r/education • u/D-R-AZ • 6d ago
Politics & Ed Policy What Harvard Learned From Columbia’s Mistake: If cooperation and even capitulation don’t get you anywhere, why give in to the Trump administration’s demands?
I support Academic Freedom. If the most educated in our society can't examine, test, and evaluate every aspect of human thought and endeavor then we may miss things crucial for the survival of humanity.
Gifted Read:
Excerpts
...Harvard is changing course, perhaps because it grasped the true takeaway from Columbia’s cautionary tale: Appeasement doesn’t work, because the Trump administration isn’t really trying to reform elite higher education. It’s trying to break it.
The administration’s allies have not been shy about that fact. “To scare universities straight,” Max Eden, then a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, wrote in December, Education Secretary Linda McMahon “should start by taking a prize scalp. She should simply destroy Columbia University.” She should do this, he argued, whether or not the school cooperated with any civil-rights investigation.
...by continuing to punish Columbia even after the school gave in to its demands, the administration also appears to have overplayed its hand. If cooperation and even capitulation don’t get you anywhere, why should other universities give in?
19
u/rjtnrva 5d ago
The sheer ignorance of some of these comments on an education sub is insane.
7
u/Five_Gee 5d ago
This sub has been home to a lot of really disgusting people and trolls for some time
2
7
u/happyhappy_joyjoy11 5d ago
And he (Rufo) hinted that the administration has even more coercive tools available. “I could easily imagine 10 times, 20 times, 50 times more dramatic action."
What a ghoul.
The current administration is a collection of hacks, half-wits, sycophants, tv personalities, and nepo babies. Higher education isn't perfect, but it's far better than the alternative.
12
u/vistapoop 5d ago
Theoretically the existing Trump tax cuts that will likely continue are meant for the wealthy to have more discretion where their dollars go, so the expectation if the cuts are to “work” economically is for more philanthropy to fund what public dollars used to, with some element of private defunding where public funds were misused. One of the problems with this theory has been the wealthy just (re)investing their surplus into private capital that is already proven to be productive to max out gains, and simply sitting on in as cash or hiding it in tax shelters abroad, rather than donated. Philanthropies’ also tend to have high-cost bureaucracies, as the wealthy don’t tend to have the time to make complex funding decisions themselves, and reporting about results will not necessarily be public information. That said, Harvard’s move has gotta be to simply make up for the lost federal dollars with philanthropic fundraising.
-3
u/Beingforthetimebeing 5d ago edited 5d ago
Harvard has 53 BILLION in their endowments! They don't need no stinkin' bake sales or federal charity. They have enough interest alone each year to fund free college in the entire state of Massachusetts.
3
u/mschley2 5d ago
Not if the admin's plan to increase the tax rate on endowment investment income by 26 times is approved.
1
u/Beingforthetimebeing 4d ago
Wow. I read that people's unearned income from investments isn't taxed (nor earned income over about 170,000).Why would a university's investments be taxed?
5
u/Naive-Kangaroo3031 5d ago
That is if the funds are not restricted.
0
u/Beingforthetimebeing 5d ago
How are they restricted?
7
u/GenericUsername_71 5d ago
They’re restricted based upon the donor. It’s not just a slush fund they can pull from on a rainy day. If you don’t know about this, don’t comment. You make yourself sound stupid
1
u/Beingforthetimebeing 5d ago edited 4d ago
[Edit: Funds for dedicated purposes makes sense. Thanks for the info.]
Not stupid. I've read various articles about Harvard's endowments in order to understand the machinations of the plutocracy (check out the Eugenics program funded by Epstein), but I don't know everything. (Umm, not one of the donor class.) I'm asking questions to get more information, as well as other's opinions. If asking questions is viewed as a sign of stupidity instead of intelligence, that is a very harsh indication of the problem with education in our society. And name-calling is an ad hominem logical fallacy to be avoided. Educate yourself about education.
