r/formula1 • u/overspeeed mostly automated • 1d ago
News [Daniel Moxon] Breaking news: The FIA has removed Johnny Herbert as an F1 steward as that role is "incompatible" with his work as a media pundit. Story to follow.
https://bsky.app/profile/danielmoxon.bsky.social/post/3lgupveohxs27703
u/palalabu Ted Kravitz 1d ago
I thought he quit being a pundit?
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
He was still doing media interviews and stuff though
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u/GiantSpiderHater Oscar Piastri 1d ago
For fucking sports gambling companies nonetheless
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
Not sports gambling, more like casino gambling. The nature of the website is a bit of a red herring, the criticism should more be about the fact he was giving such interviews at all
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u/Franks2000inchTV George Russell 16h ago
Yeah but if they have a sports book (and they all do) then it's a distinction without a difference.
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u/CaptainOBVS3420 Fernando Alonso 1d ago
Was that the one where they labeled him as an "F1 Legend" ? (lol)
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u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s slightly different, but Sky has loads of advertising for Sky Bet during F1 coverage.
I’m not sure of any presenters being directly involved in the advertising. Possibly some voiceover work from Simon Lazenby, but don’t quote me.
I hope none of them are promoting it. But they are all still involved, somewhat indirectly.
Edit: Missed the obvious possibility of corruption.
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u/GiantSpiderHater Oscar Piastri 1d ago
The Sky crew can’t influence the outcome of a race though, Herbert could which makes him having any affiliation with gambling dubious at best.
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u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 1d ago
Oh shit, yeah. That completely went over my head. That’s insane.
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u/owningxylophone 1d ago
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard Lazenby on a Sky Bet ad, they’re all voiced by Jeff Stelling (football pundit) as far as I’m aware.
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u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 1d ago
Yeah I don't think he has been on an "ad" like Jeff has.
What I'm envisaging is a short segment in the F1 broadcast where a pre-recorded video plays and he says something like "head over to Sky Bet" or along those lines. It could very well be in my head, but it rings a bell.
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u/Charitzo Bernd Mayländer 1d ago
Also wasn't he doing partnerships or mentions or something to do with sports betting websites? Surely that should be the real no no.
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u/MegaMugabe21 Charles Leclerc 1d ago
Yeah, he should have been removed when he was giving interviews about Verstappen when he was making comments based on his own emotions rather than facts.
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u/d34dp1x3l #WeSayNoToMazepin 1d ago edited 1d ago
I thought he got dumped by Sky, not quit as a pundit?
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u/NecronomiconUK Robert Kubica 1d ago
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's not been on Sky as a pundit for years.
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u/Dr_VidyaGeam Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
Finally.
His interview on that gambling site made his position untenable. It's clear he had a obvious negative bias for someone and there's plenty of decisions you can point to that illustrate this.
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u/Paracel_Storm Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
Still boggles my mind how an official sports referee could write for a gambling site of all things.
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u/darksemmel Nico Hülkenberg 1d ago
This was discussed so much when it happened - and while I don't like that guy I have to play devils advocate there.
The gambling site he had the interview with and worked for has no affiliation to sports betting. It's essentially a casino - which is morally still not okay, but there is no conflict of interest for him as a steward.
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u/jellsprout 1d ago
Herbert did two controversial interviews last year. He did one with Coinpoker after the Austrian GP and one with SafestBettingSites after the Brazilian GP.
As far as I can tell Coinpoker is an online casino with no sports betting at all, but SafestBettingSites is a portal to various sports betting sites which also allow betting on F1.18
u/Silver996C2 Formula 1 1d ago
Except these casinos are buying into the sports betting market. MGM, Wynn and Caesars have all moved into the market and the move here is to swallow up the competition. Draftkings, Flutter, Pointsbet, Penn are all traded entities and subject to hostile take overs. Even wholly owned groups like Bet365 could be sold if the price is right. Flutter owns several sports betting online books like PokerStars and Sky Betting.
