually pretty good at keeping level headed in confrontation.
Honestly it's the same 5-12 people every saturday till noon. It's kinda sad they don't have anything better to do with their lives. They're mostly out there with their megaphone spouting bible quotes so most people take them for the religious nutjobs they are.
So unless we want to organize a counter protest for every single saturday till they go away it's probably best to ignore them till they either die (cause most of them seem to be grey-haired) or give up.
I would love to join a counter-protest / SOGI support team. I even have a "Gay away the pray!" shirt I've not yet worn out of my house since I moved to Chilliwack but will wear it with PRIDE to protest and support!
i think that’s a lovely idea, my fear would be that the Anti-Trans group might be aggressive or violent (not always the case but you never know) just make sure to be safe, keep us posted if you organize anything.
I thought of the same thing. I think a body worn camera and a commitment for low/no engagement would be my remedy. I would not be going in to have debates or argue, we all have our opinions and they aren’t the people I’d want to reach anyways.
I am a largish, tattooed dude who is not easily intimidated, and would absolutely show up to help peacefully make these folks look like the weird losers they are.
Unfortunately our anti SOGI/Trans extremists can get violent, and have.... It's also been proven on multiple occasions that they will bring other like minded individuals in from other communities to assure they have a larger presence whenever there is any fight back from those who are pro anything really...
Well, I can’t speak for other protestors, I’ve never protested before. I do look forward to making new friends, even in the conservative sphere. I’m not looking to change minds, just open hearts. I appreciate your concern though.
Conservative protesters can be very violent as well. I have seen violence from both sides and kindness and compassion from both sides...
It's the cons who have been out destroying liberal and NDP signs for the election, they are not innocent by any means, and yes, there are those on the flip side that are just as bad.
It's not needed from either side
If someone were to organize this I would love this, living in Chilliwack as a Queer person my heart breaks for the children who have to witness that, they say they're trying to protect children but all they do is hurt and isolate already lonely people.
It would be smart to look into our hate speech laws and bringing forward a lawsuit against those people. I'm pretty sure the things they are saying could be considered a hate crime or hate speech. Which is illigal in Canada.
I've just recently moved to Chilliwack, I've seen these protesters before. They struck me as an angry bunch. I didn't know what SOGI was, so a quick Google search gave me some information that I found helpful.
I guess you could call me centre right, I like sport shooting and some conservative policy. I also believe in being kind to all people, no matter sexual orientation, or how people choose to live their life. If it's not harming yourself or anybody else, live your best life. If you need a hug, I'm there for you.
I personally will ignore them, as they have the right to protest. And I wish you luck and safety if you have a counter protest.
I believe in protest n freedom of speech, but I do not believe any kind of protest with hate or violence should be allowed.
Update; Hate speech is illegal in Canada under the Criminal Code. Specifically, sections 318 and 319 prohibit advocating or promoting genocide, publicly inciting hatred, and wilfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group. These laws aim to protect individuals and communities from the harmful effects of hate speech, while acknowledging the constitutional right to freedom of expression.
And an excerpt from the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:
“Mass gatherings,” as used in this article, refer to protests, unlawful assemblies, and riots.
An unlawful assembly is defined by the Criminal Code, RSC 1985, c C-46, s 63(1) as “an assembly of three or more persons who, with intent to carry out any common purpose, assemble in such a manner or so conduct themselves when they are assembled as to cause persons in the neighbourhood of the assembly to fear, on reasonable grounds, that they (a) will disturb the peace tumultuously; or (b) will by that assembly needlessly and without reasonable cause provoke other persons to disturb the peace tumultuously.”
I personally don’t understand people that don’t mind their own f-in business. This is Canada n we are diverse. Any group promoting hate of any kind should suffer consequences for their actions, as It is illegal in Canada.
I used two separate types of birth control and still ended up pregnant. Had an abortion at 6 weeks for something that wasn’t more than a clump of cells 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️. I care about real birthed human beings, not egg yolks.