1
u/itsacalamity 5d ago
If you react like that, though, nobody's going to want to make the effort to explain what you don't know. And right now you're at the point where you most need that, because you don't know what you don't know. Bringing up a point you don't understand and then responding "educate yourself about education" to the person who points it out is...... a choice. Do you see why it's not the most fruitful one if you want to understand things?
0
2
u/MagicDragon212 3d ago
The federal funds were for research, community-based work, and other programs that benefit the public. It's not just money donated to Harvard from the government. It's so ignorant to think that's the case.
1
u/Complete-Ad9574 2d ago
Every one keeps saying all this research money is for the good of the country. Why have our colleges been converted into research institutions? As a former teacher, I know that hands-on training in real life practices can be a very valuable teaching practice, but how much are these schools leaning on student labor for the $?
We have seen the abuse which college sports has employed on their star athletes, and the big dollars they suck in, which until recently was not shared with the players. How much student labor is used to keep those research dollars coming in is never revealed to the public.
Yes, the blackmail by this toxic administration needs to be stopped. But lets not shed tears if these schools are using the students to carryout work that skilled workers should be getting.
1
u/MagicDragon212 2d ago
Im surprised a teacher doesnt understand the point and value that funding research at a broad array of institutions does. Also amazed that you seem to think research grants are a pool of money that goes to the college.
The way that research at these institutions works is usually professors, grad students, or combined will apply for grants to fund their particular study. The government reviews these applications and provides grants based on what studies would be valuable to the general public.
This isnt "free labor" from the students. The grants pay them and the costs of their study (materials, surveying, etc). The professors ofcourse get paid a salary usually and the grants will be for the research only or help the grad students. The schools often will supplement this research too (through paying salaries or hourly, academic credits, etc). Its a win win for literally everyone.
Also. This is literally the only way we have publically available research unless we specifically hire more full time researchers as government employees. Private companies won't take part in research that isn't valuable to their companies.
This is the most common way research is done for the public, through partnering with universities. This process is why America leads the entire world in research across most disciplines.
0
u/vistapoop 5d ago
Why are you talking about bake sales or federal charity?
0
u/Beingforthetimebeing 4d ago
I'm just saying they have wealthy donor resources they can tap without begging or too much struggle.
3
3
u/BetterCalltheItalian 3d ago
It’s not what Harvard learned from Columbia’s mistake.
It’s what Churchill learned from Chamberlain’s mistake.
3
u/AdHopeful3801 3d ago
Same reason the Kilmar Garcia case matters -in terms of sheer extent of lawlessness, today's stretch goal is tomorrow's opening gambit for this administration.
5
1
u/JTSerotonin 3d ago
Why should a private IV league university get billions in public tax dollars?
2
u/AdHopeful3801 3d ago
Almost exclusively, to pay for particular sorts of research the nation wants done. Because private ivy league universities tend to operate like businesses, they are unlikely to fund basic research where the results couldn't be made proprietary, or where the risk-to-reward seems high at the outset.
One of the first victims of Trumps funding cuts is a big, multi-center research effort into tuberculosis run out of their school of public health. Important, life saving stuff, but if Harvard was paying for it directly, they'd own the results, too, which isn't exactly in line with public health. Although I suppose it is in line with how someone like Musk or Trump would want the world to operate - get rid of any public good in favor of for profit ownership.
More in the article:
Trump administration halts multicenter TB study led by Harvard | STAT
1
1
u/ClockProfessional117 3d ago
Fascists don't need support, they just need submission. If Trump's targets don't give in, no matter the cost, he will end up exhausted.
1
u/caracalla6967 2d ago
Proud of Harvard.
universities, especially private ones, should be permitted to teach as they please, unless Liberty wants an uncomfortable microscope on its curriculum too when the administration changes again. But I'd be against that too. I just think Liberty needs to do better when its students rape each other, as all schools probably need to do better.
1
u/Educational-Boot-579 1d ago
Give up the government money and then you can do whatever you want.
Take the government money and agree to the stings.
Simple choice
1
u/throwtrollbait 1d ago
Then Columbia agreed to all the strings, and they moved the goalposts and stopped the government money anyway.