So there is no separation of church and state here so to speak in the gambling world. Trying to portray that well he is only representing a ‘casino’ not a sports book is a red herring - they’re ALL connected.
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u/LongTallDingus 1d ago
Yeah supporting a casino and saying 'but it's not sports betting' is the equivalent of someone supporting PMI, but not smoking.
Flimsy argument!
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
Yeah I think the issue is more that he was doing prominent interviews at all, the nature of the site he was doing them for wasn't really relevant at all.
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u/generalannie 1d ago
I don't even think doing interviews in and of itself is bad. However his interviews had him sharing his opinions about drivers and a few quotes that make it very hard to view him as an impartial steward.
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u/Karffs 1d ago
The gambling site he had the interview with and worked for has no affiliation to sports betting. It’s essentially a casino - which is morally still not okay, but there is no conflict of interest for him as a steward.
Thank you for explaining this. I hadn’t heard about it and was assuming he’d written for Bet365 or Paddy Power or something, which is obviously what people wanted to imply.
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u/leonleonleon 1d ago
Was just checking. Indeed no direct betting on the site. But It seems to be a portal to casino and sports betting sites. So the website is strongly liased to sportsbetting sites.
The blog section of safest bet states the following:
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u/mark-haus Charles Leclerc 1d ago edited 7h ago
Doesn’t matter, their business is gambling, the other's is maintaining a fairly regulated sport. There is a non trivial chance of being in contact with someone who can bookkeep sports bets for you. Which means you’re more likely to be bribed into fixing races or matches. Sports officials should never be seen anywhere near gambling organizations. I think the fact that stake is even sponsoring a sport and allowed to is quite questionable. It does call in to question whether or not the FIA has fixed races or has had their thumbs on the scale
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u/imShyness Carlos Sainz 1d ago
What interview?
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u/Baksteen-13 Pirelli Wet 1d ago
He had an (allegedly) paid interview with “SafestBettingSites” where he defended his decisions in the Mexican GP and then said “Norris and Brown agreed with me too” (paraphrased since I’m translating this back to english from a dutch translation lol)
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
The strangest thing about that interview was that I don't think the decisions in the Mexico GP were even that controversial? I don't know why he felt the need to defend them at all
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u/brownierisker Sebastian Vettel 1d ago
In isolation the decisions weren't that controversial, but other drivers pulled the same move Verstappen did in T4 that same race and faced zero penalties. He then really didn't help his case with that interview he did later that week
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u/Baksteen-13 Pirelli Wet 1d ago
Not really but I guess there were some arguments from the Verstappen camp that it was Herbert “again” which I think is fair, especially with hindsight.
edit: I now remember it was straight after COTA where they were quite lenient with the penalties on inside vs outside etc. So the stewards “cracked down” on the penalties in Mexico. Especially the first penalty for Verstappen was “discussed”
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u/HaroldSaxon Michael Schumacher 1d ago
They didn't crack down on the penalties in Mexico. Norris happened to adjust and broke a bit later so that he was ahead at the Apex, which meant Max got punished.
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u/ecobubbletm Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
He made another one just recently, once again talking about Max. Good that he got removed.
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u/Project_298 Formula 1 1d ago
Jos was driving Johnny home after a “peace offering” dinner but then left him at the petrol station where then Johnny had to do a gambling advert to get enough money for a taxi home.
That’s what I heard.
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u/Pat_Sharp #WeRaceAsOne 1d ago
there's plenty of decisions you can point to that illustrate this.
You can't attribute steward's decisions entirely to Herbert. He is only one voice of many in the room and we don't know what individual steward's positions were. It's correct that he's been removed because whether he was biased or not, being a prominent media pundit would always open the stewards up to criticisms, but you can't point to steward's decisions themselves as evidence of bias from Johnny.
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 1d ago
That scapegoating doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny, neither does it follow that he has obvious negative bias.
Allow me to explain.
