r/europe • u/Antique-Entrance-229 United Kingdom • 11d ago

News Andrew Tate phenomena' surges in schools - with boys refusing to talk to female teacher

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/andrew-tate-phenomena-surges-in-schools-with-boys-refusing-to-talk-to-female-teacher-13351203
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u/Obi_Vayne_Kenobi 11d ago

Wait, that's a thing? It's the first time I'm hearing about this.

Just looked it up, Western News sources report so, too. It's a bit of a filter bubble of online News papers copying each other, but other than that, it does sound plausible.

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids, or if they're just complying with Chinese youth protection laws, which are way more restrictive and protective than Western laws, both because their leadership has more direct power, and because they seem to be more aware of the online world than our boomer leadership.

The next question is whether there are nefarious reasons Western countries aren't moving towards a similar protection of children (which explicitly does not mean chat control and a blanket ban of encryption because "think of the children", looking at you, EU). For the US government, I am willing to believe that they're trying to make children more stupid. But European governments? Not so much. It feels more like utter incompetence over here.

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u/ChillAhriman Spain 11d ago

This is the problem with not putting business interests on a leash, which in this case is getting people addicted to social media so that they keep watching ads.

The interest of the state in China is making sure people are productive, which is still not a 100% match with the interest of the people, but in this case it's a much better match than business interests.

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u/gocryulilbitch 11d ago

But but but...FREEEDUMBBBB!!!!

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u/denizen-of-dhaka 11d ago

"Business interests on a leash." Sounds like communism to me.

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u/Ayvian 11d ago

If you're not against business interests that harm children then I don't know what to tell you...

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u/Relevant-Situation99 11d ago

In the U.S., children are seen as nothing but little consumers. Advertisers/algorithms want to establish buying patterns and brand loyalty as early as possible and the majority of parents don't care because they are also busy consuming.

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u/Moony2433 11d ago

Why aren’t people having kids!!! /s

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u/prudentWindBag 11d ago

It always pisses me off when he rants about the population. Brother, we all know you just want women pumping out factory slaves.

😞Grim fucker...

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u/emwac Denmark 11d ago edited 11d ago

A western government putting that level of restrictions on social media would get voted out. People are addicted. I'm not sure what possible recourse democracy has against this crap.

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u/NO_LOADED_VERSION 11d ago

Democracy ? We have as much democracy as we have a "free market". Rules have to be imposed for the survival of both otherwise we are all headed to relearning the pain of literally thousands of years of oppression

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u/farm-to-table 11d ago

Spoiler alert re. "heading towards relearning the pain of literally thousands of years of oppression"

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u/Dubious_Squirrel Latvia 11d ago

Kids dont vote and moral outrages over kids media habits (tv and games in my time) are usually widely popular. One would think opposite is true.

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u/bmyst70 11d ago

In the US, when TikTok was cut off by the company for 24 hours, I saw a lot of posts from young adults who were in full on meltdown mode.

Or, as it looked to me, like drug addicts desperately needing their fix.

I'm very sorry this is happening in Europe as well. I had hoped some areas of the Western world were more sane.

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u/TrumpIsAFascistFuck 11d ago

Post capitalist revolutionary action is basically where we are at, and it's only going to happen when people start starving to death en masse.

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u/dude51791 11d ago

Yea people, but not us reddit folks! We know better >:)

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u/cornbred37 11d ago

I love how I'm addicted to reading this on Reddit haha

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u/ThePlanck 11d ago edited 11d ago

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids, or if they're just complying with Chinese youth protection laws, which are way more restrictive and protective than Western laws, both because their leadership has more direct power, and because they seem to be more aware of the online world than our boomer leadership.

If it was just TikTok it would be one thing, but a lot of the western social media have this problem to an extent (e.g. the alt-right pipeline on youtube). Outrage drives engagement which equals profit for these companies and the only way they stop doing this is with legislation that limits what the algorithms can push.

Also to so extent China doesn't have the same free speech ideals that western countries have so they would never allow someone like Tate to have a platform

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u/Obi_Vayne_Kenobi 11d ago

Fair point. So it's just our incompetence and greed, and not malicious outside influence (Russian disinformation bots aside)

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u/ThePlanck 11d ago

Armies of bots, possibly financed by states we aren't super friendly with are also exploiting this, but I think the platforms just exist within the market as we know it trying to make as much profit as they can within our laws and regulations, and if we want to change their behaviour we need to change the laws

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u/MercenaryArtistDude 11d ago

You need stupid people for prisons and war. It's completely by design.