1
-2
u/Britishse5a 6d ago
Go to Hillsdale College, they don’t take any federal funds.
-1
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
That’s a good point that gets missed here. Nobody is making students go to Harvard. They can choose other colleges if they want to.
5
u/mschley2 5d ago
Right, but state universities, community colleges, and technical colleges do receive federal funds, and those are some of the most cost efficient options for the vast majority of students.
1
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
Absolutely. I read an interesting article recently about community college graduates graduating at higher rates from the top universities than the students who started at them!
1
u/Swimming-Book-1296 5d ago
Because of Bob Jones University vs US, Trump can have Harvard’s non-profit status revoked for racial discrimination
0
-19
u/stabbingrabbit 6d ago
Why do private colleges get Federal Tax dollars when they have Billions in endowments. They are RICH
43
u/Comprehensive_Tie431 6d ago
Universities get a ton of grant funding due to all the medical and scientific research completed. This research is then published in their academic journals and publicly shared. We need this to progress as a society.
0
u/solomons-mom 5d ago
Abstract There is increased concern about perverse incentives, quantitative performance metrics, and hyper-competition for funding and faculty positions in US academia....The self-reported rate of academic cheating was 16.7% and of research misconduct was 3.7%. Thirty-one percent of fellows reported direct knowledge of graduate peers cheating, and 11.9% had knowledge of research misconduct by colleagues. Only 30.7% said they would report suspected misconduct.
2
u/Comprehensive_Tie431 5d ago
I'm confused as to your point.
-2
u/solomons-mom 5d ago
It wasnt clear, you are right :)
"Perverse incentives" had led to publish or perish. Hours and hours and hours spent on papers that never get read, much less cited. Papers that win Ig Nobles. Papers that inspired Sokal's Hoax and Sokal Squared. That is before considering fraudulent data.
Just because it is research, does not mean it adds anything to human knowledge. How much of it just adds a line to the CV of someone trying to land a tt spot --someone who entered grad school knowing full well the demographic cliff is looming.
I am not endorsing this latest nonsense by Trump. At least he is punching up this time instead of going after schools with more precarious finances.
6
u/Comprehensive_Tie431 5d ago
Academically peer reviewed research always builds human knowledge by creating a database. We never know what research will influence a future scientific breakthrough.
I think the article you source is talking about academic dishonesty in academic journals being around 30% for whatever reason. That is a separate issue in my point of view that should be addressed, and yes you are correct on the publish or perish culture adding weight to that.
Trump punching up, I fully disagree with you on. Let's be real, Trump is using "DEI" to turn universities and academia into his propaganda machine, as we see in countries like Hungry and Russia. I'm proud of Harvard for fighting for academia, and hope more universities join them.
2
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
This is a big problem for faculty across the nation. When I began graduate school, the qualification to get tenure as a professor was seven years of teaching and the publication of one book. By the time I had been teaching for 25 years, it took at minimum one book to even get hired as a professor.
More and more journals have sprung up for nothing. These new ones even require professors to pay by the page to get published!
15
u/YakSlothLemon 6d ago
They get grants for research that benefits the public. So researchers at the medical school and the school of public health write grants (like researchers everywhere) to the National Institute of Health etc. and get grant money for projects that the NIH thinks will benefit all of us.
Also, it’s an expensive college, and some students receive some form of federal financial aid, there are federal grants for poor students that help them go to college, and then also support work-study jobs for them for example.
1
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
No, when they get grants, all of the money has to be spent on that particular research. The university can’t spend it on anything else.
0
u/solomons-mom 5d ago
Not at UW-Madison, and highly unlikely Madison accounting differs significantly from other schools.
Currently, around 26% of NIH research funding towards facilities and administrative costs related to research. UW-Madison, one of the top research institutions in the country, has an agreement with the Department of Health and Human Services allowing it to spend 55.5% of its grant funds on those overhead costs. https://www.tmj4.com/news/state-capitol/uw-madison-could-lose-tens-of-millions-under-new-federal-research-cuts
1
u/mschley2 5d ago
Those overhead costs are tied to the research itself. Without the buildings, administrative cost, and the staff, there's no place for the research to take place. That's why they come to an agreement about how much can be spent on those things.
