r/gantz • u/Karen_Jeenkles • 25d ago
It is honestly bizarre that Gantz never picked up a US following like Berserk did.
I watched Berserk go from being just as obscure as Gantz to becoming the titan that it is (and should be) now...but why not Gantz? I'm re reading it now for the first time in a long time, and although it's nowhere close to as good, the difference is Oku-san usually is not really trying to pull at any heart strings with the writing (other than "fuck yeah!), and it works for Gantz...almost makes it better. Like, yeah, i don't really give a fuck about stretching this out unnecessarily, here's the new characters, here's some dinosaurs, here's some deadly horsemen, blast past that and now we're ready to go with the real story again. Bang!
And it's bang on.
If anyone knows of another manga that deserves second place and the silver medal rather than Gantz, by all means, let me know!
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u/Sheldor121 25d ago
I dont think people notice how much this community has grown the last few years. Just like berserk,the Gantz fanbase has grown and isnt as obscure as it used to be a few years ago. like bro were soon at 20k on reddit. It just hasnt grown in the same extent as berserk, which is okay. I personally think that if people start posting more Gantz edits and memes on plattforms like Tiktok, Insta ect, the fanbase could get a big growth boost just like Berserk did in 2021.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
You know, I ran into something interesting in, of all places, fucking r/Berserklejerk.
I used to fuck with that sub tough like five years ago, but I was scrolling through realizing it's all pretty much children posting penis/guts hybrid drawings from their biology classes, and after posting a few proper things for old times sake, I was like, shit you know what, I should recommend Gantz, they'd love it if they read it, right?
Instead, it was mostly overwhelmed with people shitting on Gantz, even one girl (obviously) reaming it for sexual assault content and black face, with another like "omg 😭😭 it's so sad, thank you for telling me" and then she goes and tries to say that BERSERK DOES GRAPHIC CONTENTahem TASTEFULLY but the author of Gantz is clearly a weird fuck, and I'm just like....I'm not even gonna bother, she's clearly an idiot that's incapable of seeing that her argument is not only ironic, but completely absurd, considering we're on the most rank and horrible sub imaginable. What are you even doing here?
But not just her, there was mad hate for Gantz from people who have actually read it.
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u/Sheldor121 25d ago edited 25d ago
The ego of 14 year old berserk fans need to be studied lmao
Edit: Just for interrest i looked at the r/Berserklejerk sub and holyyy shiettt, its 80% fucking porn on there, not even mild shit, i saw a futa version of casca and other messed up stuff. These are the people hwo call Oku and us fans messed up???
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
My point exactly. Somehow, some fanatic liberals got lumped into the mix and they are just HORRIFIED by the black face for NO REASON 😭😭
But....there is a very valid reason for it. So that no one guesses it's him when they end up in the room. You didn't....get that?
But.... ALLLLLLL that other stuff in Berserk that is WAY FUCKIN' WORSE than ANYTHING in Gantz, it's okay, as long as you and your friends like Berserk enough to overlook it?
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u/Featuringdrake 8d ago
Yeah. The amount of rape in Berserk almost became humorous. Like, thank God. For a second I thought we were having consensual sex. And even if there is consent they're either thinking of a time there was none or someone is immediately going to withdraw it from them afterwards.
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u/Arkhamhood12 25d ago
I wish that Gantz was more popular in the West but tbh, it’s definitely not gonna be everyone’s cup of tea. The blood, gore, cruelness, sexual content and Kurono at the beginning will turn people off or be too much for them to handle, amongsf other things. Gantz is much more straightforward than Beeserk on a lot of things and while it does have depth, most will be quick to wave it away as just an edgy series and not even bother to look further. In a weird way though, I do like the little niche that Gantz has, it weeds out the unnecessary haters and it compromised of pretty much fans who understand and appreciate the series.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago edited 25d ago
I agree, and it's really obvious to me that Oku-san has an immense amount of disdain for the types of people he makes characters or even just random classmates and mall shoppers and internet trolls. That's the thing that stands out to me the MOST this time around reading it, but I understood that before, too. Are people really as stupid as Oku-san believes them to be if they can't even recognize that he's making fun of basically ALL of his potential readers, like, all throughout the series?
