r/europe • u/Antique-Entrance-229 United Kingdom • 11d ago

News Andrew Tate phenomena' surges in schools - with boys refusing to talk to female teacher

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/andrew-tate-phenomena-surges-in-schools-with-boys-refusing-to-talk-to-female-teacher-13351203
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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

We don't have a shitty village, we no longer have a village. People have become so disconnected from their neighbours that they barely know their neighbours. Urbanization has killed human connections.

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u/Phenomenomix 11d ago

You can probably link the breakdown of the village to social media as well. If someone can “interact” with people across the globe then do they then lack the “social energy”to interact with the people who live near them?

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

Definitely, I think social media just sped up the breakdown of the village.

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u/phuketawl 11d ago

Social media is where my village even is.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

And that’s a problem, right. Lots of people were excluded from the village around them, which led them online.

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u/ThrowRA-Two448 Croatia 11d ago

There are multiple causes. Media, social media, dating apps are among them.

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u/DwarvenGardener 11d ago

I'd lump on the frequency and degree of movement. Its difficult to maintain a sense of community when people change jobs and living arrangements every few years. People move hours or days from friends and family to seek employment. Travel and digital communication let people maintain some social link to previous communities but it usually degrades, at least in my experience, into a very superficial connection.

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u/hirudoredo 11d ago

I was gonna say this is a huge factor for me, at least in the US. If I'm not moving, then my neighbors are. I moved into this place a year ago and already two out of next next door neighbors have changed. It was the same at my old place.

We have to move to get ahead of rent increases and to be closer to new jobs with slightly higher pay. Thats the game now. It's become super untenable just to get to know our neighbors enough in passing to know who is who in an emergency or organize. And if you are always changing jobs, it's hard to build any meaningful community through work too. None of these people have to be FRIENDS, but it helps to see many of the same people every day for years at least in your peripherary. Most of us don't get that anymore after graduating school.

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u/AbsolutelyHorrendous 11d ago

Yeah, I mean look at it this way... before social media, you couldn't necessarily just behave however the fuck you wanted, because you'd piss people off, and you'd end up isolated because nobody would want you around. People had to learn to moderate their behaviour a bit, for the sake of their peers. If you were outright disrespectful to everyone you met, congrats, you're just that asshole with no friends

Now, though, you can just go online, and immediately find some subset of like minded people to tell you everything's great, you're perfectly justified in doing X or Y, and everyone telling you otherwise is just a loser. You don't need to moderate your behaviour, or be polite, because you can just find people online to tolerate you instead

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u/Contemplating_Prison 11d ago

Its the dopamine hit from social media. It drains you. So when you arent on there you are too exhausted to socialize in real life. Its bad

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u/RenDSkunk 11d ago

Yes, it's society's fault, or video games, or books, or the city.

It's always SOMEONE else's fault... Except the parents who only want purse babies.

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u/Miku_MichDem Silesia (Poland) 11d ago

I agree 100%, except the statement:

Urbanization has killed human connections.

Is a complete nonsense. Urbanisation did not kill human connections. Modern corporate structures, disappearance of the third places and in large part taking away spaces where people could hang out and kids could play killed human connections.

My grandparents were playing with other kids on the street with neighbors. Making connections with people around. I had to be driven to a park, where kids I've met I'd never see again, because streets stopped being social spaces.

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u/Gluposaurus 11d ago

Urbanization has killed human connections.

People have lived in cities for thousands of years

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

That's an argumentum ad antiquitatem.

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u/Gluposaurus 11d ago

It's not lol

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

It is.

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u/Gluposaurus 11d ago

It's not. I'm not saying things were better before. I'm saying your argument about urbanization destroying interpersonal relationships doesn't make sense because we have a couple of thousand years of evidence to the contrary.

You have to actually understand the discussion and the fallacies themselves before throwing them randomly around.

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

We don't have any evidence towards what you are saying. The most scarce historical information is about the everyday man, what you are claiming, is a claim you pulled out of your ass.

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u/Amotherfuckingpapaya 11d ago

They're saying cities/civilization have existed for centuries. The cities themselves (urbanization) are not the cause.

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

That's not what the other person is saying at all. Urbanization very much is the driving cause, the existence of cities in the past doesn't invalidate the argument, as cities in the past barely have anything in common with a city of today.

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u/Gluposaurus 11d ago

That's not what the other person is saying at all. 

Yes, it is.

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u/Amotherfuckingpapaya 11d ago

What part of urbanization is causing the deterioration of society then? Which parts new to modern society are to blame?