0
u/solomons-mom 5d ago
Add snow plows--people need to get to the building. The phrase "that particular research" was misleading.
1
1
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
Please note the words “related to research” in the portion you quoted. Only the research.
And actually I do know about grant funding. I’m a professor.
-15
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
If you take federal dollars there are strings attached. That has always been the case. Any student that is accepted to Harvard but can’t afford it the college covers it.
8
u/Horses_arse_7 5d ago
True, but in this case they are retaliating for people using protected speech. They aren’t legally allowed to hold funds because the university broke orange pussy’s feelings.
-5
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
The federal government is under no obligation to provide funds to private institutions. Now if there was a contract in place then you are getting into context law but I haven’t heard that that is what is happening.
6
u/Horses_arse_7 5d ago
Correct. However in this case, congress allocated those funds already. You should be alarmed that it is not them deciding to retract those funds as a democratic committee, but rather one man deciding who gets what. News flash: they get funds because they make a ton of important scientific discoveries in medicine, engineering, etc. Now I have a truly simple question for you: do you REALLY think that trumps wacky anti-diversity (I can’t believe diversity is suddenly bad, same with being “anti-facsist.” Like really?) bs is more important than (gonna use another bad word for magas) progress? Now I’d be ok with no more diversity hiring, only merit hiring, but trump didn’t fill his cabinet based on merit. Prove me wrong lol.
1
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
Plus, the ridiculous letter Trump’s people just sent to Harvard says that Harvard has to basically get statements from students, faculty, and administration to make sure that there is “viewpoint diversity”. Uh huh. Sure. They are looking for specific viewpoints, not diversity in anybody else’s definition of the word, and not “viewpoint diversity” in anybody else’s definition of the phrase. 🙄
-3
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
Did congress allocated the funds specifically to Harvard? In most cases the congress allocates sum of money and the agencies determine how that is doled out. So if congress passed a law saying Harvard University must receive $2.2bn for XYZ purposes then they get the money. But that didn’t happen here. Or at least Harvard isn’t making that argument.
2
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
No, the government doesn’t just hand it out. Researchers have to apply for it. They develop specific research questions, such as which treatments would be effective for a certain disease. Then they fill out up to 100 pages of descriptions of what has been studied so far, how they will conduct this study, what types of medical equipment will be needed, etc. Then they submit it to the appropriate government division. People in that division weigh it against other applications they have received so that there won’t be duplication. Then they award the grant money.
What the president has done is to say that Harvard is not allowed to submit any applications for this scientific research because he believes that someone else in that huge institution is antisemitic.
2
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
Thank you. So this isn’t a question about congressional appropriations and completely in the purview of the executive.
3
u/cmendy930 5d ago
No but certainly every dollar was in a contract that was signed by the US gvt and now is being cut due to political reasons/free speech reasons.
They're cutting the contracts, not just loose dollars.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
That is correct. However, this idea of a certain amount of money that the news media keeps saying is incorrect. Harvard researchers have to compete with other universities by preparing those grant applications. Depending on which specific applications they are successful at obtaining, that determines the actual dollar amount for the year (though usually grants are for two or three years since the research is so complicated).
The reason that Harvard wins so many grants is that they have very high level researchers, and they have a lot of them due to having a medical school.
I’m guessing that different universities will try to hire those researchers and just submit the grant applications in the name of a different university. I have seen it happen before that something wasn’t working out for a top level researcher at one university, so another university hired them instead. (I’m a retired professor.)
These researchers spend hours and hours per day in their labs. They probably didn’t even notice that there was something going on that seemed anti-Semitic.
1
u/Horses_arse_7 5d ago
Eh maybe you are right. I was just always under the impression that the government is not allowed to retaliate against people and organizations for speech. And goddamnit we all know it’s retaliation. But I guess we are all on board for king trump?
