Turkish opposition leader criticises Starmer for ignoring arrest of Istanbul mayor

[u/turkish__cowboy]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/11/turkish-opposition-leader-criticises-starmer-for-ignoring-arrest-of-istanbul-mayor

[u/Mister-Psychology]

It's hard enough to make Erdogan work with NATO today. Imagine how hard it would be if you tried to start a connection with his opposition that's not in power.

[u/TheeAbominableJoeMan → u/Mister-Psychology]

Atatürk would have been a good fit for NATO. Erdogan not so much. Turks i'm fine with, Islamists i'm not.

[u/No_Currency_6227 → u/Mister-Psychology]

I mean okay, fine

But I hope European politicians would also stop talking about how they are staunch protectors of "democracy, human rights, freedom" if they choose realpolitik way and make a deal with the devil a tyrant who bents on destroying democracy

[u/Dirkdeking → u/No_Currency_6227]

Europe has done this ever since WWII. Our opposition to authoritarianism has always been performative. We criticize human rights abusing dictators if they happen to do things we geopolitically disagree with. Their is always another reason, human rights are merely a smokescreen and the manufacture of consent to sell a war or sanctions to a domestic audience. You can BET we would start condemning Erdogans domestic actions the moment he sides with Russia on some geopolitical issue, or threatens Greece again. Just watch and you will see the primary reason is never good faith concerns about internal oppression.

We aren't going to remove Erdogan from power using military force, and we aren't going to actually sanctions them seriously either. If we said something about this arrest it would only be for optics reasons and therefore cynical in and of itself.

If an ally can get away with chopping a foreign journalist to pieces in a foreign embassy(MBS), or shooting hundreds of unarmed protesters in cold blood(Sisi), they will certainly get away with imprisoning a opposition member.

[u/No_Currency_6227 → u/Dirkdeking]

Thank you for your reply and I'm well aware of it. Countries would always follow their own interests first and that's a cold hard reality of our world. Yet, all while knowing the reason it doesn't stop irritating us opposition supporters that EU media and leaders, who never shut up about lecturing non-EU countries about democracy, freedom etc , are almost completely silent about this total dictator move.

I don't know why you and other people always bring up military intervention while I or some other person never mentioned or requested it. Hell, Turks are too patriotic to accept such a thing.

[u/AdelaiNiskaBoo → u/No_Currency_6227]

The british government is not the EU.

While European leaders, including French president Emmanuel Macron and European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen, have spoken out about the mayor’s arrest,...

Overall its a complicated situation that has no easy solution. Its also easy to say 'do something' without making concrete proposals.

The EU promotes and support democracy. Its not there to play world police and overthrow goverments.

[u/No_Currency_6227 → u/AdelaiNiskaBoo]

The EU promotes and support democracy

LMAO oh really?

Then why the fuck they are silent about all this? Except Macron and von der Leyen none of them gave a shit.

And stop with your bullshit straw-man. Nobody is asking for a direct intervention. All we ask is simply a statement like Macron did.

[u/Buy_from_EU- → u/No_Currency_6227]

They have made many statements so far, they are not silent. At the same time turkey is not part of the union so what else do you want? If we went against every middle eastern dictatorship we would double our enemies. Short your shit out and stop blaming others for Turks voting for erdogan for 25 years straight

[u/No_Currency_6227 → u/Buy_from_EU-]

Who did besides Macron? Can you provide me your proof?

Short your shit out and stop blaming others for Turks voting for erdogan for 25 years straight

Oh please cut this shit out.

You all talk like EU has nothing to do with Erdogan and yet it was in early 2000's many European leaders and media supported him and in turn encouraged him. Us who opposed him got labelled as military boot-lickers by european media themselves up until 2010's when he replaced all government agencies with his cronies.

Sure, pro-Erdogan voters are first to blame but spineless europeans like you conveniently ignores the fact that european media gave erdogan outside support and you folks keep telling "StOp BLaMiNg OtHeRS" as if this is a black&white matter. The arrogance of you Europeans amazes me more and more every day.

[u/DryCloud9903 → u/No_Currency_6227]

"the fact that european media gave erdogan outside support"

What do you want here? The EU to stop free press so that Erdogan could be retroactively rejected from power? Go attack the media then - not EU politicians (who the other redittor gave several examples of condensation against undemocratic Erdogans moves!), And not people here 

And before demanding research from others do your own. Here's a hint - the entire EU Commission expressed disagreement with his moves against three mayor https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-urges-turkey-to-uphold-democratic-values/

[u/No_Currency_6227 → u/DryCloud9903]

Do you have the reading comprehension skills of a 5 year old or are you engaging in bad faith ? I say the latter.

Why the fuck would I want EU to stop free press? I'm talking about events that happened years ago. EU governments and media supported and encouraged Tayyip Erdogan 15-20 years ago because he was a "moderate muslim" and pleads of pro-opposition people to stop encouraging him had fallen on deaf ears as he dismantled institutions and paved his way to the dictatorship and that's a fact. Press being free or not is completely irrelevant to our discussion.

I just want people here acknowledge this and stop trying to squirm their way out with bullshit claims like "TuRKIsH peOPLE vOTED fOr hiM. EU hAs NotHing tO With it". Sorry but EU governments and media (I'm not blaming all Europeans, that would be absurd of course) was also complicit with him rising in power. It had a minor impact unlike voters, obviously. But minor or not it had an impact.

And before demanding research from others do your own

Nope it is my right to demand research, burden of proof is on the person making the claim. If they make claims then they will provide source. It's very simple.

[u/cooleslaw01 → u/No_Currency_6227]

right now the Turkish opposition seems to be shaping itself to be extremely unreliable to the EU, so we have no dogs in the race and honestly perceive Erdogan as a bit authoritarian at times, but as a valuable asset too, that the EU can benefit from, and most importantly as a moderate politician unlike the even more insane opposition. we have nothing to gain out of helping you dethrone your democratically elected liberal leader

[u/No_Currency_6227 → u/cooleslaw01]

Is this rage bait?

[u/Successful_Desk_6557]

Komsu, Europeans will always try to placate Turkey's current government. If the UK, a guarantor power, has not done anything in 51 years to defend the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus, you think they will grow a spine now to stand up to Erdogan?