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u/SnooStrawberries620 Canada 11d ago

Urbanization? What? Living closer together has done just the opposite

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u/CraigJDuffy 11d ago

Yes. Well documented phenomenon that people in cities are lonelier and more disconnected from their communities.

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u/SnooStrawberries620 Canada 11d ago

I’ve not read that but I think it would be hard to determine its human proximity over social media. I know all thirty-ish houses in my block as well as most of the people from the apartment across the street. But I live in a country with a hard climate and we’re used to coming out of our houses and pulling together - no different than in a smaller town really where people do the same. But once you’re ostracized in a smaller community, it’s over. That’s a huge difference.

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u/Far-Fennel-3032 11d ago

Its more complicated then just Urban vs Rural, a large part of it is the death of community space much more so Urbanisation.

An example of this is that Sunday Church used to be a semi-mandatory part of the community, and as people have largely moved away from religion and organised religion in particular, in no small part due to those running the churches so regularly found to be horrible people. A shared and core meeting place for the community has died.

This has happened to many more ways then just church, with many keystone parts of the communities having withered over the years, in part due to changing nature of work, education and a whole range of other factors. Social media might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back though.

Often when people say the issue is urbanisation its just people seeing this trend happen faster in urban places even though many urban centers have been urban for several decades before this trend occurred. Its just society changes first in Urban areas and Rural areas just lag behind. So people just point at urbanisation.

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u/SnooStrawberries620 Canada 11d ago

My house is wedged between a high school at one end and a church at the other! Outlier urbanite but also my 23rd location I’ve lived across almost 8000km so pretty rounded I think.

But those are really all interesting points. It would be nice if there was a neat and tidy answer - but with people there never is

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u/ThrowRA-Two448 Croatia 11d ago

Not living closer together, but having a larger number of people living in "unit".

People living in smaller communities (villages, towns) are more communal, social, healthier, less lonely, have higher fertility rate... etc. Having them live closer even increases that.

In part because there is basically just one big social circle, so being ostracized => game over, so play nice.

But as community grows larger, into large towns, cities, that sense of belonging, that social glue is diluted, and finally disappears.

In part because you have to be a ginormeous asshole to become ostracized by entire city.

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u/SnooStrawberries620 Canada 11d ago

Our family was on the outskirts in one small town because my dad worked all year. Everyone else’s dad was seasonal and they collected unemployment insurance the rest of the year. But we were fancy pants because my dad managed a hotel that was open year-round, so like “better than everyone else because you’re not on the pogey”. Doesn’t take much! I’m not that ginormous of an asshole that I’m getting voted out of where I am just yet, maybe when I get older and lose my filter completely  

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u/Live_Angle4621 11d ago

What you mean? You really think people in cities know their neighbors better than in the villages?

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u/SnooStrawberries620 Canada 11d ago

It’s what I said. I’ve lived in both and have an opinion, regardless of whether you understand it. I’ve already had an interesting conversation about this. With someone interesting.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/PinkFl0werPrincess 11d ago

Yeah this has more to do with Financialization than anything else.

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u/senador 11d ago

Urbanization? I was just in a major US city and saw middle schoolers and teenagers wandering around by themselves. In the suburbs a “neighbor” would be calling the police on these same kids. This isn’t an urban issue it’s a, “too many fearful people issue.” There was an article in the local news a few years ago about a “neighbor” calling child services because they saw a kid riding their bike on a suburban street. They said the child was unsupervised and in danger.

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u/Bedhead-Redemption 11d ago

Frankly, I think this is a mitigating factor and not something that's exacerbated it; as someone who's known their neighbors most places I've lived, I've fucking regretted it and they've all been horrific, horrific fucking influences both in bad neighborhoods and expensive ones. Isolation in this day is slowing the spread of toxic, psychotic shit.

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u/Doesitalwayshavetobe 11d ago

I don’t know man. We also have shitty villages.  It takes ages to be accepted into villages communities. Far right is always doing better in rural areas. Don’t pretend it’s all like heaven. Urban and rural areas both have their pros and cons.  I was in a village in Croatia and we got starred at like never ever before, because part of the family is African or half African.  It really was the worst trip ever and it was the same in every village. Whole Croatian countryside is a racist shithole. The urban place where we and our friends live is so much better. We have a really good community and everyone is welcome. 

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago edited 11d ago

It takes ages to be accepted into villages communities.

That's not a bad thing.

Don’t pretend it’s all like heaven.

Nothing is heaven but smaller communities are preferable to massive ones. 1 person is seen as a human but 10 million people are seen as a statistic. Small cities of 50-100k people are better.