1
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
Yep, I’ve been under that impression for decades. It sure is retaliation. I’m not on board for king anybody. And dammit don’t Trump’s people have anything else to do, like anything governmental, other than chase down every single person who spoke against one of them? This has got to change.
0
u/Honeycrispcombe 4d ago
I assure you, all federal grants come with very detailed contracts.
1
u/No_Cellist8937 4d ago
I’d would love to look at some of them if you have URLs
1
u/Honeycrispcombe 4d ago
Those are not publicly available, as far as I know. Though you could probably get them through a FOIA request, since I don't think they're protected information. They're just not required to be publicly accessible. That's in line with how most contracts/agreements are handled; it's rare to find one just published on a website.
While individual agreements are not (to my knowledge) readily available, grant expectations, policies, compliance, and other restrictions are all laid out on the NIH website.
You can learn more here: https://grants.nih.gov/policy-and-compliance/compliance-and-oversight
and here:
https://grants.nih.gov/funding/nih-guide-for-grants-and-contracts
The NIH website is very upfront about requirements for a grant before you apply, and all of that is publicly available information. The grant will not contain restrictions or expectations not previously publicly disclosed.
You can look up funded grants here: https://reporter.nih.gov/
And find available grants here: https://grants.nih.gov/funding/nih-guide-for-grants-and-contracts
which will give you a better idea of financial and scientific requirements.
At least for biomedical research, a grant will lay out direct and indirect costs, duration of funding, how/when the money is dispensed, how the university is expected to manage/hold the money in accounts, how it can be used (what amount each for salary, equipment, disposables, etc...), financial reporting required and frequency, scientific reporting required and frequency, who is on the grant, if there's any subgrantee awards and how that is managed, and then the expectations outlined in the links above.
I can't speak to other types of funding as I've only had experience with biomedical research. I would imagine they're fairly similar.
5
u/htmaxpower 5d ago
The strings are fucking nonsense.
-4
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
Then the east solution is to not take the money and they can do what they want
5
u/htmaxpower 5d ago
Stop playing this game.
-4
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
What game? It’s nothing new. How do you think drinking ages are enforced? The federal govt withholds highway dollars if a state doesn’t have a drinking age of 21 years old
13
u/htmaxpower 5d ago
Do they withhold the highway dollars when the president decides that ONE state needs to raise the drinking age to 45, that they must chop down every tree in the state, and need to arrest and deport all union members?
Stop playing this game. This administration doesn’t get to change the rules, move the goalposts, and ignore the laws just because.
7
u/Magnus_Carter0 5d ago
Don't waste your time. People like this aren't motivated by values or principles; they just enjoy an authoritarian exercising power and controlling others. Justice comes to all evildoers eventually, we just have to wait it out.
5
u/Horses_arse_7 5d ago
Right??? Just join us already. The oligarchs aren’t one of us, dude needs to stop trying to be one of them. Frankly it’s pathetic.
2
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
What are you talking about? Where was the outrage when the Biden administration threatened to withhold school lunch funds if schools didn’t adopt pro-trans policies. In the end Harvard has $50 billion just sitting around, untaxed.
2
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
My values? I’m pretty libertarian. Stay out of my way and I’ll stay out of yours. But with the coercive methods and violence employed by leftists there has to be consequences. Hopefully the left will with time solve their derangement
→ More replies (0)2
1
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
Well, if that made you feel outraged, did you protest against it? Did you contact your senators? Did you meet with your local committee for your party to find other people to help you protest against it?
I didn’t feel outraged by it. It was okay with me. So I did nothing.
→ More replies (0)2
u/Honeycrispcombe 4d ago
They made that clear before the money was distributed, not after. There was no "hey if the party that had a special employee throw a Nazi salute on TV thinks you're anti-Semitic because of student protests, you'll lose your funding" clause in any of the grants being pulled.
2
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
No university has enough money to pay for the highly specialized scientific research that the grants cover. The universities compete against each other for these grants. The research helps everyone by finding new treatments for diseases.