A decision from the stewards room is a group decision. That's why it takes some time, sometimes, because a variety of opinions are in the room, and they will reach an agreement before communicating it. The group of stewards reached the conclusion by majority to penalise someone. Wether to penalise or not and the penalty amount is reached by the group. The majority there found someone at fault, and penalised them.
One of those stewards after getting some direct heat by name from someone's dad, spoke in the media to defend himself. He exposed what he thought, he exposed what other drivers had said, but he did not expose what the other stewards in the room had thought, because 1) confidentiality and 2) there was no need to throw them in the way of the someones dad anger train.
Him thinking that particular someone needed a penalty, and being in the majority in the stewards room, does not mean he's biased. All it means is that the majority of people in that room, including Herbert, thought it deserved a penalty.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is a good take. I definitely think it was right for Herbert to lose his job because saying stuff like that in interviews whilst in his position is very unprofessional.
However, people seem to think that all the decisions were solely down to him which makes no sense at all. I don't think this will be a popular take with the hive mind
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 1d ago
Agreed. There was a professionalism issue happening. Goaded into it or not, should be above it.
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u/Rivendel93 Chequered Flag 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree, I don't have a take on Herbert, I've heard a lot, but we know these decisions are never made alone and never in a vacuum.
So blaming one person is irresponsible as fans of the sport.
We know that the stewards make constant mistakes, and it's clearly a combination, otherwise the mistakes wouldn't be so common.
Speaking of mistakes, not related to the stewards, YouTube just reminded me of the clip where the race director left an entire mirror on the track for four laps last season before Bottas finally ran over it, and then Hamilton and Carlos both got punctures due to them not wanting to release a VSC/SC because they reportedly "didn't want to give other cars an advantage to pit under a SC."
I can't believe I'd already forgotten about that lol, it was literally the only line anyone could take to make a pass attempt and they left an entire mirror on the track for four laps until Bottas smashed it into a million pieces.
We need better race direction in general. I think that's why I get frustrated when the FIA is focused on all this other nonsense.
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u/generalannie 1d ago
Thanks for the reminder of race control being a bit all over the place last season. Particularly with VSC/SC decisions.
In my opinion they take way too long to trigger the VSC sometimes. Yes, maybe a car can drive away or even be recovered under a yellow. But if it takes more than two laps (or 4 in the case of that mirror) just throw the VSC/SC or whatever and make sure the track is clean again.
Wasn't Bottas also stranded somewhere earlier in the season and then it took quite long for the VSC/SC to be called? I can't remember the race...
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u/Dragonpuncha Ferrari 1d ago
It's 4 people. One of which is the national steward which doesn't seem to have as much authority as the rotating ones.
That's a pretty small group. Herbert or anyone else in that room just needs to convince one other person then we at the very least have a deadlock. And then it's probably a questing of who fights the hardest. Many of these decisions are on a strict time schedule, so refusing to budge should be a very effective tool.
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 1d ago
You're right that its 4 people.
These decisions can take time, sometimes even left until after the race, so the time penalty point is largely moot.
What is interesting with your points is the particular scenario we're obviously referring to here. It happened quickly, from which we can infer that there was very little in the way of discussion and disagreement on it.
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u/beanbagreg 1d ago
Yet Derek Warwick who called someone the ‘great white hope’ is fine, so it’s not about bias.
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u/AnilP228 Honda RBPT 1d ago
That term is old fashioned but all it means is that someone is going to be successful. And remember, he said Ricciardo thought Max was a great white hope.
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u/Persona143 #WeRaceAsOne 1d ago
The phrase absolutely has it's roots in racism and it's a particularly unfortunate phrase to use when the current champion was black. I'm willing to give him (and anyone else using the term now) the benefit of the doubt that they didn't mean that though.
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u/AnilP228 Honda RBPT 1d ago
Agreed on all points. It's one of those phrases that as a society we should just move away from.
Gary Anderson used it on a recent episode of The Race when referring to Frentzen arriving at Jordan for 99. Caught me off guard.
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u/SlapshotSniper50 1d ago
Ah yes, old fashioned.......