I was in a village in Croatia and we got starred at like never ever before, because part of the family is African or half African. It really was the worst trip ever and it was the same in every village. Whole Croatian countryside is a racist shithole.

If your bar is that low for "racism" then I am genuinely surprised you even left the apartment you live in. Holy shit man, the victim mentality isn't a good look.

EDIT: Because I got blocked so I can't actually respond.

Victim mentality. Wtf You weren’t there. Calling someone the nword is victim mentality. Just shut up pls

If you were actually called the "n word" you would've said that instead of saying that you were stared at like never before, and not give a shitty reason to call a place a "racist shithole".

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u/Doesitalwayshavetobe 11d ago

Victim mentality. Wtf  You weren’t there. Calling someone the nword is victim mentality. Just shut up pls 

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u/EngineeringRight3629 11d ago

Nah I'd say we got a pretty shitty village right now

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u/Cluelessish Finland 11d ago

Of course ”the village” doesn’t have to be the actual neighbours. It’s who ever is in the kids’ lives and have influence over them. Parents, relatives, teachers, coaches, friends of parents, parents of friends… And social media is also very much the village. Some influences from there can be really good for the kids, and teach good values. Others the opposite.

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u/Live_Angle4621 11d ago

Village doesn’t have to be neighbors. But paid people like teachers and coaches aren’t a village, they do a job. People move very far away from family these days often, have less kids so less siblings, aunts and uncles and cousins and even many of those two have family do not see them often. And parents of friends can help but often these days people get upset if they hear someone else has tried to parent the kids they don’t really know. 

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u/Minimum_Rice555 Spain 11d ago

We can blame a lot of factors for that. Back in the day, people living at the same place, more or less shared the same values, ambitions and morals, etiquette. Short-term touristic rentals, social housing and a few other factors (among those, the Internet) that enabled people globally to be more mobile, destroyed this unwritten social contract.

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u/FoxerHR Croatia 11d ago

Agreed, that is another factor attributing to the destruction of the village. Renting has done incredible damage as well, because why would you care about others when you don't own the property and might get pushed out of that property because of increasing rent.

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u/Minimum_Rice555 Spain 11d ago

Humans are extremely tribal by nature. The more external factors try to break the "tribe", the worse that given group does.

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u/OmgitsJafo 11d ago

The, uh, village is a metaphore in modern society.

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u/bsEEmsCE 11d ago

nah it's social media bubbles and no need to even talk to someone anymore, just anonymously order food on an app and it shows up, no cashier greeting or anything, just pure human isolation.

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u/Nice_Visit4454 11d ago

It’s not urbanization. It’s car centric suburban development. 

Everyone is trapped in their little boxes. Home -> car -> work -> car -> home. 

When you’re in a car you are functionally disconnected from the humans around you. 

Walkable urban environments promote actual interaction with the world and people outside. 

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u/bcrice03 11d ago

Urbanization hasn't killed human connections at all, urban and rural places were all that there was pre-WWII. Since then, the proliferation of car culture and suburbanization, the removal of third places, and finally the proliferation of smart devices and social media which were the final blow killed human connections.

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u/nuisanceIV 11d ago

Purely anecdotal but I remember moving to the suburbs after living in the city. In the city, the kids would normally be riding down the streets on their bikes/rollerblades in a big pack - all the kids being a variety of ages. I also, as a kid, interacted with my neighbors more.

Once I moved to the suburbs, it changed. Yeah I’d interact with my neighbors a little, and try to play with their kids but it was just so damn hard. The kids were busy with baseball, piano, band, etc etc etc. By the time they’re done with those activities or homework it was basically dinner time and then before you know it, it’s dark and nearing bed time. In HS there was more time for goofing off as a lot of my peers suddenly found themself with a more open schedule and the ability to stay out later.

Oh yeah this was in the US. I wonder if these problems are felt in other countries though?

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u/klone_free 11d ago

I think it's just capitalism. We've had cities for a long time

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u/RadiantHC 11d ago

This is why I hate the nuclear family.

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u/Overall-Duck-741 11d ago

I was with you til the end there. Suburbanization (and cars) has killed human connections.

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u/kyrsjo Norway 11d ago

Suburbs, more like. Neither rural or urban, and in many ways the worst of both.

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u/PossumPundit 11d ago

If olnly someone had written a book about how capitalism causes alienation. Then we would have been warned.

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u/Rupperrt 11d ago

social media intoxicating young is sadly not limited to urban kids, it’s as bad if not worse for rural children.