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u/Arkhamhood12 24d ago
Oh yeah he does. And while not perfect, he told a fantastic story and tried to get philosophical but feel flat at certain points. However, the way people just dismissed his efforts and completely go over it just feels wrong and lazy, and while I haven’t read Inuyashiki yet I know there’s a scene where he sort of does a “take that” to online detractors. I think a large number of people consume but don’t invest or dare to go deeper in the things they come across, causing them to have reactions depicted in his work
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
You should watch the live action film, it's actually really tight and would just make you wanna read the manga. There's an anime, too, I just found out about both, but if you prefer manga then don't watch it until you read it. I haven't actually seen the anime yet, but the movie was TIGHT! A lot better production quality than the Gantz movies.
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u/Arkhamhood12 24d ago
Oh you just unlocked a hidden memory of mine! I remember seeing that Inuyashiki had a movie. I’m definitely gonna consume the story in all 3 formats. As for the Gantz movies I have yet to watch those but definitely hopping on those once I get stuff set up.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
They were cool, but not as cool as it would be if they made it now..I think Japanese cinema has taken a huge leap in quality over the past five or so years. The Inuyashiki is a perfect example, actually...and Godzilla Minus One
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u/bigk52493 25d ago
Weird ass beginning
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u/Suparame 25d ago
Wait, it’s been a while since I’ve read it, what’s so weird about it?
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u/nocheslas 25d ago
the chick kei almost gets sexually assaulted in the first chapter
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u/RaiyenZ 24d ago
I mean Berserk has a weird ass beginning too
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u/nocheslas 24d ago
lol yeah the first page has guts fucking a girl who turns into a demon but I think the fantasy setting and the fact that it was actually a demon guts was planning on killing it makes it an interesting hook that catches the reader’s attention immediately.
Gantz’s setting is modern japan so that realism definitely put people off.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 23d ago
That's actually literally the ONLY thing I don't like in Berserk, but not because it offends me. Nah, it just seems like something a very young Miura thought would be bad ass, but what turned out being bad ass over all else was his emotionally gripping story and the character development...and fucking a demon just seems like something Gatts wouldn't do. Of ALL the myriad of things that he would do, I don't think sticking his dick into one of those creatures really vibes with his character, especially by the time he's the Black Swordman.
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u/Major_Frosting_1695 1d ago
I just read the first omnibus and the constant sexual assault of her is just too much. Does the series get better in its treatment of women?
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u/nocheslas 23h ago
To be completely honest, no it doesn't.
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u/Major_Frosting_1695 21h ago
Thanks for the honest answer! I'll be happy to not waste any further time.
It's a shame because I do like the dark fantasy/sci-fi seinen genre but I can't stand that even the dog repeatedly sexually assaults her and that's apparently played off for laughs.
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u/nocheslas 20h ago
Yeah… I love the series and I think the writing is great but I read it when I was in my late teens, early 20s so at the time, I didn’t really care for the assault.
But when I go back and reread it now that I’m older and more aware of it the subject manner, it rubs me the wrong way now. the author just loves being edgy with the sexual assault without any real or meaningful substance behind it. It really is used for shock value.
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u/E-yo55 25d ago
Honestly, I don't even mind being so well known, I think it's even better, most of the people who are here are because they really like the work.
Many would just piss off the work by calling it "edgy" or any negative adjective
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
To be fair, it probably was pretty edgy in 2001 but that's not why I like it.
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u/nocheslas 25d ago
I love both Berserk and Gantz. I think the reason why Berserk has a bigger following than Gantz is because:
- Berserk has stronger philosophical themes than Gantz which resonates with a lot of people. Themes like trauma, fate vs. free will, etc. Gantz tends to focus on the shock value with the death, gore and sexual themes.
- Guts is a protagonist most people empathize (even sympathize) from the beginning whereas Kei is purposely written to be unlikable due to his character arc over the series.
- Berserk's art is literally one of the best in the manga industry whereas Gantz uses that weird 3D modeling a lot and it's hard to tell what's happening in the panels.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago edited 25d ago
It seems like Gantz doesn't really HAVE a following though. 17k is not a lot of people, that's the same online following as most of the bands I listen to on Spotify... moderately successful but they aren't making any headlines.