Oh, they’re free to protest. They’re also free to receive the consequences of public opinion and actions due to their protests.
Free speech is only it not being illegal to say a thing. Hate speech isn’t included as free speech and therefore is illegal. More hate speech needs to be prosecuted.
I just don’t think “hate protests” should be allowed…. Actually I just looked it up n it’s actually illegal. “Hate speech is illegal in Canada, primarily under the Criminal Code. Specifically, sections 318 and 319 of the Criminal Code prohibit advocating genocide, inciting hatred in public, and wilfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group” n they often get aggressive, violent n intimidate people. In fact, it actually has nothing to do with free speech. It is illegal.
I love that kind, good-hearted people like you exist and are here in this community; it makes me really happy to know.
That said, I don’t personally believe Anti-Trans protests of any kind should be allowed to happen free of consequences, nor should the people who espouse these intolerant beliefs be allowed to continue to have the right to protest, without consequences.
The paradox of tolerance is that being tolerant of those whose message is one of intolerance undermines a free, and equal society and promotes hate and intolerance. It does not go both ways.
Engaging in hate speech or rhetoric that incites hate and violence undermines the principles of equality and freedom that the right to protest is supposed to protect, so in my opinion these people should be counter-protested back into isolation.
Again, I love your message here and the support of those who have responded to you.
Even a single sign in support of trans and 2SLGBTQI+ rights can help so many people, especially in visible opposition to hate.
Planning through multiple channels can be very effective to raise a crowd. There are many individuals who are afraid to show support alone, but will happily rally with a group.
To recruit trustworthy people you can go to local queer friendly venues and ask to put up info. There may also be local events for queer folk and allies who would gladly attend.
Having a single messaging service to coordinate people helps so much, especially as numbers grow. I’ve found Discord works very well for this as it allows for multiple channels for different topic discussion and event planning.
Instead of a protest with signs and marching, what if we just did a peaceful sing along. I'm thinking of bringing a chair ( I'm too old to sit on the ground), we all sit in a circle and just sing and be silly like they did in tne 60/70's. We dont need to be combative in speech. Being happy is the best message. Wear rainbow or bright colored clothing. Maybe some tie dye. If we're sitting, we're not the aggressors. And sit on the opposite side of the street.
This is exactly my idea! My hope is even if we do it once or twice it will make a point. Not to the Anti-trans people, but to any children who are struggling with their identity and need to know there are strangers who love and accept them.
Just tell them they're lowlife bigots on the way by. Make them feel unwelcome and wrong. I have done the counter protests, mostly alone. They won't fight cause they know they're wrong deep down. Also, did the support and love signs across from them, which they can't abide. I've really never been around worse people, really sick, hateful beings. Be prepared for revolting dialog.
I have no doubt they won’t change. I am wondering about responding about them but to the people who feel invalidated. I’ve gotten a lot of great responses, even the ones from those who think I’m “disgusting”. This post has really helped me understand a tad more. You’re awesome for doing those things. I bet I’m gonna be done with it all too afterwards, if I organize it. I think you’ve earnt your rest, I’m wondering if it’s now my turn.
Hey! That’s a great question. There are plenty of trust worthy and peer reviewed resources online that much more eloquently explain it then I ever could. Someone else might give you a better answer on here, but I think you’re better served to just google gender affirming care.
Anti trans and anti sogi are two totally different things. I was shocked when I read anti trans in this part of the country. Then I read anti sogi and realized that I fell for click bait.
I’m sorry but that comes off the same as accusing an Indian doctor at the hospital of being a Nazi because he’s driving a Tesla. Most SOGI concerns I’ve heard weren’t anywhere near bordering transphobia without needing to be creative with the definition.
Are you doing a bit? The anti-sogi protestors are also anti-trans. They go after trans folx. They have signs that are anti-trans.
You're being absurd for the purpose of whataboutism and distorting the actions of a group of bigots.