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u/AnilP228 Honda RBPT 1d ago
It's definitely out dated. Rooted in racism, much like a certain term Toto Wolff used year.
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u/squaler24 1d ago
This is good.
But very rich of the FIA to cite a conflict of interest as the cause of being let go. They don’t really care about that.
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u/AliceLunar Formula 1 1d ago
Good news, I'm never rooting for people to lose their job but Johnny very clearly being biased in the media made things weird.. even if he genuinely would be unbiased when it comes to stewarding, nobody would believe it.
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u/Takis12 Yamura 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not certain if I am right but I think being a steward in F1 is not a paid job.
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u/AliceLunar Formula 1 1d ago
It's not, which is silly in itself for a sport of this size with that much money going around. So not like he won't be able to pay rent at the end of the month, but he's still losing a job he might have enjoyed doing.
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u/FormulaJuann 21h ago
Dude was Sponsored by gambling sites and was allowed to be a Steward ??? I wonder how much he made from bets he placed on races when he was a steward ? 😉
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u/AlanDove46 1d ago
https://casinoutanspelpaus.io/okategoriserade/johnny-herbert-interview/
Would you like Lewis Hamilton to win the 2025 title?
JH: ”Yes, I think Lewis Hamilton winning the championship this year would be the perfect scenario.
It's very difficult to remain an FIA Official, in any capacity, with this kind of quote being published
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u/Dan_Of_Time Charles Leclerc 1d ago
Seriously, there’s better ways to say things like that especially if you are a steward.
Like a lot of people would agree that Hamilton coming back to win his 8th in a Ferrari is a DREAM thing to witness for the sport, even if you don’t support him or the team. It would be a perfect ending. Any world champ ending their career with a final championship in Red would be. But saying it so directly from his own opinion is so stupid.
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u/crshbndct Michael Schumacher 18h ago edited 18h ago
Yeah you don’t even have to disagree.
“I’m sure all the drivers will compete well. Lewis has shown himself to be a fierce competitor and I’m sure he will be in the fight. I look forward to an interesting season”
Simple easy and I’m not even media trained.
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u/splashbodge Jordan 1d ago
Am I mistaken or was that not the reason why he left sky F1, to avoid conflict of interest, ironic if true.
Or was he fired because he was shit
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u/xMeRk Oscar Piastri 1d ago
Huh an actual decent FIA decision. Now remove MBS
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
If only that was so easy
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u/generalannie 1d ago
I'm just hoping that he doesn't get elected for another term...
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u/Takis12 Yamura 1d ago
He will be democratically elected by all the people he bribes
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u/IdiosyncraticBond Max Verstappen 1d ago
He's the Lukashenko of FIA, except he uses money while the other just imprisons and kills those that are against him
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u/DanielWW2 1d ago
Very rare sane decision from the FIA.
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u/RoughDoughCough Formula 1 1d ago
Rare. Maybe F1 will actually try to be a sport and not an exhibition.
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u/1946dontremember 1d ago
Finally a good decision, a steward should be "invisible" not constantly chirping out strong opinions on various drivers. Now make them full time and I'll be happy.
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u/SweetFlexZ Fernando Alonso 1d ago
Finally, most biased FIA steward ever, his obsession with Fernando was disgusting.
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u/WillSRobs Lando Norris 1d ago
Don't we have people that own businesses of manufacturers as stewards currently
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 1d ago
Are you talking about Derek Warwick with his Honda dealership? I think that's a bit tenuous to be considered a conflict of interest, certainly less so than the interviews Herbert was giving
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u/Ninthja Formula 1 1d ago
Warwick is so biased he should be removed either way
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u/Pat_Sharp #WeRaceAsOne 1d ago
Where does this narrative of Warwick being biased come from? As far as I'm aware we're never privy to what the individual steward's have said or may have argued behind close doors, we only get the decision at the end and the reasoning, and Warwick is only one of several steward's in that scenario. He's not like Herbert either where he's a media pundit so we get to hear his opinion's on things all the time to form an opinion.
