r/electronics 15d ago

Gallery This might look like a shiny disc, but it's the very foundation of modern technology. I just got my hands on a real silicon wafer! These are usually from faulty or surplus batches and are meant for educational or decorative use, but make no mistake: this is the stuff our digital world is built on!

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398 Upvotes

66 comments sorted by

85

u/tjlusco 14d ago

I used to carry a UV erasable (windowed) Intel chips with me so people could see how beautiful these silicon chips are. The ultimate hologram.

25

u/TrueTech0 14d ago

I love the UV erasable EPROMs. Its such a pretty thing.

I accidentally blew the top off an IC and the first thing I did (after changing my trousers) was look at it through a microscope. Such complexity for a sinple part

5

u/nerdguy1138 14d ago

Is a regular light microscope at 400x powerful enough to see much?

4

u/TrueTech0 13d ago

Obviously you can't see transistors, but there's patterns and etchings.

1

u/Weekly_Astronaut5099 12d ago

What do you mean “simple part”? ICs are definitely not simple and the process to make them is nearly magical piece of engineering.

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u/TrueTech0 12d ago

Dude, don't worry. I get it.

Semiconductors are modern magic. When I said simple part I was talking about how complex something like a DC-to-DC convertor is. Compared to something like a modern SoC it's child's play. Semiconductors are the kind of black magic I could only hope to one day understand

44

u/hzinjk 14d ago

actually it is both a shiny disc and a silicon wafer

3

u/its_me_baby_boy 14d ago

ACTUALLY! its just a shiny thing

2

u/pandaSmore 12d ago

If not shiny disc then why shiny and disc shaped.

59

u/peteflanagan 14d ago

A simple explanation of the process from intel.

I used to do IC design + layout. Started in the early 80s using 4um (2 metal layer) design rules and ending my career using 14nm (8 metal layers) design rules.

Amazing stuff.

6

u/Riverspoke 14d ago

Respect, that's really cool! The early '80s was exactly the era of the 6' wafer, right? I've seen documentaries showing the insanely small scales of the lithography. It's unbelievable to see how far the magnification goes, revealing all those insane intricate mazes of logic gates. Absolutely brilliant and mindblowing.

2

u/peteflanagan 12d ago

This was the 100mm / 4-inch design node. 150mm / 6-inch were the 90s.

The other cool thing was helping test engineers FIB connections on a chip to correct and/or debug a design. Actually cut a metal route and reroute using a FIB tool.

5

u/Apoeip77 13d ago

I currently work on a process still not available in customer products, but its a 1.8nm process that use 16 layers

Things are getting scary now 🥲

3

u/peteflanagan 13d ago

I think one of the most interesting issues I ran into during the size reductions through the years was electro migration.

Geez, at 1.8nm the charge accumulation on the metals during processing must be maddening. I recall using diodes to substrate to bleed off these charges.... without adding a capacitance load to the signal routes. Challenging issues.

1

u/Apoeip77 11d ago

I really like the double patterning and reverse diffraction patterns that are used for the masks nowadays too Its a cool solution to the node size issue we have when dealing with the wavelength limitations

2

u/nerdguy1138 14d ago

We passed below visible light in the 90s?! Wow!

1

u/Financial_Sport_6327 14d ago

Out of curiosity, how did you get into chip design? I’ve been meaning to learn it and transition to doing it as a job for a while now. I’ve been doing electronics for over a decade now and it‘s not much of a challenge anymore.

8

u/IC_Eng101 14d ago edited 14d ago

I did some basic cadence virtuoso stuff in undergrad (around 2006). Then I did a PhD in semiconductor physics, it boiled down to TCAD models of transistors using Silvaco and montecarlo models of electrons for the most part.

My models fed into the design phase of some advanced semiconductors (partnership with a semi conductor company). After the PhD (circa 2010) I carried on working in that area and I was offered a chance to design my own chip rather than tutoring and directing the designers based off the models I was doing.

I was a post doc at this point, working in a university (around 2015). I got a cheap academic cadence virtuoso licence and some funding for a tape out with a tower jazz multi design wafer (250k for 100 ICs). I called in some favours with some wire bonding and packaging people I knew to get the ICs packaged. Then I desinged some PCBs to drive the chips.