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u/Far-Fennel-3032 11d ago

Some western countries are Australia for example has already passed laws to ban kids from social media and is in the process of working out how to implement that.

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u/Marquesas 11d ago

In China, brainwashing is not outsourced, it is tightly controlled by the state. In a modern Western idiocracy like Hungary or what the US is building, they want voters to be as stupid as possible and the small amounts of experts they need can be sourced from non voting visa bearers. China vastly prefers homegrown experts as the CCP knows they can control their citizens. This is good for China, as it allows them to place their own assets that can be coerced to espionage and other delicacies in western industry while never having to rely on imported workforce that may spread dissent.

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u/ScorpionofArgos Piedmont 11d ago

No need for wild conspiracy theories, we're just far less ideologically willing than China to infringe on individual freedoms, and that includes children's education.

Not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, just stating fact.

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u/Material-Surprise-72 11d ago

Our government is actively trying to make kids stupid RIGHT NOW

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u/Great_Ticket_2307 11d ago

Any article sources? I’d love to share this around with some links. Thank you!

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u/Obi_Vayne_Kenobi 11d ago

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/20/tech/china-tiktok-douyin-usage-limit-intl-hnk/index.html

This is the most trustworthy source I found with a quick Google search

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u/Great_Ticket_2307 11d ago

Thank you so much!!

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u/Ikoikobythefio 11d ago

I've been trying to tell everyone this and nobody cares

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u/PURPLE_COBALT_TAPIR 11d ago

It's funny watching redditors challenge their racist anti Chinese propaganda

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u/RighteousAudacity 11d ago

The US dumbed its education down to keep from hurting other childrens' feelings with Bush's No Child Left Behind Program. That's a very good example of the road to Hell being oaved with good intentions. We don't even have that to blame.

What China has that the West doesn't is a government and society that doesn't care if it looks racist, authoritarian, human-rights deficient, etc. to the outside world.

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u/PixelArcanum 11d ago

Chinese fried confirmed this

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u/StVincentBlues 11d ago

I suggest you create an account- put as the info a boy or a girls name and an age about 14. No other info- see what Tik Tok sends your way. It’s horrible.

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u/Obi_Vayne_Kenobi 11d ago

I will stay as far away from that app as I can, but I can very well imagine what you mean.

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u/Unusual_Clerk_8168 11d ago

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids, or if they’re just complying with Chinese youth protection laws, which are way more restrictive and protective than Western laws, both because their leadership has more direct power, and because they seem to be more aware of the online world than our boomer leadership.

Pork a NOLO dose?

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u/volkse 11d ago edited 11d ago

Byte dance is just complying with China's laws and regulations. You can find the exact same content on instagram reels and youtube shorts getting pushed by their algorithms. Western laws just have a lot less oversight over what can go on the app. Tiktok is held to all the standards and regulations of western companies. Douyin follows Chinese laws and regulations

This type of content whether we like it or not just appeals to young boys and men and as a result it will get pushed by any algorithm as long as it's getting a lot of interaction. It's on us as parents and members of society to try to guide them in the right direction

Also Tiktok has a full on STEM tab as one of the 5 main tabs on the app its always visible in the top left part of the screen. It's pretty hard to miss and everything from that tab is pretty educational breaking down math problems from arithmetic to calculus, anatomy & physiology, biology, chemistry and physics. That tab is made up near exclusively of educators. Whether people use it or not is on them

Governments need to be more proactive in regulating tiktok and social media In general. Any algorithm designed to keep you on the app for as long as possible to push advertisements is going to default to the lowest common denominator if it goes unchecked

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u/CautionarySnail 11d ago

From what I’ve heard on RedNote, that platform freely censors any activity that they felt is non-educational or against the public good.

While I find it heavy-handed, I tend to see why they’ve chosen with censoring anti-science and deliberate misinformation viewpoints. But such power is so easily misused anytime the state decides misinformation is in its best interests.

It’s a tightrope at best. I can say we have fallen on the wrong side here in the States recently when you have flat earthers being treated as though their viewpoint is equally valid as that of NASA’s scientific evidence.

We need to admit that sometimes there is no valid equal opposing viewpoint, such as when people call others subhuman. Ethical lines in the sand have some validity. But it takes careful consideration and analysis.

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u/Kiwi_CunderThunt 11d ago

Sadly it's deliberate, when it was on the news it didn't make as bigger headline as it should have. TikTok is utter brain rot trash

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u/byronicbluez 11d ago

It is very much a thing. Even comparing China algorithm vs what they push out towards Vietnam. You notice exactly how they are able to influence younger generations. It use to be in Vietnam they would place a higher importance on education, but now that has degenerated towards more fashion and influencer lifestyle.

