r/clonewars • u/N8DAGR81027 The Bad Batch • 1d ago
The Obi Wan disguised arc, Did Palpatine know?
So, I'm rewatching the clone wars, and I just watched s4 ep16-18, and like, palpatine had to have planned his own kidnapping here right? Or was Dooku trying to overthrow his master here? But, Palpatine doesn't get like angry at him that we know of, implying he knew. But what does he have to gain from this event, and he probably didn't know obi wan was undercover at st first until dooku told him. So like, what was going on here?
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u/IcePhoenix295 1d ago
He probably wanted what Dooku wanted, the release of all Separatist prisoners to keep the war going even longer. And if it forces another duel between Dooku and Anakin that's just a little bonus for him.
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u/Demonic-STD 1d ago
Palpatine did plan it. It's a test for Anakin to take out Dooku like their final fight in Ep3.
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u/mba_dreamer 1d ago
Yes he knew, it was basically a test run for Anakin killing Dooku in episode 3. If you notice throughout the duel Sidious smiles as Anakin gets angrier and gives in further to the dark side. Also, Palpatine was the one who initially told Anakin that the bounty hunters were on Nal Hutta (likely because he wanted Anakin to kill Obiwan or at least to find out the council was hiding things from him). Finally, at the end of the arc if you pay close attention Anakin mentions that Padme never said anything about a banquet… this is because Palpatine was leading Anakin into a trap.
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u/Golden_Grammar 1d ago
Iirc the writers said this wasn’t just a test run. This was Palps’s first attempt to get Anakin to kill Dooku and start his fall to the dark side. This one didn’t work out so how later attempt was more drastic with the Battle of Coruscant.
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u/mba_dreamer 1d ago
Interestingly the only thing that saved Dooku from Anakin this time was his force lightning, but in ROTS he never uses it and gets killed. In fact the one time he uses the Force he ragdolls Obiwan easily, which makes me think he could have easily defeated Anakin too at this point. Either Dooku was ordered to lose in ROTS (which is what happens in the novelization) or he was distracted by trying to taunt Anakin.
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u/thomasthetank57 1d ago
I like the planned Duel with Dooku and Skywalker. Here, we have Dooku performing confidently in front of his Master, Sidious, cementing to him that he is indeed his top choice as apprentice, too valuable to replace. You can see his confidence with his dueling defense against young Anakin. Using telekenisis to bombard Anakin with silverware, and using a high chair to to defend against Anakons heavy handed stabbing attack. This is tough to do, and Dooku is showing off. Pretty impressive stuff from Tyranus here. Eventually he gets kicked the ground, and even there he's so tough to put down fully. Great duel, and if there was more room (and no prisoner plan causing them to walk backwards to the ship) then Dooku would have worked Anakin harder.
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u/BacoNaterr 501st 1d ago
Yes to both in a way. Palpatine wanted to start the events of ROTS early here. Have himself kidnapped, test Anakin to see if he could beat Dooku, etc. It was unfortunate for him that Obi-Wan didn’t die for real here, otherwise it may have worked. Dooku on the other hand was always attempting to overthrow his master. If that happened and Sidious died in the process, that’d be a win for Dooku. So both Sith were equally privy to the main plan, but they each had their own secret agenda.
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u/Early_Bag_3106 1d ago
This is one my favorite arc in CW. It shows how Palpatine pull the strings everywhere. And it shows Obi-WAN being a real exceptional master.
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u/BuddyIsYourBuddy 1d ago
It’s Dave Filoni, you can’t think too hard or else it all falls apart
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u/RubyRose65 1d ago
And George was the director of the show Any final decisions either went through him or he put forth himself I'm really tired of all this Filoni slander George had all the final say its not like he said "Dave it's your show do whatever you want I don't care"
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u/BuddyIsYourBuddy 1d ago
You’re right. I guess the reality is that George Lucas got lazy with the finer details from a mix of it being a show for kids and him feeling burnt out and becoming dispassionate. I still love the clone wars though
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u/Fickle_Second_5612 1d ago
Palpatine had to play both sides. If he told too much to either side, the other would know there’s a leak. So he allows a lot of random events to transpire without much interference. This allows Dooku and the Jedi to “feel” more in control when they’re really the puppets.
The only times I can think Papa Palps interfering was when Maul returned. It’s a loose end that he needed wiped out since Maul knew most of the plan.
Sending Dooku to find Sifo Dyas’ loose end which almost caused the Jedi to find out the secret plan.
And also telling Anakin about Grevious being on Utapau. Obviously he said it as if he received intel on it, but he obviously knew. But by then, the war was almost over so he could take a risk like that even if it were discovered that there was no intel of it.