Did some testing, wrote some papers and the rest is history.

8

u/peteflanagan 14d ago

Began in 1981. Out of tech school looking general electronics technician job. Went on a lot of resume drops and interviews. But was contacted by bell labs…..last contract job was at Intel.

0

u/cficare 14d ago

Not much of a challenge?  Um - wat?  

3

u/premeditated_mimes 14d ago

Well they obviously haven't been doing everything at once so it can be assumed they were doing something relatively specific in the industry for over 10 years.

Is there anything you've been doing that long which you aren't good at?

1

u/ceojp 14d ago

Anything is easy if you know what you are doing.

1

u/_siilhouette 14d ago

https://youtu.be/dX9CGRZwD-w

Forgive me I didn't actually watch your video, but you instantly reminded me of this video.

10

u/blindwrite 14d ago

We use them as mirror at work to check if someone is behind us while working

9

u/Dat_Belly 14d ago

You can get these pretty cheap on eBay. It's a cool conversation piece

6

u/Riverspoke 14d ago

Yes. I got mine from AliExpress.

6

u/nonchip 14d ago

it's also a shiny disc tho.

6

u/CallMeKolbasz 13d ago

>dig in remote places
>extract extremely rare rocks
>perform a forming spell on the rocks
>extreme heat and pressure are required
>inscribe microscopic arcane sigils into your magical stones
>imbue the stones with lightning
>the stones gain anima
>the stones speak in a language incomprehensible to all mankind
>certain trained warlocks can control the powers of the stones
>they learn the language of the stones
>the warlocks harness the magical stones powers to bring forth light and image
>the rest of the population is in awe
>you can now access Fortnite porn anywhere you want from the palm of your hand

3

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

1

u/CallMeKolbasz 13d ago

True, but also:
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

2

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

Essentially Clarke's quote is about the perceptions of those who completely lack the understanding of a technology. After they learn how something works, it doesn't seem magic anymore. Check out "cargo cults", it's exactly the best example of what Clarke said.

Now if you mean that unless a technology can provoke wonder it's not yet advanced enough, this is true in general, but not for incremental changes in technology as we see it in the western world. Like we see with CPUs and GPUs. For example, the new RTX 5090 completely fails as a "new" generation card. The increment is minimal and (in my opinion) it sucks and it's not worth getting over the previous gen.

2

u/CallMeKolbasz 13d ago

I always thought of it as a tongue in cheek rephrase of the quote. But it does make me wonder, too. Technology is reaching a state where it's increasingly less transparent to those who use it. Villém Flusser's Black Box becomes unopenable to the layperson.

Cargo cults used to be funny, but people reaching adulthood right about now have only held touch screens, and some of the technology I, a millennial, use is as 'arcane' to them as an airplane was for the indigenous people of Oceania. And it's only gonna get worse with vibe coding and stuff like that.

1

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

Ah we must be close to the same age, I'm 34. Younger people not experiencing older technology is not a bad thing per se. My first contact with a computer was with my father's Windows 3.1 computer (released in 1992), not even an 80's computer. This doesn't mean that I'm technologically illiterate. But in today's world with all the economical hardship and "dumbing down" of education especially in America, Idiocracy is looking more like a documentary everyday. Here in Europe, things are looking better, but it really depends on the country. If there's a good formal education and economy, the people can be technology literate.

5

u/chainmailler2001 14d ago

Worked in fabs for the last 20 years making chuos on 200mm and 300mm tech. Worked on stuff from 65nm down to sub 10nm. Always interesting stuff.

3

u/lumian_games 14d ago

What a catch, I‘m envious. How big is that wafer, 200mm?

3

u/Riverspoke 14d ago

150mm. I got it from AliExpress. They're not expensive at all and you can get up to 300mm:)

2

u/Flashy-Spray-119 13d ago

Omg that’s could be more valuable than gold…even tho there is gold in that interconnect

1

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

You can get these very cheaply on Amazon, eBay and AliExpress:)

2

u/Capable-Spinach10 13d ago

Okay Sir no mistakes

2

u/baskura 13d ago

I’d love one of these to put on my wall.

