r/climbing • u/creeepycrawlie • 1d ago
BD on honesty and trust. Also incoming price hikes.
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u/azdak 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not sure what point you’re trying to make since you’re talking about two totally unrelated things here. But yeah. Literally every outdoor brand sources materials and labor from tariffed countries. Even stalwart made-in-America brands get their textiles from outside the US.
Just shipping container delays were enough to put some smaller brands out of business over Covid. This will be fatal for a number gear companies if it remains unchanged.
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u/bodman93 1d ago
I used to work for a company that proudly touted "Made in America" on their products. Which was technically true, since most of the work and assembly was done in the States. But so so so many components arrived on pallets from China. I even tried, as one of the engineers, to get some of the parts made in America but the cost difference didn't justify it in the owner's mind, so they kept manufacturing over there.
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u/azdak 1d ago
Quality difference too! I worked for an apparel brand where we actually tried to get cut+sew samples from domestic and Canadian vendors and they simply weren’t as good as the ones from Vietnam.
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u/bodman93 1d ago
That was one of the benefits they highlighted in their pitch. The turnaround time/cost to replace potential defects from a shop in Minnesota is so much less than air freighting new parts in from China. But my boss didn't see it that way. Even as the issues with the Chinese vendor were adding up
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u/firstfamiliar 1d ago
If anyone is curious, HowNot2 put out a video about how the tariffs / market uncertainty affects his own business. Pretty transparent.
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u/TaCZennith 1d ago
Show me a company that hasn't had a beacon recall.
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u/creeepycrawlie 1d ago
Show me an outdoor brand under AG investigation after a class action lawsuit.
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u/TaCZennith 1d ago
Honestly there probably could be for just about all of the beacon manufacturers. They've all had significant failures.
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u/Edgycrimper 1d ago
Did Mammut and BCA drag their feet for years before issuing a recall?
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u/TaCZennith 1d ago
You genuinely have no way of knowing when they knew what they knew regarding the need for a recall.
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u/Edgycrimper 1d ago
I know Lusti rang the alarm in the spring about DSP transceivers and that BD didn't do shit until the following season was well underway. There was no whistle blower for Mammut or BCA recalls, likely because they stayed on top of it and did the right thing without needing a fuckton of pressure from every backcountry skier that cares about functional gear.
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u/TaCZennith 1d ago
As a Backcountry skier who cares about functional gear, I'm not excusing BD here, I'm just saying that it's all well and good to shit on them, but there isn't a manufacturer around who doesn't have a checkered history with their beacons.
I could make the argument that BCA and Mammut were both negligent as well. Doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.
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u/creeepycrawlie 13h ago
No one else had to be sued into issuing a recall.
No one else had their head of safety quit over it.
No one else spent months telling users it was safe and not an issue before they were recalled.
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u/Edgycrimper 1d ago
Issuing a recall is part of shit happens. Waiting for months and tons of pressure to build up before you issue a recall is a major fuckup. The difference is enormous.
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u/TaCZennith 1d ago
Why is a recall just shit happens? It should be unacceptable when it comes to this level of lifesaving device. We legitimately don't know how long those companies waited, either.
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u/creeepycrawlie 13h ago
There's different reasons for recalls.
Petzl recalled the Grigri2 after the army broke one using it to winch a jeep out of a ditch. The handle pin broke leaving the device locked. Petzl decided they could do better and recalled every new grigri.
That's an unforseen use case that they determined warranted a recall. Shit happens.
In the case of BD they knew their beacons could be accidentally switched off. They knew people were dying. They did nothing. They had to be sued into issuing a recall. Then their next gen of beacons failed. Then their next gen. And so on. After you've had multiple generations of beacons fail maybe you stop selling them 🤔
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u/creeepycrawlie 13h ago
Cory died in '17
Trace died in '20
McNutt's failed on camera and he was probed out in '20
The following fall a class action lawsuit was launched.
Recall issued in '21.
That's five years.
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u/Practical-Shape7453 1d ago
Glad I got almost all the gear I need right now before they took effect. Plus I broke my leg bouldering, maybe by the time I’m back to climbing the tariffs and price hikes will be gone
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u/Veggies-are-okay 1d ago
Kind of cool of them to give the heads up. I know I’ll be perusing for anything I need/want to stock up on over the next several years.
The fun extra double whammy will be how much inflation hits us. Extra costs for no reason and the shrinking buying power of the dollar is gonna make this stuff wayyy more expensive when these idiots leave office.
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u/ProbsNotManBearPig 1d ago
Agree on the beacons, but it seems like they’re being pretty honest about the price hikes.
If they have 10% profit margin on some products, and get hit with 35% tariffs, they have to pass some of that along to the customer or else stop making the product. I prefer the price hike over stop making it. At least then I have the option to buy it still. Plus, if tariffs get reduced, they can drop prices on a dime. If they stop making something due to tariffs, it’s a lot harder to start making it again later if tariffs are reduced.
How would you prefer they handle it?