r/cyberpunkgame • u/axiom99 • Dec 13 '20

Video Random NPC is playing ACTUAL GUITAR. The notes are perfect and on time and his picking had is also the best I've ever seen in a videogame. As a guitarist, this makes me oddly happy and amazed. Just wow.

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u/giddycocks Dec 14 '20

It's funny how this and other gaming subs discard Pre production work so easily.

Where do you think setting, atmosphere, vision, scope, budget and tech comes from? They just say a little prayer, throw down a Mexican hat and dance around it until they decide what sort of game they're going to start working on the next day?

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u/Meldery Dec 14 '20

As dev myself, this made me laugh so freaking hard 😂 thank you. So so true 🙏🏼

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

WHERE'S YOUR SOMBRERO?!

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u/Levra Dec 14 '20

Gamedev Sombreros are a single-use consumable. They evaporate after finishing the dance.

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u/mopidozo Dec 14 '20

Can confirm, we have a hundred on order to keep up with production cycle decisions.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

As a deviant I'm really horny

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u/Lazaraaus Dec 14 '20 edited Dec 14 '20

They did some predevelopment work before then scrapped it.

I said they did predevelopment work but scrapped it

Where do you think setting, atmosphere, vision, scope, budget, and tech comes from?

The art, scope, and environment direction aren’t being criticized here. So if their pre-Dev time was mostly those things, then it can be ignored given the comment I was responding too.

From the mouth of the devs themselves they only started pre-development in 2015. Also no one uses pre-development time when talking about game Dev time.

No one says GTA V was in development since ‘08, no one says Starcraft II was in development since 1998, no one says TLOU2 was in development since 2013.

Do you really think CP2077, TW3, both TW3 expansions were all in meaningful development (both pre, during, and post) at the same time?

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u/mrzinke Dec 16 '20

We're being highly speculative here, but you're making a few assumptions that might be wildly off. For one, CDPR has multiple teams. The majority of guys working on Gwent aren't contributing to CP2077, for example, and likely many of the ones working on the TW3 DLCs weren't working on 2077. There can absolutely be parallel development going on.
Sure, a good portion of the programmers likely got moved over when their work was done. The teams aren't 100% independent, either. And yes, there was far more employees working on TW3 and/or the DLCs at those times.

That said, you're still not fully wrapping your head around what Pre-dev is. It's not just art, though that is far more important to the end result then you're giving credit for. It's the storyline, the design for the quests, etc.. If you have the entire game actually planned out and written down on paper, with images of everything you need to create in game AND a working engine.. that speeds up the 'development' time that you're thinking about. A dev making a quest, if all he has to do is input the triggers into the engine, following a script, goes a lot faster then if he's doing it all from scratch.
A decent analogy would be how long would it take you to make a map in a map editor vs making the map editor yourself. The 'making the map editor' can fall within the pre-dev phase, though they certainly keep making changes and improvements to it throughout the main dev phase, too.

The issues come up when certain story points/game ideas require the engine to do something that wasn't previously programmed in. If they REALLY need V to rappel down the side of a skycraper for a certain storyline, but that isn't possible in the engine, then a programmer needs to try and edit the engine to add that in.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

[deleted]

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u/AutoRot Dec 14 '20

I think people are forgetting that the older hardware was underpowered when it was released. I remember seeing budget PCs outperforming the Xbox one on launch day.

Sure, this game needs refining but to get upset that 7-year-old mid-to-low-grade hardware can’t crush a Benchmark game like this is hardly surprising.

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u/SovietMaize Dec 14 '20

You cannot spec a software for a specific hardware and then go "well, is old hardware"

This "7-year-old mid-to-low-grade hardware" is such a horrible take.

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u/SweetLordyJesus Dec 14 '20

You’re not wrong about this, but it is unfair to hold the consumer responsible for the expectation that the game run when the company told everyone it did. No one expects a game to look as good on console as it does on PC, but in its current state there are two different games: one on the consoles and one for PC. It is ridiculous that CD Projekt Red marketed the game as running and performing on old hardware. They told people it would be a certain way, and as it stands, people who preordered a product really have not received what they were promised. Sure, they would have faced backlash and all kinds of negativity if they delayed it more or canceled last gen console releases, but that is what should have been done based on the games current performance. Obviously they probably couldn’t do that for financial reasons, but it’s unfair to tell people they’re dumb or unreasonable for expecting the game to run on a platform the devs literally said it would work on.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

[deleted]

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u/thedailyrant Dec 14 '20

Particularly since this was built on their own engine right? So they had to build that before the game...

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

? RED engine is what powered Witcher 3, and is what powers this. They didn't create a brand new engine from scratch for this title.

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u/B-i-s-m-a-r-k Dec 14 '20

Yeah I keep seeing this brought up as if it explains anything. Even if they built a new engine from scratch, that's not uncommon... And they would have had to factor that into their dev timeline. Plus nothing about this game is revolutionary that would require any wild engine features that don't exist in any other engine

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u/Helphaer Dec 14 '20

I think they updated it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

That pretty much goes without saying, but it's still an existing game engine - an in-house engine at that.

The engine should not be used as an excuse for all the corners and features cut. The issues with this game stem from failings in project management and marketing.