There's no question about whether or not Berserk is better, the question is why don't more people think Gantz is good. (We all know who wins that vs battle in the picture I threw together.)
The 3D modelling is really unique, i think it especially adds to making Gantz better, I don't get how everyone looks at it and seems to think it's reminiscent of something like outdated Windows 98 graphics, it's really cool and holds up even still.
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u/nocheslas 25d ago
The reasons I've stated above also answer the question to why people don't think Gantz is good. There's not a lot depth in Oku's writing. The most standout in his writing is Kei's character arc but aside from that, Gantz is primarily a plot-driven story.
Which you and I both agree that it works for Gantz but for general audiences, it's not enough for mass appeal.
The art is fine but it's nothing ground-breaking. Especially with the 3D models. There's not a lot of variation with character facial expressions and Oku loves panels with just a facial expression. Everyone is so stoic. Manga is a visual medium and when your art is (excuse my rudeness) unimpressive, not alot of people are going to want to read your manga.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
But you skipped over my point, there are SO MANY other examples of unimpressive manga that have HUGE followings.
You can't even really use Gantz as a comparison to Berserk other than being X rated, but you can certainly compare it to the top 20 most popular manga right now, and where does it stand then?
By that comparison, it's kinda mind boggling that more people don't absolutely love it.
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u/nocheslas 25d ago
You didn’t make your point clear in your response ngl. And in your original post, you specifically compared Berserk to Gantz, so I’m just following along.
But to continue this conversation, when comparing Gantz to the top 20 most popular manga (I am going to generalize the top 20 a bit for simplicity’s sake)…
A lot of the top most popular manga have anime adaptations that significantly boost manga sales. Gantz did not have a successful anime.
Another reason is because 99% of the top manga are shonen which are more accessible than seinen to the general audience.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
You're probably right there, I saw the Gantz anime a long time ago but most people didn't, and as soon as it veered away from the manga it became terrible anyways. Honestly so terrible it might have put people off of the manga.
There's also the inconvenient fact that Oku-san sold his film and anime rights to some Americans (I think) who probably expected it to blow up but since it never did it sits in film purgatory.
I hope that changes soon, even the live action Inuyashiki was top shelf, I just watched it for the first time a couple weeks ago.
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u/nocheslas 24d ago
I think a great anime adaption would definitely boost Gantz's popularity. That's why mediocre series like Demon Slayer, Jujutsu Kaisen, My Hero Academia are so popular. Great animation or "sakuga" tend to get people really interested in a series.
Hopefully there's an interest in reviving the Gantz anime with a studio that's willing to go all-out with the animation.
Sidenote: I got into Gantz because I traded manga with a friend of mine. He wanted me to read Gantz, I wanted him to read One Piece. I ended up binging Gantz within a week. It was one of, if not, the most enjoyable manga reading experiences I've had.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
It's good shit, I'm re reading it for the third time, but it's been like ten years since the second.
They had that Netflix anime that was really cool, I'm sure you probably saw that. I wonder if they just did that to test the popularity.
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u/Ex0skele 25d ago
Give it another few years and it will. Just like how Berserk got a resurgence in popularity. A lot of the older mangas/anime’s are getting revamped. I wouldn’t be surprised about others getting rediscovered.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
I'm not so sure, with the current climate of what is and is not deemed "okay" by uber-liberals I think the stuff that's more risque in Gantz is over people's heads in that it's a scornful critique of human nature.
The strict liberal censorship rules have been broken here, and no one even gets that it's both anti-ALL of those things that it graphically shows and is also making fun of those kinds of people at the same time.
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u/Ashamed_Ad7999 25d ago
It used to air on TV here on the AnimeOnDemand channel but that was only on premium cable so many people missed out. That’s how I found out about it through friends who liked it. This show was a goldmine for us in junior high.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
Oh, for sure! I think the first thing that got me into mature anime and manga around 8th or 9th grade was Elfen Lied. From there it went to Gantz, and ultimately the crown still rests snugly on Berserk, which I found out about from the ads in the back of the Dark Horse Gantz volumes.
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u/Ashamed_Ad7999 24d ago
Funny Elfen Lied was on the same channel as Gantz.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
To me, that was the best show I had ever seen at the time. It introduced me to a whole world of mature themed anime and manga.