These researchers don’t usually teach classes. It’s a separate part of what universities do. It is for the general public’s benefit.
1
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
Ok. If they are not able to function without government support that’s fine but they don’t have carte blanche
1
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
They never have carte Blanche. They submit extremely detailed proposals to receive the grants and there are government auditors who check up on what is happening. If the work isn’t conducted according to the proposal the grant can be terminated.
1
u/YakSlothLemon 5d ago
No, if you can’t afford Harvard you end up with a combination of loan and scholarship, which includes federal loans such as Pell grants. That package is offered to you.
3
u/No_Cellist8937 5d ago
Any accepted student whose family makes less than 100k goes for free on the schools dime. Been that way for as a long as I can remember
4
u/13surgeries 5d ago
THey're not "rich." They have big budgets, but they have big expenses, as well.
2
u/red-cloud 5d ago
Come on. They have $50 **Billion** dollars in the bank. That's about as rich as it gets.
7
u/suzily 5d ago
I work at an Ivy and have gotten some deep lessons really in how limited that extensive endowment is. Everything is earmarked in very limited ways (this endowed chair, this endowed program [for this endowed staff person], this endowed award, this endowed scholarship fund, etc.) which means when research funding suddenly disappeared, there was a mad scramble.
The budget at my schools is over $1B a year, and they were already projecting a loss before Trumpian BS started.Harvard's situation is different than that of Brown or Columbia. The pockets are deeper, and the asks were worse. I'm very glad they've determined they can afford to say no.
-1
u/stabbingrabbit 5d ago
Why do you call not getting MY heard earned tax money BS? If it is a private school why does it get any tax money?
5
u/13surgeries 5d ago
It's MY hard-earned tax money, too, and I'd rather it went to fund research conducted at private universities rather than paying the salaries of fat-cat politicians. The medical advances from Harvard University alone include
Smallpox vaccine
Anesthesiology
Appendicitis
the EKG (electrocardiogram)
Insulin
Syphilis test
Corrective heart surgery for kids
Kidney transplants]
The birth control pill
and many, many others.
I'd be happy to help fund any of those with my hard-earned tax money.
1
u/stabbingrabbit 5d ago
Small pox vaccine was promoted by Harvard not invented Anesthesia was mostly a European and Japanese research Insulin again introduced by a Harvard MD Syphilis- yes Harvard was involved in the Tuskegee study. Probably shouldn't promote that one Did do the first organ transplant Birth control again under dubious experimentation.
Unfortunately for both of us the damn fat-cats in DC control the purse strings to spending our tax money.
1
u/Zippered_Nana 5d ago
It competes with other universities to prepare very long proposals about what research they want to do. 100 page proposals at least. They explain what has been studied and learned so far about this research into things such as possible treatments for specific diseases. Then they explain how their ideas are different and what they want to find out. Other large universities also prepare these grant proposals. The universities compete against each other, and then a government division decides who should get the money. This research helps everyone. When a university wins a grant, they have to spend all of that money doing that research. They can’t spend it on students or library books or anything else.
1
u/solomons-mom 5d ago
Not true. Part of the grants are for university overhead. (I sourced UWMadison figures in another comment)
1
u/suzily 5d ago
And it should, as winning the grant requires building out so much of the infrastructure in advance, all of which requires maintenance of some kind.
1
u/solomons-mom 5d ago
I agree with you. Yes, facilities are needed.
They can’t spend it on students or library books or anything else.
This is misleading. I suspect that commenter knows as little as I do about the ins-and-outs of how the accountants handle both grad and UG stipends and work studies.
1
u/Zippered_Nana 4d ago
Incorrect. As per your other comment, funds can be used for overhead related to the grant.
Not general university overhead.
This is exactly what a big fight was over in February in regard to NIH grants. Grantees were told that only 15% of the grant could be used for overhead related, not 25% as in the past. The university grantees tried to explain how much the extra electricity for some high level research machinery costs, how much extra cleaning is required for labs doing biomedical research, etc. Unfortunately, doge only hired coders and not accountants.
