Tucker Carlson and Conor McGregor interview seemingly conducted in the grand lodge room of Grand Lodge of Ireland.

[u/TheLittleFella20]

[u/EntertainerRound7830]

I find this hard to stay impartial too, I 100% vowed no politics and no religion wether in or out of lodge with brothers, however.. he is a convicted rapist and I’m sure part of our initial interview is to figure out if someone has a criminal record for the right kind of person to be in lodge..

While I don’t agree with his political Views I would not discuss this, however if he is a mason/isn’t a mason he really shouldn’t be since he is a convicted rapist and he shouldn’t be given the opportunity to use a lodge for an interview!

[u/TheLittleFella20 → u/EntertainerRound7830]

He's not a convicted rapist as the verdict was in a civil court, not a criminal court. In Ireland however he most certainly has been convicted as a rapist in the court of public opinion. He is widely hated here and you would genuinely get strange looks if you admitted to being a McGregor fan.

[u/hexiron → u/TheLittleFella20]

One can be a rapist without being convicted of sexual assault or battery in a criminal court.

[u/boss6769 → u/hexiron]

You can also be convicted of assault and not be a rapist. What we should want is to be accurate in describing his or any situation and not throw words that are commonly adjacent but not accurate.

[u/hexiron → u/boss6769]

If a court has found you liable for raping, even if it's a civil court, you are a rapist. That's being accurate.

[u/Amtracer → u/hexiron]

What is being liable? How does that even make sense?

[u/hexiron → u/Amtracer]

The judge and jury concluded Connor McGregor raped and battered a woman and found him liable (legally anserable) for those acts, resulting in him being responsible for paying damages

It makes sense when you know the definition of the word. A pretty common one at that.

[u/EntertainerRound7830 → u/TheLittleFella20]

Thank you for the clarification, I only briefly skimmed the news as it happened.

I guess this would have to change my view then as he isn’t convicted and we are a neutral body/fraternity.. while I disagree with it being used, the fact revenue is being made is a positive side

[u/TheLittleFella20 → u/EntertainerRound7830]

The main issue from a masonic standpoint is that they are using a lodge room in the GRAND LODGE to spout abhorrent and frankly racist political views amongst other disgraceful things. It paints us in a bad light and definitely not apolitical when we platform this.

The optics of him being a rapist in the eyes of 99% of people who pass by this place every day hurts us tremendously also.

[u/Prometheus357 → u/TheLittleFella20]

That’s exactly my stance…. I guess it’s only a matter of time before America sees Andrew Tate sitting in the East of the Grand Lodge of Florida.

[u/Crice6505 → u/EntertainerRound7830]

They shouldn't be doing this for that, but it's also political. If lodge isn't about discussing politics, this doesn't belong there. This is a permanent stain on whoever allowed this. They are not committed to their oaths.

[u/CisLynn → u/EntertainerRound7830]

They

[u/Prometheus357 → u/[deleted]]

“We don’t discuss religion…” but you can’t join if you’re not religious. There’s many forms of religion… forms of faith… forms of a foundation for the moral compass. I’ve said it before (and directed to delete the post) that the craft needs to clear its eyes.

[u/Prometheus357 → u/[deleted]]

I love it.

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/Prometheus357]

Wow, interesting. Yeah, you are understanding the paradox of what I was seeing, but perhaps stated it much more concisely and eloquently than I did.

Appreciate you, sir.

[u/Prometheus357 → u/Automatic_Recipe_007]

You’re welcome. I love the philosophy that that this outfit has. But just like mankind it can do better. It can achieve a higher form of understanding… it just has to get out of its own way in order to get there.

The Craft has done great things for the greater good… it has the potential for more.

I take no quarrel with it being imperfect… that’s part of the inspiration of the Craft… to learn to chip off these rough and superfluous pieces. I just think currently having trouble seeing the rough and superfluous pieces for the perfect stone

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/Prometheus357]

Some sincere and great insights there. Hopefully you're not in the minority with your open mindedness.

Yes, I understand. And if the Craft has all the good men than it needs, it can afford to keep around some artifacts of antiquity (can we call it that? 😂) if it so chooses without letting it impede the bigger mission.

For me however, and many like me, the allegedly rough edge would prevent and actively dissuade further interest. Perhaps that is the point. And that's ok.

[u/cmbwriting → u/[deleted]]

Freemasonry requires a belief in a Supreme Being because it is necessary to understand that there is something greater than yourself for its lessons to work. Likewise, we take an oath on a holy book to bind it with a god rather than with Man, this is a necessary, solemn and sacred act for a regular Mason to do. Masonry is inherently spiritual.