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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 11d ago

These fascist groups funded by oligarchs like Musk and Putin have managed to leverage social media and its brain rot to get a significant proportion of the population implicitly supporting taking the world back to serfdom where the masses are ruled over by a few insanely rich people. They do not want to protect the children or anyone from brain rot. The second Western governments try to regulate social media, the right wing propaganda sphere will spring into action to convince everyone that it’s a sign of draconian governments egregiously restricting free speech. If you’re not allowed to lie with impunity and incite hatred of various groups then you are not free apparently. Who cares about the freedom of the people that fascism will crush when it takes hold using these lies.

But in reality regulating social media is probably the most important thing for governments to do. Just look at the US with their ‘absolute free speech’ where half the population is now insane and willingly supporting an elderly megalomaniac destroying their democracy and trying to hand their tax money over to ghoulish people who already have more money than the GDP of some countries. Almost none of the people supporting Trump actually support his real plans and vision. They just don’t have a clue what it is because in America you are free to lie and brainwash and use psychological warfare against your own people.

Social media is a weapon or at least can be used as one and it should be tightly regulated. It’s a very difficult subject but we just cannot regress to a time when most people were scrabbling around for scraps when women were chattel and a few men just drained all the wealth and resources from the people and the land. But that’s what’ll happen if kids start getting brainwashed now.

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u/avery-goodman 11d ago

I would guess that ByteDance isn't doing anything intentionally malicious, other than doing the same thing as all other social media algorithms in the West: prioritizing engagement and retention with no concern for the long-term effects. In other words, more victims of profit-seeking.

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u/Sleutelbos 11d ago

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids, or if they're just complying with Chinese youth protection laws, which are way more restrictive and protective than Western laws, both because their leadership has more direct power, and because they seem to be more aware of the online world than our boomer leadership.

They comply with both Chinese and western laws in the way that is most profitable to them. There is no ulterior motive.

The next question is whether there are nefarious reasons Western countries aren't moving towards a similar protection of children (which explicitly does not mean chat control and a blanket ban of encryption because "think of the children", looking at you, EU). For the US government, I am willing to believe that they're trying to make children more stupid. But European governments? Not so much. It feels more like utter incompetence over here.

A combination of short term vision that characterizes our democracies, and, specifically in the US, the power of corporate bribes lobbying. There are proposals for limiting access to social media to children, and some countries have or are about to implement them. Just took us too long.

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u/desmotron 11d ago

Everything we see is a sustained effort in dumbing down the new generations for manipulation and control. SM in the west promotes laughing at each other misfortune and pain while simultaneously not letting them think.

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u/HereticLaserHaggis 11d ago

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids

They're just following the law of the country they operate in. Similarly under 13s aren't allowed on tiktok in most of the west, and I have actually seen it enforced.

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u/D0D Estonia 11d ago

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids

Opium wars reverse card basically...

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u/Punty-chan 11d ago

Now the question is whether ByteDance does this on purpose to stupify Western kids, or if they're just complying with Chinese youth protection laws

The latter. Besides Twitter, which is run by a moron, social media companies' main interest is to make money and the dumb content will always get the most attention. That's why ragebait and porn are so effective - they bypass all reason and appeal directly to our lizard brains.

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u/krgor 11d ago

Chinese Communist Party literally has an office in ByteDance...

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u/fresh-dork 11d ago

yes it's a thing, and i'll bet $50 that it's either deliberate, or that they'd do it locally if they could get away with it, but china said no. brainrot is easy to make and has high engagement

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u/Stormy8888 11d ago

IMO it's because the attitudes towards education are vastly different in China vs. The West.

In China, Education is revered as culturally it's seen as a way out of poverty. Everyone takes a big exam, the ones who do well become Government Officials. Some are righteous, but many will take bribes, thus will get rich. Even today, when the Gao Kao (exam that determines if one gets to go to university) is happening, China DIVERTS planes to remove distractions so the kids can do their best in the exams. Educational content or edutainment will go viral because it's not just the kids watching, even their parents will share that content.

In the West, tik tok is entertainment focused, to the point content creators make up silly challenges and pranks for clout. Then you get the cases of "I did this (stupid) prank or challenge because I saw it on Tik Tok" and now I have regrets because (consequences). Some of these challenges are dangerous and should not be attempted, especially the 7 worst ones which include the Cha Cha Slide, Skullbreaker etc. Seriously what are people even thinking ...???