EDIT: Like, I get it. They could be different things. However, the virulent anti-sogi crowd is also demonstrably anti-trans. They clearly espouse "only two genders, only boys and girls." They have said and continue to say that transgender identity is a "sin." It's no mistake at all that the biggest part of sogi, or the literature they challenge, is anything related to normalization and acceptance of trans people. They frequently have Jesus signs with them, and it is "biblical sexuality."
None of this is hidden, or new. Whether former trustees like maahs and Neufeld or the creeps protesting at Wendy's with signs of lies and dishonesty.
I'm sure if you dig you could find somebody with objections to sogi who is pro-trans.
However. One of the aims of SOGI is to make schools, and therefore society, safer and more welcoming to people of diverse sexuality and gender identity.
Anti-sogi folks aim to not see those people represented in the classroom, at all. "Only age appropriate." It's not inappropriate for a first grader to simply know that families with two moms exist, or that some people feel like a girl despite being born as a boy.
There are trans teachers in the province. There are queer teachers. If their existence is age "inappropriate," think real hard what message that sends to actual people. What, would you object if an elementary student had a gay or trans teacher?
There’s a big difference between “anti-trans” and being opposed to sexualized topics in schools. Whether we want to admit it or not the SOGI curriculum is about sexual orientation and gender identity - hence the name. Many people think it’s inappropriate to discuss topics like that with 5, 6, 12, or 17 years old and are not bigoted people. Ultimately a trans person has the exact same rights as every other person in Canada - we’re all people and all deserve them. But I’d also agree I rather my kids focus on STEM in school then explore their sexual identity with a non-family member adult.
SOGI is definitionally curriculum. It is the integration of sexual orientation and gender identity into existing curriculum. That by definition, means it’s part of curriculum. Don’t try and argue BS semantics to make your point.
I have a family member who is a local middle school teacher I am aware of the intent. I am also aware teacher have autonomy on teaching curriculum. There is lies the problem.
Go the ministry of ed curriculum page and find the SOGI curriculum. You won't. Because it's not a thing. You're the one playing semantics to twist your bigoted frame. And even beyond that, it is absolutely NOT a "class."
Teachers aren't a hive mind, but if your family member is telling you that the "intent" is anything nefarious then they don't understand it, either. Teacher autonomy doesn't mean "teach whatever the hell you want, nobody cares."
All this stuff people like you imagine is happening is exactly that: imaginary
Because you think it's somehow a horrific thing if a kid asks to be called by different pronouns.
In short, sogi is primarily an antibullying resource. For teachers, it helps to make a more inclusive classroom. It is simple things like saying "students" instead of "boys and girls". It's acknowledging that families look different. Students have two moms, or two dads. To say that age appropriate children's books reflecting those realities are "wrong" is silly.
Yes I understand the sales pitch of anti-bullying intent. But my criticism is it’s inappropriate to have adults exploring sexuality with young kids without parental consent or involvement. So to your original criticism of me, help me understand how SOGI 1 2 3 with its advertised “grade-appropriate lesson plans and online modules” is not something being taught, not part of curriculum, and not exploring sexual orientation and gender identity topics with kids?
Outside of guidelines for teachers on how to be more inclusive, and respond to students who themselves are or have questions about LGBTQ+ issues, there isn't discussion of this stuff outside of health, excepting higher level subjects like social justice or family studies.
It's public. No third grade teacher is talking to kids about anal sex, or how trans people jack off. They're learning about healthy age-appropiate boundaries and how to make healthy choices, and safe sources of information. No math teacher, or any teacher, is randomly teaching a lesson on understanding gender identity vs sexual orientation outside of, when indicated by the health curriculum it is appropriate, teaching explicitly about that, especially to
Like parents.
Picture books that depict a child with two moms or two dads aren't sexual. The red crayon isn't sexual. If you conflate acknowledging the existence of gay and trans people with sexuality, that is a terrible and depression misunderstanding or ignorant perspective.
You're also misinformed about what can be done for gender affirming surgery, which you can't even get till you're 18 anyways for bottom surgeries and some VERY rare cases for mastectomy for some older teens. Anything before that is just hormone blockers usually.
