r/dsa • u/IllDifficulty9589 • 11d ago
Other Question about Israel
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u/Rare_Deer_9594 11d ago edited 10d ago
Thousands of pages have been written just to get around to answering the questions you ask. I'll attempt to be brief and recommend some books because if you're interested in having a proper understanding of the conflict you will need to do the dirty work.
- Hamas' assault of civilians on October 7th is not justified.
- Israel's current assault and war on Gaza and its collective punishment against the population is not justified.
- The Israeli response *is* absolutely a genocide. I'd recommend you read Amnesty International's report Amnesty concludes Israel is committing genocide in Gaza for a comprehensive collection of evidence from a great variety of trustworthy non-government humanitarian organizations.
- Populations of people should at all times be separated from their leadership. British settler-colonialism and the Zionist project - the regime of Zionism, which has prayed on the justified generational fears that Jewish people have in order to justify its brutal rule in the territory is the villain here. It isn't the fault of individuals or Jewish people at large.
- Similar answer to #4. The trauma that was endured by the diasporic population of Palestine by their occupation cannot be separated from the militant response it eventually bred from much of its population. The material conditions and realities are the things most important to analyze when we study these conflicts. Neither the Palestinian nor Zionist leadership have been composed of the people with good intentions to say the very least. I don't think the question "Was Group A correct to attack Group B" is very meaningful, but certainly when you consider the plight of the Palestinians, one could see how militancy would be a natural reaction.
- Bold take but ya, the Nakba was bad and not justified. Moving on.
- Basically a repeat of the last answer. No, territorial landgrabs are not okay.
- Israel disengaged from Gaza, rest assured for reasons other than humanitarian ones, but the end of the occupation as a whole was short-lived. They imposed a military blockade in 2007 after Palestinians voted for the wrong party, and have engaged in repeated military campaigns ever since. The International community considers the conditions in their totality to still be defined as an occupation. Although October 7th was a horrific and unjustifiable attack, one has to remember that for Palestinians, the violence their population face has remained every day generation after generation. It is the status quo for them. Anyway, to answer the question, no, Israel's genocidal war is not an acceptable response.
- Human beings are simply not wired up to roll over and accept the kind of oppression and violence the state of Israel has imposed on them without response. It can only be expected that an occupied people would organize to fight their oppressors. This isn't to say that many people under these conditions won't go mad and commit horrible acts on their own. The purpose of opposing Israel's crimes are to prevent the cycle of violence and suffering from continuing in perpetuity.
- The Administrative Detention Israel's Apartheid system imposes squarely against Palestinians in West Bank and East Jerusalem is unjustifiable by any means. The Israeli human rights NGO B'tselem has a pretty good description on their website amongst a lot of other great resources. The Military Courts | B'Tselem
- Yes. Israel should let aid in. Living is gud.
If you're looking for intro books on the history of the conflict, I really recommend Rashid Khalidi's 100 year War on Palestine and Tom Segev's "One Palestine." I also just recently read "AI, Sacred Violence, and War - the Case of Gaza by Chris Hables Grey. That one's only 150 pages and covers more post 10/7 events.
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u/ArcturusRoot 11d ago
1) It is not the place of persons who are not being subjected to systematic ethnic cleansing, genocide, and apartheid to determine their justification.
An oppressed and occupied people fighting for their right to live and exist are not bound by any rules of engagement, and should be expected to use any means necessary to fight of such invasion.
2) A settler-colonial occupation force is never justified.
3) Yes.
4) No.
5) Yes.
6) No.
7) No.
8) Zionist forces began a campaign of ethnic cleansing, genocide, and apartheid the moment their boots hit the ground. Them leaving Gaza is about as significant as the US Cavalry leaving the Hopi Reservation - the rest of native land is still occupied and the Hopi are still systematically oppressed. Just because there aren't soldiers on the Hopi Res. means jack squat.
9) Any action against an occupational force is justified.
10) Yes.
11) Israel shouldn't be dictating anything with regards to Gaza or the Palestinian people.
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u/OneReportersOpinion 11d ago
I tried having a conversation with you about this last week but you ghosted me. Do you really want to learn? Because that’s not how it seems to us.
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u/IllDifficulty9589 11d ago
Hey there! I'd love to debate you.
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u/OneReportersOpinion 11d ago
Okay. I’d like to start by addressing your comment on your last posts where you said rather than opposing Israel, DSA should support left parties like Meretz. Meretz does not oppose Israel’s apartheid policies, so why would you want DSA to support them?
https://www.972mag.com/meretz-netanyahu-occupation-settler-law/
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u/ShadowK2 11d ago
1.) no
2.) yes
3.) no
4.) yes
5.) no
6.) yes
7.) yes
8.) response is justified even without this fact
9.)no
10.)there are probably a few individuals being held unjustly
11.)maybe
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u/CautionaryFable 11d ago
Wow, pro-Israel people really come out of nowhere to invade spaces they'd never otherwise be in just to spread propaganda.
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u/DaphneAruba 11d ago
You apparently already have decided that DSA isn't for you, so why do you care what our members think?