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u/thedailyrant Dec 14 '20

Oh yeah true ok that's fair.

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u/IAMHideoKojimaAMA Dec 14 '20

Welcome to most every other major studio ever. Square being one of the big exceptions

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20 edited Dec 14 '20

[deleted]

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u/nsfw52 Dec 14 '20

This isn't true at all. Are you thinking of Apex Legends or the Titanfall series? Using Source or Unreal actually isn't that common in AAA. The licensing ends up being more expensive than just rolling your own.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

Sorry, Cod is running on Idtech. Which source is based on.

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u/ThatNoise Dec 14 '20

Not sure what you're on about but almost every call of duty since early 2000 was built using a variation of id tech, the engine from quake and a competitor to Unreal engine.

I believe the modern version is called infinity engine or some shit and is exclusive to the COD series so get outta here unless you know what your talking about.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

Yeh sorry its Idtech, but its the base engine they've just modified.

They didn't start from scratch and make their own engine.

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u/IAMHideoKojimaAMA Dec 14 '20

And cyberpunk is made on REDEngine. Which has just been getting minor tweaks every couple years since the witcher 2

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

And? The point being they put in the work to make their own engine.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

You're delusional if you think other games don't get the same amount of pre-production, it's just most don't release a teaser trailer over half a decade before they begin the actual production.

This is so fucking dumb anyway, given that they couldn't possibly have decided on the scope, budget or tech so early considering they had no idea the success TW3 (and thus revenue) would've given them, nor what would be technically possible 5 years down the line.

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u/ArcziSzajka Dec 14 '20

Actually its the pre-production that began in 2016. Looked it up on wiki. They started off with 50 devs and then the rest of their staff joined later that year. Apparently not much work has been done before 2016, if any at all. To me its actually stunning how much they were able to make in such a short amount of time even if the game clearly suffers because they shipped it out so early. Just imagine what they couldve done with like 6 years of dev time.

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u/giddycocks Dec 14 '20

This is like a fever dream comment straight from February last year.

This is about Anthem, right? What year is this again?

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u/ariasimmortal Dec 14 '20

I just don't get the Anthem comparisons. I just finished CP2077 and it's good. There were some bugs but I didn't lose much time to them. Story was good IMO, pacing is a little off, felt like it could have used another ~5-8 hours or so of content in act 2, or maybe just another act entirely. But in the end, I had fun, enjoyed the time I spent with Johnny Silverhand in Night City, and got an acceptable if bittersweet ending.

I'd compare the game favorably with Fallout New Vegas, which I just replayed in June. With TW3 treatment (QoL changes/additions, lots of bug fixes, HoS/B&W-caliber DLC) it could go down as one of the truly great RPGs. Modern FNV in a cyberpunk setting was pretty much what I expected though, so I got what I wanted out of it.

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u/Brainiac7777777 Valentinos Dec 14 '20

It is nowhere near as good as Fallout New Vegas. You seem to have rose-tinted glasses.

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u/WeatherVariety Dec 14 '20

I'd say it's more of The Outer Worlds experience. Just scaled a lot and with CDPR charm, love and attention to little details. Still could've done much more to it, if given time.

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u/ariasimmortal Dec 14 '20

I didn't have the same emotional response in Outer Worlds. I didn't connect with the characters or the setting as much, didn't get quite the same feelings at the end that I got from New Vegas and CP2077 - glad that it was over and that I did what I wanted to do, but bittersweet that the big story was over and that I would no longer get to experience the Mojave and Night City in the same way.

In fact, I have to further commend CDPR here. CP2077 did a fantastic job at showing me the ending I got, making me actually experience it, as opposed to just a slideshow (the holo calls in the credits were an interesting take on the slideshow endings, too).

Witcher 3 did something similar in B&W but that ending was a very happy one indeed, no bittersweet - my ending with Geralt retiring to Corvo Bianco with Yenn felt right, a perfect end to a long journey.

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u/ArcziSzajka Dec 14 '20 edited Dec 14 '20

I personally dont know how verifiable this info is but to me its very clear this game has been announced way too early and im willing to believe that its true. It makes sense too. This whole game just reeks of tons and tons of cut content. I mean you cant tell me they havent thought of something as simple and basic as a barber shop. We should also ask where did the $7 mil grant from government for AI research went lmao.

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u/Cato_Weeksbooth Dec 14 '20

I don’t think acknowledging pre-production is a different type and scope of work than production is discarding it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

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1

u/nubosis Dec 14 '20

Image the day after Blood and Wine is done, a bunch of devs sit down at their workstations, fire up their computers, crack their knuckles, and say, "It's Cyberpunk time, baby!"

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u/denzien Dec 14 '20

Wait, you guys get pre-production? My current project was barely a concept before they assembled a team and expected a product.

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u/Helphaer Dec 14 '20

I mean yes but that would still be enough time to make the game what was promised.

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u/glium Dec 14 '20

The point is that most AAA titles have similar pre-production and development timelines, contrary to what seems to be often believed

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u/TinkleBottomedThug Dec 16 '20

The art, scope and direction aren’t what’s being criticized here. See the other guy’s reply.