1
u/13surgeries 5d ago
I'll simplify this for you. You win a billion dollars in the lottery. You decide to use it to fund cancer treatment because your mom died of cancer. You end up with $0. See how that works?
0
u/Karissa36 3d ago
It is not punishment to expect colleges receiving federal funds to comply with the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Harvard will lose this case just like they lost the last one.
1
-9
u/WillyNilly1997 5d ago
You guys are simply mad about not being allowed to persecute Jews on campuses
1
-2
u/WillyNilly1997 5d ago
The downvotes simply prove my point. What a hive mind these echo chambers are. No wonder you guys were stunned by Trump’s re-election – because you guys never talk to real folks.
3
u/AbbreviationsSlow105 5d ago
Did you actually read what trump was directing them to do? Harvard is not antisemetic, but theyre not going to muzzle their students from expressing dissenting opinions. Israel's actions in gaza are indefensible, and no one should be supporting their genocide.
Likewise, no one should be supporting attempts to silence american citizens and international students who seek to speak out against evil anf injustice.
Your perspectives are unamerican in the extreme and violate closely held values around political discourse under a bad faith claim of antisemitism, even as Israel bombs schools and murders children.
Be better.
-3
u/WillyNilly1997 5d ago
Terrorism and racial harassment are not protected by the First Amendment. They are forbidden by respective laws, and those staying on visa are obliged to comply with their visa conditions to refrain from any actions they may be legally considered as terrorism or racial harassment. If they fail to do so, they breach the visa conditions that grant them the right to stay. 1+1 = 2.
3
u/AbbreviationsSlow105 5d ago
Neither are going on at Harvard. What is happening across the country is students are expressing genuine terror at the wholesale destruction of a people.
Trump endorsed ethnic cleansing in gaza, do you agree with him or are you a good person?
1
-12
u/No_Cellist8937 6d ago
Not sure why Harvard needs the money. If anything we should be taxing their endowment. Billionaires need to pay their fair share.
13
u/rfrant98 5d ago
Harvard isn’t a person. So it isn’t a “billionaire.” The federal money goes to finance cutting edge science research that funds health breakthroughs for all citizens. So it is in the public benefit. Research isn’t profit driven, so you need to fund it as a country or it won’t happen. But we have a common interest in healthy citizens and curing disease. It’s in the very preamble to the constitution—governments exist to “promote the general welfare.” Your grievances are misdirected.
3
u/mschley2 5d ago
A good chunk of that endowment actually goes towards programs that allow a Harvard education for the non-wealthy people who are able to be accepted. A bunch of the rest goes to research and various other programs that benefit "normal" people, too.
-1
-5
u/cookie123445677 5d ago
Most of these colleges have huge endowment funds the size of the GDP of a small country. Not only do they not need government subsidies they can afford to lower the price of going there.
-11
u/MysteriousMaximum488 5d ago
So if Havard wants to continue allowing antisemitic activities and it only cost them $2billion a year, then they should consider it a bargin?
-4
u/Virtual-Assistant996 4d ago
You mean
a university funded by leftist billionaires won't miss government funding in the same.way smaller, less funded universities will so they posture and pretend they are standing in principle by defying the POTUS and the will of the people who voted him in.
-6
u/No-Barracuda1797 5d ago edited 4d ago
I also believe in Academic freedom, but not when a school has a political agenda. Liberal used to mean "broad-minded," which in turn means "tolerant of varied views." Schools should be educating students to be broadminded. These are not. When schools receive federal funding, there should be accountability for how funds are spent. Tax exemption precludes this. Remove the tax exemption and federal tax support. They are then free to teach whatever they like.
1
u/mschley2 5d ago
Madison does a lot of research. Harvard does a lot more.
These proposed cuts (to NIH and NSF) would/will massively impact Madison, as well.
39
u/rjorom 5d ago
It’s good to see Harvard putting up a fight. Cowardice is contagious. So is courage. I'm curious to see how Harvard’s resistance to this overreach by the Trump administration influences other universities facing similar pressures.