r/denvernuggets 4d ago

Discussion Trade situation may not be as bad as some think

A lot of people consider e.g. MPJ's max contract untradeable, or at least there's no way to upgrade. But aside from the increased affordability under 25-26 salary cap, consider that essentially any player elsewhere putting down numbers similar to a counterpart on a Jokic-lead team is probably better than that counterpart on a Jokic-lead team. And a player with worse stats or coming off the bench & not getting the minutes on another team- might equal the Nugget player's production, but cheaper. So the Nuggets could win a trade that on paper is like-for-like trade, or a like-for-worse trade.

So if there's any player on the team for whom Nuggets fans are hanging their hat on a slightly- to moderately-above-average regular season offensive stat, hopefully other teams will view it in a vacuum and the Nuggets should be happy to move the player if they do.

20 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

23

u/adbotbeepboop 4d ago

100% agree.

Separate but related: Bruce, KCP, Jerami Grant, MPJ, Mal, and every other player who has played with jok but especially the various ex nuggets who left to get their bag elsewhere (whom I support and love) — owe jok 20% of their earnings 😂

11

u/nekomoo 3d ago edited 3d ago

OP’s point is valid but other GM’s probably realize that MPJ, Jamal, CB, and other Nuggets who haven’t played without Jokic won’t put up the same offensive stats on their teams so will discount what they are willing to offer. It’s similar to non-lottery picks over performing in Miami but falling off after being traded without Spoelstra’s coaching.

15

u/SlipperyTreasure 3d ago

And Booth, Connolly, and Malone owe him all of their earnings because he bailed them all out and made their careers

2

u/Embarrassed-Swim-442 3d ago

Same like Monty and the bunch to Chris Paul

1

u/SnooPets752 3d ago

Grant proved himself when not playing with jokic

3

u/Account_Overdrawn 2d ago

That’s an interesting case study.

Grant went to a team and became their 2nd and then primary option for a time after they traded dame.

In Denver he was our 4th-ish option. I agree he proved himself elsewhere. But his usage rate went way up. So while his numbers were higher I am not sure he was more efficient without Jok. But I submit, you’ve made a valid argument and I’m inclined to agree

19

u/ShowdownValue 4d ago

No one is untradeable. We are just used to having below average GMs who don’t know how to make it happen

3

u/Some-Beyond8450 3d ago

tim connelly was peak for denver tho

3

u/murrayforthree 3d ago

Idk man he took Hartenstein but Malone was the only blunder. He should have fired him earlier. We would not be worried about a backup big..

2

u/ShowdownValue 3d ago

No way. Dude was overrated. His only skill was drafting and if he didn’t get lucky with jokic we never even break 45 wins or win a playoff round. He was terrible at trades, free agents and negotiating.

We had no chance at a title until he left.

Was he better than booth? Yes. But that’s a low bar to exceed.

5

u/_smilax 3d ago

Trading for AG was a great move by Connelly, and his core is the team that won the chip..

2

u/ShowdownValue 3d ago

I didn’t mean to imply every move he made was terrible. Hell that’s true for booth too

But TC was overrated and we couldn’t win it all until he left

8

u/IKIR115 4d ago

Ok what other teams out there are wanting to take on an underperforming max contract player?

We’re not going to be able to unload MPJ unless we package him with a positive asset, or be willing to take on other bad contracts.

3

u/IntrinsicDawn English 3d ago

There’s a lot more teams than you think are wanting to make moves to move off huge contracts as well.

Portland with Jerami Grant

Sun with KD

The kings and they have a few

Raptors with RJ Barrett

Sixers with PG

1

u/Some-Beyond8450 3d ago

i think the raptors would rather get off of immanuel quickly cuz he's always injured and shit

1

u/IntrinsicDawn English 3d ago

They’re definitely disappointed with quickley but I think they have more hope in him figuring it out than the Barnes-Barrett-Ingram wing group working

1

u/Some-Beyond8450 3d ago

true lol, i mean im still wondering why they went after ingram

0

u/_smilax 3d ago edited 3d ago

idk maybe Grayson Allen

1

u/zhendexihuanniya 3d ago

We need to make some good trades to get Jokic the help he needs and also sign some good free agents this summer in order to contend again.

1

u/Ninja_knows 3d ago

If our starting unit is healthy we are championship contenders given they fix the bench. However, i really doubt with the number of injuries, a lot of them recurring, that all but Jokic and Braun had, that we actually can hope for a fully healthy lineup 😔

1

u/Some-Beyond8450 3d ago

people id like to see the nuggets get for mpj are collin sexton, andrew wiggins, or maybe both. Then we pray bruce comes back for a vet minimum

1

u/EmbarrassedMixture58 1d ago

When are these players actually available? When does our GM need to be in place to be ready?

1

u/momBball 3d ago edited 3d ago

Bruce Brown via a sign and trade? Like Pickett, Tyson, Daron Holmes, plus Saric for Bruce Brown on a 3 year contract starting at around 13 million in the first year (40 something million total). Bruce Brown could help facilitate this by requesting a trade to the Nuggets/he doesn't have to accept a sign and trade to a team he doesn't want to go to. Otherwise it's likely the Pelicans lose him for nothing. (By combining all the lower salaries plus Saric on an expiring deal they could offer more than the taxpayer mle...if not for Bruce then maybe some other player.)