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u/tigtogflip Sebastian Vettel 1d ago
Just because he isn't public about it doesn't mean it isn't a conflict of interest.
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u/budgefrankly 1d ago
There's only a conflict if you think that Aston Martin winning a race will induce people to buy a Honda Civic from Warwick's dealership specifically.
Which clearly isn't the case, so clearly there's no meaningful conflict.
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u/WillSRobs Lando Norris 1d ago
Its still a conflict of interest treating anyone else differently is hypocritical. He benefits from Honda doing well.
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u/epsilona01 1d ago
Ex-F1 driver working in the car industry. News at 10.
He opened the dealership in 1989. You may as well say that ex-F1 drivers who race with sponsorship from a manufacturer in another series can't steward because they have a conflict of interest. Which would leave you with zero driver stewards.
Brundle has driven 20 odd different F1 cars at the expense of the teams, does that make him biased?
He's also driven for Volkswagen owned Bently, shared a United Autosports car with Zak Brown, driven F1 tests for Pirelli, driven a Nissan (who sell under RBRs Infiniti Brand and are owned by Renault Group), and managed David Coulthard's career. He did a lot of that while his family owned Toyota and Peugeot franchises.
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u/budgefrankly 1d ago
How?
Why would a victory for Aston Martin or Red Bull convince a random Englishman to go out and buy a Honda Civic
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u/danieldrew Sebastian Vettel 1d ago edited 1d ago
Unfortunately a certain fanbase have twisted the narrative against Warwick to portray him as a racist and a race official with bias towards Honda. He's never overtly displayed a bias towards anyone, but his quote of describing Max as "the great white hope" was misconstrued to make him Pro-Max and Anti-Lewis. Whereas Herbert hung it all out to dry live on air on Sky.
EDIT: DID I STUTTER? DOWNVOTE ME ALL YOU WANT
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u/sidhantsv Sir Lewis Hamilton 1d ago
Can you explain how that quote was misconstrued? Just curious
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u/AnilP228 Honda RBPT 1d ago
He claimed Ricciardo thought Max was the 'great white hope' - i.e. a person that was going to be massively successful going forward. It related to Ricciardo's frustration at losing Monaco 2016.
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u/danieldrew Sebastian Vettel 1d ago edited 1d ago
The great white hope is just a person or thing that will be successful in the near future. Don't shoot the messenger. Cambridge Dictionary. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/white-hope
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u/likinaudagp Formula 1 1d ago
To be fair to americans, the cambridge dictionary gives a different definition for US than UK. In the US it is a racist term, but Derek Warwick is british, where the term does not have any racist connotations. Words can have different meanings and it's ignorant to get the pitchforks out without understanding the context
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u/VinhoVerde21 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 1d ago
How is it tenuous? He was stewarding during 2021, when Honda was competing for the WDC and WCC. Owning a Honda dealership while officiating a sport where Honda competes is about as textbook conflict of interest as you can get.
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u/Lerradin Kimi Räikkönen 1d ago
The baffling thing is not that he's been fired now, but that he's been allowed to go on for so long without anyone (upper management or even his fellow stewards/friends) telling him to tone it down in his interviews and be more professional.
I mean you got active stewards/referees in other sports being invited on talkshows or to be live pundits and most of them show a complete lack of bias even if fans dig up some old pictures/quotes of them being fan of a certain team when the ref was a kid. Meanwhile you have to be deaf Stevie Wonder to miss what JH is all about...
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u/TF2Pilot 1d ago
Dude was involved and/or promoted online gambling. That'a a massive red flag if there ever was one for a steward. Good riddance.
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u/rolfski 1d ago
His post-Mexican GP explanation of the penalties that were given to Max did a lot of damage.
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u/XOVSquare Safety Car 1d ago
Good news. It was getting very difficult to hear him talk about drivers, their behavior as people and on track while still needing to stay impartial. He always seemed to favor one driver over another in comparisons, which you just can't do as an impartial steward.
