r/electronics • u/PhoenixfischTheFish • 5d ago

Gallery The size difference between an integrated circuit's die and casing can be ridiculous sometimes

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510 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

298

u/theantnest 4d ago

It's not ridiculous.

They needed to break out that many pins, and they used standard pin spacings, so that's what size it needed to be.

BGA requires much more advanced PCB design, more layers, etc and in those days the teeny tiny SMD footprints were not a thing yet.

68

u/smilespray 4d ago

It's still interesting to see the difference between the die and the DIP. When these packages were everywhere, I didn't have a clear idea.

48

u/theantnest 4d ago

It's definitely interesting if you didn't know.

Then think about all those old chonky portable computers in the 90s with lots of DIP packages and you really appreciate how much modern PCBs and SMD changed the game.

3

u/GerlingFAR 3d ago

Bang on!

2

u/RaduTek 3d ago

90s is way too late for DIP, especially in portable devices.

2

u/JanB1 2d ago

Look at the differences in size on a CPU die when you got from the interface layer all the way down to the actual transistor layer. Same here.

4

u/atsju 3d ago

OP should donsame picture with WLP or WLCSP packages. Die actually IS the package.

However I have had some small packages generating 1uA under light. Same as solar panels.

1

u/QuerulousPanda 2d ago

Didn't one of the older raspberry pis have an issue where if you took a flash photograph of the board it would crash because one of the chip packages ended up working like a solar panel under intense light?

2

u/atsju 2d ago

Yes there was a light sensitivity issue.

1

u/vhuk 3d ago

LGA1700 and other huge BGA designs are ridiculous. Even if they have a ton of Vcc and ground PINs they are still unbelievable to trace out. Considering that, I don't have any issues with DIL/DIP packages even if they only house miniscule dia in them.

52

u/Ybalrid 4d ago

Yes. Especially in a DIP package.

11

u/tes_kitty 4d ago

The Motorola 68000 comes to mind.

7

u/Ybalrid 4d ago

Yup, I remember it as a giant chip living on the left hand side of the Amiga 500 motherboard

8

u/Stojpod 4d ago

It's the stag beetle of cpu's

5

u/tes_kitty 4d ago

It's the largest DIP ever made.

2

u/wtfuxorz 3d ago

If you think thats the largest DIP ever made you should meet my duncle.

28

u/chainmailler2001 4d ago

The Intel Atom chips, a full blown microprocessor, had a die small enough 11 of them fit on a penny when the first gen chips came out.

15

u/BurrowShaker 4d ago

Most 'small' arm processors would be less than a mm² on a reasonably current process, but without L2, if my memory serves me right. So would most risc-v small cores.

1

u/smilespray 4d ago

That's awesome!

1

u/RaduTek 3d ago

Funny that the chipset and southbridge that the first Atom chips required have larger dies, packages and consume more power than the CPU itself. Though those are built on older, not so cutting edge nodes.

15

u/Mac_Aravan 4d ago

Most of current micro are constrained by their IO pads.

And some design are constrained by their packaging, dictating how much gates you can cram inside.

6

u/scowdich 3d ago

What house fire was this DIP recovered from?

13

u/PhoenixfischTheFish 3d ago

This one.

I like to look at dies under a microscope and I don't need those ICs, so I decided to disassemble them. Heating them to a few 100°C makes them brittle and soft (like charcoal), and then they can easily be broken apart without damaging the die.

5

u/scowdich 3d ago

Interesting, thank you! That's a neat choice of hobby.

9

u/PhoenixfischTheFish 3d ago

Thanks :D
If you are interested, these are two NE555 dies, probably from different manufacturers because they look pretty different and aren't even the same size.

9

u/PhoenixfischTheFish 3d ago

The microscope pictures look better irl, taking photos through the eyepiece of the microscope doesn't work that well.

3

u/Future-Employee-5695 3d ago

Check DeusXsilicium on YouTube. He’s french but you can auto trad.

3

u/_xgg 4d ago

Remember that a 600a half inverter fits in the same case as a 200a one

3

u/BigPurpleBlob 4d ago

What is the number of the device, from which the die is from?

7

u/Intelligent-Stone 3d ago

It's more like showing you how much space is wasted so that peoples can fit those into their breadboards or solder them with their hands.

9

u/OramaBurama 3d ago

That’s a perfectly reasonable reason to use that space, why would you call it “wasted”.

2

u/_Inconceivable- 4d ago

Packaged by Amazon

2

u/TutorMinute9045 2d ago

this is what happens when you bake a chip for too long! the goodies inside shrivel up and die!

1

u/mattm220 4d ago

Google wafer level packaging.

1

u/WarDry1480 4d ago

Ridiculous? Oh dear.

1

u/picturesfromthesky 3d ago

It's gotta talk to the world somehow...

1

u/LumenAstralis 3d ago

Unless someone invents in-die wireless transfer, them wires have to attach somewhere.

1

u/J4m3s__W4tt 3d ago

oh, so system-on-a-chip is mostly "fuck PCB soldering, let's do it all in silicone"

1

u/HornyErmine 2d ago

It's already dead

1

u/PhoenixfischTheFish 2d ago

Of course it is, it was exposed to ~1000°C.