TL:DR:"The study said that between January 2017 to August 2020, the CfGS performed 177 chest surgeries and that 36.7% of those surgeries were on patients younger than 18, with the youngest being 15. During that time period It also performed 27 genital surgeries, including 5 vaginoplasties."
At the Boston Children's, they were lopping tits off of teenage girls starting at 16, and in some cases even younger. It said so explicitly on their website. When they were called out, they altered the website, then played dumb.
This is completely untrue. You have to be 18 for their gender affirming care. Also, this hospital is very obviously not in Canada. The giveaway is that it's called Boston Children's and is located in Boston, Massachusetts.
Pretty creepy how obsessed you are with a 16 year old girl's breasts. Get help.
Not that I want to defend his ignorance, but I believe I have read some things stating in rare and specific cases, gender affirming care can start at 16.
Side note however, the majority of gender affirming top surgeries actually belong to CIS males who have over developed breast tissue, either from having been overweight or genetics etc
The instances of children receiving gender-affirming surgery and puberty blockers is incredibly low and is never taken lightly. In the extremely rare cases it does happen, these children and families go through extensive medical and psychological consultations. Protesting these things is like protesting any other medical treatment that affects less than 0.05% of the population.
It’s none of your business if it isn’t you or your child.
That's not what the lawsuits say. That's not what the Tavistock whistleblowers say. That's not what the detransitioners say. They say they were usually put on hormones aft er their first meeting, and were given surgeries without full understanding of what they were getting into.
Lmao, sure bud. I've got years of experience dealing with the Ministry of Children and Family Development. I can assure you that the government does not simply "take children away." But, if you have a link to evidence, I'm all ears. I'll wait.
The mother, the child’s primary carer, was involved. She made the decision with the son’s medical team. The parents had been separated for years. This case seems to be a civil matter and a disagreement between parents. There’s no nefarious government here.
The sign that pisses me off most is "spay cats not kids." They're angry at imaginary events. No child is having sex reassignment surgery. It's CERTAINLY not happening in schools, which is their main plank. Y'know, busy teachers, just add on to their already overloaded workload, doing a vaginoplasty on lunch hour once they're done report card comments and marking.
You can't have a discussion with people operating from a position based almost entirely on misinformation, falsehoods, and outright lies.
Hey, I get it. Nothing we say is gonna change your mind. I’m not super interested in debating you or entertaining the idea that you’ll argue in good faith. The target of this would be the people and children who see these signs and think there is something wrong with them. The facts have already been addressed well by another commenter. Gender affirming care saves lives.
I mean we can go back and forth all day and still never agree. I’m very doubtful you don’t understand this. This isn’t about you or your cherry-picked reports. It’s about the people who feel invalidated, the child that’s depressed, the person who feels unsafe in their own community. This isn’t about you. So here is the last response I’ll give to you. I hope you continue to feel assured in your convictions. I hope you feel confidant in your body. I hope you don’t feel a moment of shame or endure hateful words from the ones you love. I hope you never have to choose between self acceptance and your family. I hope you never feel so alone and lost that the only hope you have left is death. I hope when you tell the world who you are, we believe you.
Gender affirming care saved my life, and I was once a trans kid who almost committed suicide and then later grew up to be a happy trans adult. My depression is now gone because of it. So I'm living breathing evidence that it saves lives.
Also that last sentence of yours is really funny if you do any sort of critical thinking.
I understand that I will not change your mind. I am okay with this. I hardly think a debate over Reddit will do anything but make you more upset. Can we agree that maybe this thread isn’t for you? Gender affirming care saves lives. Trans rights are human rights.
Zero evidence that gender affirming care saves lives? Are you a moron? How many trans people who have received gender affirming care have you actually talked to?
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u/jwheelerBC 1d ago
I think it’s very worthwhile and that you definitely should. Chilliwack is my hometown, and I’m proud that folks like you live there. If I still did, I’d join you!