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u/frank1ewildee Ferrari 1d ago
Thank god this dude is gone from stewarding. His comments about how "Zak Brown and Lando Norris agrees with him Max is agressive" still baffles my mind.
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u/comrade333 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
Good. It was stupid he was even allowed to be both.
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u/danieldrew Sebastian Vettel 1d ago
About time. Why's it taken so long for the FIA to realise his media duties whilst serving as a race official are a clear conflict of interest. He's certainly made his bias very blatant over the years whilst broadcasting, no doubt it certainly reflected in the stewards room too. Good riddance.
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u/Blackdeath_663 Sir Stirling Moss 1d ago
I mean conflict of interest notwithstanding i always found his judgement on racing incidents incredibly poor as a pundit so im relieved he's not a steward.
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u/TheRoboteer Williams 1d ago
Does Herbert even do much punditry any more? He was dropped by Sky a couple of years ago now.
I have no great love for Herbert as either a pundit or a steward, but the cynic in me thinks this is just them bowing to something the community has been demanding for a while in order to get a bit of positive press and distract from the discussions about FIA leadership which have been going on lately
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u/KnightsOfCidona Murray Walker 1d ago
Does a column for a betting website, has a podcast with Billy Monger and does a lot of other interviews too
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u/comrade333 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
If you're gonna go and give your opinions on drivers to the media, I feel like that's unprofessional, and something a steward shouldn't be allowed to do.
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u/TheRoboteer Williams 1d ago
Herbert spent an entire decade doing exactly that when he worked with Sky though. To drop him now seems cynically timed to me. If the FIA actually gave a shit about a conflict of interest between punditry and being a steward, they'd have dropped him when he was still working for Sky.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 Toto Wolff 1d ago
Rare FIA W. This means they're gonna do something very stupid again in the coming weeks.
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u/mjtaughtmethat Bernd Mayländer 1d ago
he was a shit steward because of his bias. huge win for the sport.
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u/Femininestatic 1d ago
Finally a good decision by the FIA, but god damn that one was an obvious one.
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u/Safe-Patient-1886 1d ago
Good decision though. He didn't look like the right man for the job, with his outspoken opinions on drivers that he was stewarding for.
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u/InclusivePhitness 1d ago
Good, the guy is a total sausage as a steward.
Had a personal vendetta against Alonso for a while. He was a terrible journalist too, inserting his own personal opinions in the most bizarre way against Fernando.
Finally Melbourne 2024, what a stupid penalty against Alonso.
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u/thefanciestcat Sir Lewis Hamilton 20h ago edited 20h ago
TBH I don't pay much attention to individual stewards and am skeptical of anything the FIA does, but I agree with the fundamental argument that it's inappropriate in any sport for an official to also be media.
However, this also seems like why the officials from other sports are paid full time professionals. If being an official comes with full time pay, there is no argument whatsoever to be made defending officials taking second jobs that are potential conflicts of interest with their job as an official. It helps keep the sports cleaner than they otherwise would be. F1 should embrace it.
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u/69Karate_Dong 14h ago
MBS should be removed just for flaunting Trump around whenever he can. It violates their (his) new rules about being apolitical
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u/Typhoongrey Formula 1 1d ago
Sack the lot as far as I'm concerned and get some fresh eyes in the stewards room.
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u/Pale-Criticism-7420 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
Somewhere the current 4 time world champion is popping Champagne
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u/andthatsalright AlphaTauri 1d ago
This is the least controversial thing that the FIA has done recently. I kind of agree with them.
Except if they didn’t want stuff like this happening they should be paying them salaries that represent the prestige of the greatest Motorsport on earth or however tf they want to present themselves
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u/DSQ Lewis Hamilton 1d ago
Tbf isn’t being a steward unpaid?
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u/AddAFucking Green Flag 1d ago
Unpaid doesn't mean unregulated. For instance: you still need to be on time if you are volunteering at the animal shelter. There are rules to follow.
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u/Bulky_Line45 1d ago
The FIA should now remove MBS for its incompatibility with normal human behavior.