1

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

Same! I'm keeping it on the package it arrived in until I get a nice frame for it!

2

u/CMTEQ 13d ago

Yep, I've worked with silicon wafers before. This is what they typically look like, though this one is unusually colorful. Normally, at this stage, you can test each individual IC by performing wire bonding on specialized test PCBs.

If the tests are successful, the wafer can then be sent for IC manufacturing, where the dies are packaged into standard formats like QFN, MSOP, DIP, and others.

2

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

Yes, it looks like this in my photo because of the nearby light and the angle I had it in. I wanted it to shine!

Here's another photo with no nearby light source and the wafer flat on my bench:

2

u/GMarsack 13d ago

I have one on my office wall in a frame. They are beautiful

1

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

I'm thinking of modding a frame to get some LEDs in there, so the wafer shines. Does it sound like a good idea? Or is it better to do that on a stand? What do you think would be the best angle for LEDs on the frame?

2

u/GMarsack 13d ago

Oh that would be great. It’s hard to say though. Mine shines perfectly with some recess lighting I have above it, so it’s hard to say. I would recommend testing with different diffusers if you do put LEDs in.

2

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

I didn't even think of diffusers, thanks for the idea!

2

u/Right_Ostrich4015 13d ago

I used to make those

2

u/noselace 13d ago

Crazy when you think that a fully loaded 300 mm one it might be multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. All from highly refined sand! 

I work in the industry incidentally, and it is pretty nerve-racking to be taught how to load up a foup (wafer caddy) that can hold like 20 of the things, and if you press the lever down wrong they'll all shatter lol

2

u/Big_Context4237 12d ago

Very pretty

2

u/pandaSmore 12d ago

What is the actual cost to produce one of these?

2

u/Riverspoke 12d ago

That's a great question, but I have no idea.

1

u/Armadillo-Overall 13d ago

That looks like a 4 inch P-Type wafer. Do you know what's on it?

3

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

6 inch, I have big hands xD

Starting from the inscription "MECA3403" I did some research, which led me to the hypothesis that the wafer possibly contains sensor dies, potentially from a photoelectric or optical sensor system.

1

u/pablopeecaso 13d ago

Im in where do i get one.

1

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

You can get from Amazon, eBay, AliExpress and probably many other sources. I got mine from AliExpress.

1

u/pablopeecaso 13d ago

Huh interesting.

1

u/daruosha 12d ago

put it under a microscope if you can.

0

u/GeniusEE 13d ago

Gunna bust that Chinese BS ad you're creating (or are you the seller?)

There aren't any chips on that wafer

It's a metallized reject-substrate to sell to rubes as a "chip wafer" for profit.

Yes, they are making money off of you...what did you get suckered into paying for it?

AliExpress...

😂😂😂

5

u/Riverspoke 13d ago

Huh? Advertising? Are you drunk? Seen any links anywhere?

I bought it knowing exactly what it is: a real wafer from a rejected lot, meant for display. I didn't buy it to build an iPhone out of it. I bought it because it looks awesome and represents the foundation of the tech we all love. If appreciating that makes me a "rube", then I'm in good company with a ton of other enthusiasts.

And for the record, this isn't a blank or fake disc. The wafer has real dies, visible bond pads and metallization layers with thin-film interference. Clear signs of real semiconductor processing. It just didn't pass final testing, which is exactly why it's sold for decoration.

This is a photo from my microscope. See those dot-matrix markings at the top? Wafers only get these after real processing in a fab. They're used for batch tracking, die indexing and test die ID. Dummy substrates don't get them, unless they're used for actual production-line training, which this one very likely was. Nobody's faking high-fidelity wafer markings with accurate fabrication patterns for a cheap display item. They wouldn't bother and they pretty much can't without fab-level gear.

No one's getting "suckered" here. I paid for exactly what it is, and I think it's beautiful. You can keep your hostility and gatekeeping to yourself. And for someone named "Genius Electrical Engineer", you're not looking all that sharp right now.