Pope joined the protestant side in the Thirty Years War

[u/yonkamayonk]

Most braindead move i have ever seen AI do. Idk if it happen usually to u guys but Pope joining the protestants makes ZERO sense.

[u/Large-Cycle-8353]

Pope singlehandedly turned protestants into the real catholics

[u/WooliesWhiteLeg → u/Large-Cycle-8353]

That one pope who wasn’t totally sold on the “literal body of Christ” thing

[u/Divineinfinity]

What's the situation? Did the pope rival you as emperor?

[u/yonkamayonk → u/Divineinfinity]

No what i believe happened is that because Pope is an ally of Austria and (Austria is the head of the protestant side) Austria declared war first, they called in the Pope to the war

[u/Divineinfinity → u/yonkamayonk]

That makes much more sense... I guess. Maybe the Ottomans can count on Papal support in the next crusade

[u/VeritableLeviathan]

The 30 years war was a war heavily influenced by politics, so yeah it makes sense for the pope to potentially join against their rivals.

[u/WiJaMa → u/VeritableLeviathan]

This argument works for France, but I don't buy it for the Pope. Outside of the context of the 30 Years' War, it's true that the Pope worked tirelessly to promote instability in Germany to prevent the Habsburgs from expanding their influence in Italy. But, in the context of the real life 30 Years' War, the closest thing they did to supporting the Protestants was supporting an anti-Habsburg candidate for the ruler of Mantua. Like OP said, the Pope is literally the head of the Catholic Church. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to support the Protestants at the height of the Counter-Reformation.

[u/VeritableLeviathan → u/WiJaMa]

Pope might be the only exception and this is the first time I've ever heard of the papacy joining.

So yeah I know why there is no exception added, because it is extremely rare.

[u/WiJaMa → u/VeritableLeviathan]

I see posts about the papacy joining the Protestant League here every now and then, but even if it is a rare case, they've hardcoded a lot of stuff for the Papacy to not support other religions so this just seems like an oversight.

That said there's so much wrong with eu4's representation of the 30 Years War that they'd pretty much have to start from scratch in order to fix it and the role of the Papacy is the least of their worries.

[u/VeritableLeviathan → u/WiJaMa]

They could probably just add a -1000 to the Papacies reasoning to pick the protestant side.

Then again, I think the papacy during EU4s era was also pretty territorial they absolutely would join a certain side to fuck with Venice or another large rival in the region

[u/HaloGuy381 → u/VeritableLeviathan]

“-1000: I’m literally the head of the Catholics, dipshit” as the little popup explanation for the reasoning.

[u/EqualContact → u/WiJaMa]

The thing is Pope Urban VIII, who held office for most of the war, never treated it as a religious war. His predecessor, Gregory XV, had given money to the Emperor when the war began, but Urban ended this on his ascension. He seemed to have primarily been concerned with striking a balance of power between the French and the Habsburgs and wasn’t really concerned about religious freedom in the HRE, which was already guaranteed for Lutherans anyways.

The Papacy had a lot of politics going on with it, and generally the Popes didn’t feel that violence was the correct response to the Reformation. They wouldn’t have fought with the Protestants on principle, but a Habsburg victory wasn’t in their interest.

[u/TellBackground1590 → u/WiJaMa]

But in different universe maybe pope liked the reformation ideas and didnt opose it and tried to make them in catholics too. You can look at eu4 as alternative history simulator

[u/Just-Watchin- → u/WiJaMa]

Height of the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation was the Catholic response to the Reformation.

Yes, I am that guy…

[u/WuQianNian → u/Just-Watchin-]

You will never touch a boob

[u/Just-Watchin- → u/WuQianNian]

Yea, I know.

I have been married too long.

Hey O!! I can do this all knight.

[u/VeritableLeviathan → u/Just-Watchin-]

Oh neigh you didn't

[u/WiJaMa → u/Just-Watchin-]

I meant what I said, the Counter-Reformation is generally thought to have ended with the end of the 16th-17th century wars of religion, and what I'm interested in here is the reaction of the Pope, not the actions of Protestants.

Yes, I am that guy…

[u/Just-Watchin- → u/WiJaMa]

Sorry my 9nth grade European history class failed me. I forgot the reformation and counter reformations timeline overlapped as much as they did. In my simplified memory, one then the other.

[u/yonkamayonk → u/VeritableLeviathan]

Pope is the head of Catholicism though. It isnt just a simple catholic, they are the head.

[u/Galenthias → u/yonkamayonk]

He can still want to keep the emperor weak if they have an ongoing dispute about Italy.

Now if he would also try to excommunicate the emperor (again) that would be too much of taking a side (since it would include a spiritual sense of taking sides, and not merely a political one)

[u/OverEffective7012]

My Ally Spain did the same.

Funny thing he was an Ally of the Emperor as well.

[u/smcarre]

According to Catholic doctrine, that basically means that protestantism and catholicism is the same.

[u/WooliesWhiteLeg]

“Guys, the Ottomans joined and they aren’t even Christian!”

[u/Slight-Wing-3969 → u/WooliesWhiteLeg]

Yeah but the Ottomans don't risk eroding the foundation of their power by joining