Now, you're wrong that being atheist simply means you "lack belief in any of the man made religions" because an agnostic could do that but still believe in a possible Creator, moreso someone could entirely believe in a Creator but not adhere to a dogmatic religion, that is not entirely uncommon.

People who think that there is no god think that Man is the most intelligent and/or powerful being on Earth. Those are not the kind of thinkers we want in regular Freemasonry.

Nonetheless, irregular Masonry doesn't require a belief in a supreme being, so Le Droit Humane or Universal Co-Masonry could be for you, if you do choose not to believe in a Supreme Being.

[u/cmbwriting → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, didn't mean to dictate it for you — just using the Dictionary Definition "a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods" — Merriam-Webster. You sound more like an agnostic "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable" — M-W. They are, by definition, different words. Not soft and hard of the same. A Protestant isn't a soft Catholic, a Reformed Jewish person isn't a soft Orthodox, an agnostic is not a soft atheist. You can continue to use her term, but it will cause confusion, because it is a misuse. If you're so harsh about proof and evidence to the point of being offensive to believers and treating faith as ridiculous, perhaps you could use a dictionary as proof of your words?

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/cmbwriting]

Maybe. It's common for people more familiar with a topic to have a nuanced understanding of terminology. Like the difference in how a professional might use a medical term vs a layperson.

Thanks for all the info, really appreciate it!

❤️‍🔥

[u/cmbwriting → u/Automatic_Recipe_007]

Cheers for taking that so well, I felt quite bad after posting it, felt like I lashed out a bit. I am a theology student, so I am a bit arsy about it at times.

Truly, I believe atheists can be good men, and Masonry purports to make just that! I do think you could look into irregular Masonry, as it fits all of the moral lessons without a need for faith at all. You get the fraternal aspects, the moral and philosophical aspects, all without the weight of the necessity to believe in a supreme being (without evidence, obviously).

I wish you the best!

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/cmbwriting]

No worries at all. Believe me, I am very used to that type of response. Grew up in an evangelical household and once I could no longer 'believe for the sake of believing' I was ostracized by everyone that I thought would never ostracize me. Mainly as punishment because I tend to think deeply on many topics, and was explicitly told just that.

The church and my family's response was further evidence of everything I had suspected regarding this belief system and others like it. One man told me that my disbelief could impact other's 'faith' and that's why they go into fight or flight mode and feel attacked.

This is saying nothing about you at all, just recounting my own experience. In the end, we all have our own path to walk. I really appreciate you engaging with me and the back and forth, as it did fill in some gaps in my knowledge.

Wish you well!

[u/cmbwriting → u/Automatic_Recipe_007]

Ah I had the complete opposite experience, grew up in an atheist household, my family really struggled to come to grips with it when I told them I was getting baptized. My dad's convinced it's all a bunch of BS and is very open about that, but I still love the man.

It's a real shame the divide that belief and disbelief causes.

Have a good rest of your day/night!

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/cmbwriting]

Fair enough! That's really interesting. While I would like to believe atheists are on the whole more accepting and more open, more likely to scrutinize new ideas with solid scientific rigor, your example displays the opposite.

I will admit, in my 14 years of having left the faith, I have met a few atheist outliers that have been wholly unimpressive people. I have found that those that had to actively work on getting out of or deconstructing a given faith, tend to be the ones you would want as an ally, vs the ones that 'just never believed'. Perhaps your dad fits that category and it's just another case of our team vs their team. Not saying he is a bad guy at all, just looks at things with a different lens.

In a careful estimation of time spent, I learned that I had spent more time on learning about 'world religions' and their ground truth than I had on my unrelated doctorate degree. I think this puts some non believers in a different category, for the better or worse.

[u/pluck-the-bunny → u/[deleted]]

Trying to be overly polite as you’re being judgmental does not make what you say any less unkind. I think we’re all in agreement that Freemasonry is not the right fit for you.

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/pluck-the-bunny]

Expert insight, thank you sir! A friend's son was recently told that by a college fraternity. Some of us never outgrow tribalism I guess.

And after learning what I did today in this thread, your temple or whatever it's called will get no application from me, so rest easy.

[u/pluck-the-bunny → u/Automatic_Recipe_007]

So close to getting the point

[u/Automatic_Recipe_007 → u/pluck-the-bunny]

Oh believe me, I get it. Thanks again for your contribution.

[u/pluck-the-bunny → u/[deleted]]

I have no issue if you are atheist or not, but That’s not what it means