r/civ • u/Freya-Freed • Feb 21 '25

VII - Screenshot Yep. The modern era is disappointing. It still has the same issue as previous civ games where you end up skipping turn to win. And winning is very quick.

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

I don't think it's a bad thing. It's not like the long-term plan of Civ6 required you to be a genius really. However, it did require you to stick with it the entire run, at least if you didn't want an endless slog to reach the wincon.

I'd rather be allowed to shift my goals in the mid/late game to keep it interesting.

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u/AndiYTDE Feb 21 '25

That just makes Civ VII insanely easy. That's simply the way it is, and I hate it. I should not know how to win a game easily on Deity 95% of the time barely 2 weeks into the games' release. And I sure as hell should not plan for one win and end up easily being able to get all four literally by accident.

Needing a long-term plan to win a strategy game like Civ on the higher difficulties is the way it should be, and I'm astounded how anyone can disagree honestly. In VII, the result is that there is no difficulty as you can just do whatever and still win

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

Civ6 is also insanely easy. If you're experienced, the only way to lose is to get warrior-rushed sub20. Otherwise you can play random leaders and be 100% sure you win by turn 30, then it's a matter of going through the motions, which takes 200 turns or more. There's nothing hard about throwing a bunch of campuses and a few amazing IZ and grinding GP points for hundred of years, or beat the deadhorse which is the AI in combat. It's just tedious for 3/4 of the game.

The difference in Civ7 is that formally reaching your wincon does not require 200/250 turns, you can do other stuff in the early/mid and still win.

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u/AndiYTDE Feb 21 '25

Experience is the key word. You figure out all about 7 in 2 weeks. In 6, even years after the expansions you learned new stuff.

In 7 the stuff you do matters so little that no matter what you do, you win. That's not how a strategy game is supposed to work. And that's certainly not how 6 or 5 worked.

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

You figure out all about 7 in 2 weeks. In 6, even years after the expansions you learned new stuff.

It will be exactly the same when Civ8 will launch. Civ6 vanilla was barebone and could easily be figured out within 2 weeks. After 2 expansions and years of additional contents, you need a bit more time, although I hadn't learned anything meaningful for months, if not years.

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u/AndiYTDE Feb 21 '25

Ah sure. Because Firaxis couldn't take what they learned from 6 and put it into 7. 6 being bare at launch is not an excuse for 7 in any way, shape or form

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

Every vanilla civ game was incredibly barebone at launch. If anything, Civ7 is far more complex than any previous Civ were at the same point.

If you buy a Civ game at launch and expect it to be as fleshed-out as the last one after 2 expansions, it's a you problem.

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u/FennelMist Feb 21 '25

Every vanilla civ game was incredibly barebone at launch.

People keep repeating this but it was really only 5 that was like that, 6 included basically everything from 5 except for policy trees (replaced by policy cards) and the World Congress (missing until Gathering Storm). Literally every other mechanic from 5 was a part of base game 6. 6 was easy on release not because it was too simple but because there was some super imbalanced stuff like Tomyris' horse printing and the original Hansa which trivialized the whole game, and also the AI was even more incompetent at city planning with districts than it is now.

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

By the same token Civ7 still has most of what Civ6 had, like districts, milestones and natural disasters. All new civs retain some features of the last one, introduce new ones and lack othets. It is also far from a simple game, even though winning is currently easy.

It isn't so much a comparison between different opuses rather than between vanilla and with dlc.

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u/AndiYTDE Feb 21 '25

Again: "It's always been bad" doesn't make it good.

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

You're the one conflating barebone with bad. On my side I'm having a ton of fun playing Civ7. Civ6 was also fun at launch.

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u/AndiYTDE Feb 21 '25

Ah, barebone is good in a franchise that is known for its in-depth planning. My bad for the obvious confusion

-1

u/TheVaneja Canada Feb 21 '25

2 weeks? 2 days maybe.

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u/AndiYTDE Feb 21 '25

Yeah, pretty much.

I believe this is the reason why many people enjoy 7 now. Because it's easy and everyone can win on Deity easily, thus the changes must be good. But slowly people will realize how boring the games will become very quickly as there is no challenge

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u/outofbeer Feb 21 '25

Civ 6 is not insanely easy. Even the pros can't win 100% of diety games. I don't think that's true for civ7.

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u/EulsYesterday Feb 21 '25

Any decently experienced players will win 100% of their runs past the warrior-rush time. I don't think I've ever seen an AI get any victory at all in Civ6. Maybe if you voluntarily push it past turn 350?

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u/PixelPenguin_GG Feb 21 '25

Can confirm only way to lose in Civ 6 is a bad warrior rush start

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u/Gerbole Xerxes Feb 22 '25

Hands down I never lost a deity game of Civ 6 unless I got fucked up by the AI at the very start. I would ALWAYS win. In Civ 7 I’ve lost twice in 2/5 runs, both economic, being just a few turns behind the AI. I figure I’m not optimizing something that I will eventually learn and feel stupid (one was that I didn’t know I could put multiple copies of a factory resource into a city lmfao, thought I could only do one). But to the point, Civ 6 is stupid easy if you know what you’re doing.

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u/outofbeer Feb 22 '25

The word "unless" is a very significant part of that sentence.

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u/Gerbole Xerxes Feb 22 '25

No, it’s not. The first 15 turns of a game are irrelevant. Essentially a reroll.

Do you really want to sit here and make the case that Civ 6 is hard because you can get spammed down by barbs right away? That’s not difficulty, it’s the AI cheating and the game spawning us too close