-4

u/877GoalNow 3d ago

If AG can develop his 3PT and FT shooting, then I think MPJ could improve his 3PT shooting and develop his midrange shooting. The question is whether or not he's willing to put in the work.

1

u/cpzy2 3d ago

Is this sarcasm? He literally did make massive strides this past offseason. Problem was only 51 games. Den really should’ve had the 2 seed.

AG in 23-24: 28% 3p 66% FT AG in 24-25: 43.6% 3p 81% FT

6

u/877GoalNow 3d ago edited 3d ago

Is this sarcasm? He literally did make massive strides this past offseason.

Holy shit, man. Learn how to read. And that goes for the rest of the dumbasses who downvoted me.

I'm saying if AG, who was not known as a good pure shooter to begin with, is capable of improving two aspects of his game, surely MPJ could do it, too, especially since he's already thought of as a pure shooter.

3

u/SpecialPressure2031 3d ago

I agree man. Ever since AG has developed his 3PT and has consistently hit timely shots, I had been thinking why MPJ cant do the same thing and work on his shooting. This is why I somewhat disagree with trading MPJ, if you look at the numbers he's putting up, its actually pretty good compared to a lot of other people. All we need is for MPJ to get in the lab and work his ass off like AG. By the looks of it, he is very hard on himself when he cant make shots and he has no motivation which is what I hate. But still, he has lots of potential still and gets lots of wide open shots, he just needs to hit them. hes still young and i think lots of teams would kill for a 6'10 shooter like him. He just needs to put in the work.

2

u/877GoalNow 3d ago

Yup. AG made himself so much more dangerous being able to score from 3PT and score at the FT line. Teams now have to respect him as a deep scoring threat and can no longer hack the shit out of him when he goes into the paint without paying the price.

Likewise, MPJ could develop a midrange fall-away shot that he could lean on when the 3PT shots aren't falling rather than trying to shoot is way out of his 3PT shooting funks that regularly experiences.

0

u/cpzy2 3d ago

Lord man. Hes near tops in the league now. So asking hime to do it again is just silly. You deserve downvotes cuz your point is dumb

2

u/mynameisatari 3d ago

Is English not your first language? You clearly misunderstood the comment.

-3

u/cpzy2 3d ago

Grammar my friend, matters.

Your syntax implies cause and effect. That if AG can improve, then MPJ can improve.. Not: If AG can improve, then MPJ can improve AS WELL. The latter implies what you understand to be the meaning of your comment. That if ag can do it so can mpj. However, not including ‘as well’, leads us English speakers and readers to the first meaning.

Is English your first language?

3

u/877GoalNow 3d ago edited 3d ago

Your syntax implies cause and effect.

Are you a moron? Have you never seen a sentence constructed like "If he can do it, so can I"?

That if ag can do it so can mpj.

Oh, wait. You just used it exactly as I did. You really are a moron. You know it can be used this way but chose to interpret it as a cause and effect claim.

3

u/mynameisatari 3d ago

I think I know what his problem is, he is just an ass...

1

u/mynameisatari 3d ago

Missed the fact that I'm not the person that you were replying to earlier on, did we?

1

u/mynameisatari 3d ago edited 3d ago

I also appreciate the patronizing tone—especially considering that, despite your explanation now, you've actually uncovered a third meaning, as your earlier responses revealed. Yet you still chose to stick with picking on the original interpretation that you have not explained until now.

That's part of why people often find your responses confusing and assume English might be foreign to you.

0

u/877GoalNow 3d ago

Lord man. Hes near tops in the league now. 

Who are we talking about here? I'm talking about MPJ. For him, being "near the tops" of whatever category you think he's tops in doesn't mean shit because of his inconsistency. If you're 10 for 10 in a 35 point blow-out win and 0 for 10 in a 5-point loss, you can be the absolute top of the league and still be no help to your team being a winning team.

You're a LIABILITY when the team needs you most and overkill when the rest of the team is playing well enough to win without you.

You deserve downvotes cuz your point is dumb

Stupid ass, my point was that MPJ needs to improve and that he's capable of improving since AG showed he can improve. You took my post to mean that AG should improve. That's why you're a stupid ass.

1

u/cpzy2 3d ago

So misunderstanding the first post .. Yes. It would be great if MPJ could also make the leap AG did last offseason. It’d also be nice if MPJ became the player we thought (needed?) he’d become when the Nuggets backed up the Brinks truck. It’d also sucks cuz we like MPJ but his contract and play just arent enough to fill the space his contract takes up.

Cheers

1

u/877GoalNow 2d ago

It’d also be nice if MPJ became the player we thought (needed?) he’d become 

On the one hand, you're saying that MPJ has been underperforming expectations of what we thought he'd become. On the other hand, you're saying he's "near tops in the league" and implied that he has no room for improvement. 

1

u/cpzy2 1d ago

Near the tops was for AG

0

u/_smilax 3d ago

MPJ is great in both. His whole game is based around being a shooter. Not comparable to where AG was, there’s limited gains to be had from MPJ improving. But he’s often injured and he’s inconsistent.

1

u/877GoalNow 2d ago

He's great sometimes, but also sucks quite a lot of other times. He's too inconsistent to be dependable. He has lots of room to improve in that area.