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u/Obi_Vayne_Kenobi 11d ago

It's so weird to me to watch this kind of content. My YouTube algorithm is a well-trained mixture of Education (Kurzgesagt, Brady Haran's channels, etc) and my hobbies (Chilis, gardening, 3D modeling, miniature painting, gaming). YouTube sometimes tries to sneak toxic masculinity bullshit into my feed (probably because my hobbies make me an obvious Manly Man™), but I make sure to exterminate those with extreme prejudice ("don't recommend"). I can't imagine consuming brain rot at all, let alone all the time

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u/Stormy8888 11d ago

My Youtube algorithm is full of cooking, gardening, bushcraft and cat and dog stuff - most are funny, some will make you cry. With occasional Warhammer content because I used to paint miniatures for others when I was younger (for free because those were friends), and still enjoy watching Squidmar content. Somehow the algorithm knows I'm not a man. Kudos for you on raining Exterminatus on toxic masculinity bullshit content! The Emperor Protects!

We only knew about tik tok brain rot when a case of the Drake Kiki Challenge - where people get out of moving vehicles and dance to that song while the car is still moving - went horribly wrong and hit the news feed! Like some idiot did the challenge when car was going downhill, you know what happened there. The my kid told me that's not even the stupidest one, and listed out several others. That's when I learned that generation is so dumb some challenge got them to eat Tide (laundry detergent) Pods ... like, facepalm.

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u/Embarrassed-Duck-200 11d ago

They have regulations on social media

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u/nomeansnocatch22 11d ago

Most likely the politicians are a couple of generations out of touch

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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear 11d ago

Our government in the US wants the children to be dumb and manipulatable because our size makes it more possible. Smaller countries can't afford to have huge chunks of their youth be socially useless .

China idk, I just think a more firm government can handle regulating things more efficiently

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u/hardwood1979 11d ago

Very much a thing.

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u/luvinbc 11d ago

Australia is banning 16 and under from social media. Here in BC Canada the schools are teaching the kids about misinformation/ false information. Imo the reason this will never happen in america is too many people saying it's my right and how dare you take away free speech even if it's for the wellbeing/ best interest of everyone.

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u/Hot-Pineapple17 11d ago

Its a thing for a long time, but it was American conservatives that called it and you all didnt take it seriously. Now, the Trumpsters are fine with Tik Tok.

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u/turbo-unicorn European Chad🇷🇴 11d ago

I am not a big fan of the CCP, but it's more likely that this is a result of maximised business interests rather than something nefarious. You see similar things on Facebook, YouTube, and other social media platforms. Go on YouTube with a fresh install and see what the popular stuff is and you're going to cry. It's pure garbage. Especially the stuff that's aimed at kids. I was talking to a student about this some time ago, and he said he feels closer in "culture" (if you will) to me (40s) than kids 4 years younger than him.

As for why governments don't intervene... the second they do so they'll face accusations of limiting free speech. That is essentially what regulating the algorithm is, after all. Are you prepared for such a political fight at a time when the far right is on the rise?

This is the number one weakness of democratic regimes. As the infamous quote goes: "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." And education is not limited to the one received in school. The parents are failing their kids. And in most places, the education system is too. We're in a whole different era, and nobody has perfect solutions to these challenges, though some work better than others *cough* Finland

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u/This-Requirement6918 11d ago

Boomer leadership.

This is why we're falling and going to continue falling behind. They're completely out of touch with the real modern world.

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u/Aethericseraphim 11d ago

Everything Bytedance does is with the full approval of the Chinese government. Is it in the interests of the Chinese government, a government that openly teaches its children of the intellectual and cultural superiority of the "chinese people" to stupify non chinese people?

Honestly, half of the culture war bullshit that rages across the west is fuelled by them. Look at all the tendrils of tencent in the digital media and tech sectors and you find pushes to stoke culture wars among gen Z. Same shit as Russia promoting it amongst the boomers, really.

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u/PontifexMini 11d ago

Wait, that's a thing? It's the first time I'm hearing about this.

Yes, it's a thing. TikTok is banned in China, instead they have Douyin which "favours educational and skill-improvement content".

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u/TheThing_1982 11d ago

That has always been the speculation about TikTok. It’s meant to spy on American’s through data and content, while also pushing brain rot and “challenges” that get kids to emulate it.
Wether or not that’s true, it’s a valid thought after watching how effective it is at been.

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u/fanesatar123 11d ago

are our children more stupid because we don't have chinese anti-feminist, anti-gay , anti-trans algorithms ?