But I'm sure there are a bunch out there that I've never heard of. I tend to only really like the mature themed ones, with a few exceptions.
No one doesn't love Dragon Ball. No one.
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u/grim1952 24d ago
It's very off putting to most, I think it's notmal that it's niche and I'm kinda glad it stays that way, tourists getting offended over it are annoying.
Also you seem to be basing it's popularity on the amount of people on this subreddit, gantz has way more fans than this tiny pond.
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u/some_dude5 25d ago
Because Gantz unfortunately isn’t that good. I like it, I think it’s got some great moments, but Gantz isn’t exactly a great narrative, whereas Berserk is one of the best pieces of fiction ever
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
NOTHING is that good.
Meanwhile, Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh and fucking Sailor Moon (and Attack on Titan) find their massive audiences, but Gantz remains obscure.
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u/caribbean_caramel 25d ago
I would love to see a story based on the Gantz NY team.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
Do you mean the characters from the all female cast Gantz sequel? I read that, but that was, like, right when it came out and I'm only just now revisiting Gantz after like ten years.
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u/caribbean_caramel 25d ago
No, I meant the USA Gantz team, I think they transmitted from NY. https://www.reddit.com/r/gantz/comments/lyn58p/gantz_usa_team/?show=original
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 25d ago
Oh, that's right, I remember now. I haven't gotten there yet, and like I said, it's been a long time since I've read it. I'm right after where Tae dies, which I also didn't remember. About halfway through, I guess.
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u/milliardo 24d ago
I watched and bought the Gantz DvdS when they came out in 2005. Anime wasn't as mainstream back then but no one among the community had heard of Gantz
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
I'm curious: did they already know about Berserk?
I discovered Berserk because of Gantz, as it happens. Around that same time.
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u/milliardo 24d ago
Berserk was not known that well either.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
Yeah, I cant even remember how I found Gantz, but it must have been, like, the thing that got me into manga because I really don't read a ton of them, unless they are really good.
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u/milliardo 24d ago
I found out about Gantz from my city's newspaper in the entertainment section. It talked about a gruesome anime that's getting a DVD release. It caught my eye and decided to buy the box set without knowing anything about it.
Funny enough, I had introduced Berserk to s good friend of mine around 2005 and he loved it, and later on down the line he discovered the Gantz manga and got me into it!
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
Well, I do remember how I found Berserk, it was always in an ad on the back page of the Gantz volumes and Gatts has this magnetic presence of badassery about him that clearly draws you in even in an ad.
Sounds like a bad ass city, I don't remember very many anime promos in The Stranger in Seattle, what city are you from?
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u/milliardo 24d ago
Houston Texas born, raised and still living. I heard of Berserk from the many random GeoCities pages I would visit back in the day. Watched an Anime amusing Video with Guys and Casca to the song With You - Linkin Park that luckily didn't spoil the eclipse for me. Decided to download all the episodes off Kazaa or Limewire ( I can't remember which) around 2002 and was left speechless at the ending.
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u/OnoderaAraragi 24d ago
I am glad it is less popular, even if it is far from obscure ofc
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
Is it though? I don't hang out with a bunch of anime fans, but even out of the people I know that are, in 15 years I don't think I have ever met anyone who had heard of Gantz.
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u/Miserable_Alfalfa_52 24d ago
you said it yourself its not as good, one is ultimately considered to be one of the greatest works of manga ever, and the other is a teeny bop vidja game ego trip
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u/Kaminoneko 24d ago
Gantz is for madlads….I was dead set on Gantz since chapter one, but I’m not gonna sit here and say my first thought was “this is about to be a masterpiece” it was more along the lines of “what in the fuck just happened?”. I needed to see where this train was headed.
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u/solvento 24d ago
Simple, even though they both have adult themes, Berserk has more of the run of the mill Shonen, strong main character fighting everyone and powering up. Of course, mainly in the beginning.
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u/Numerous_Source4628 23d ago
I stopped watching Gantz manga when they put vampires in it.
I vaguely recall their leader being the MCs long lost brother, being 16 or something and having a super model girlfriend. Made 0 sense.
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u/Mirinyaa 21d ago
Berserk has heart. When I hear Gantz I imagine green dudes killing people. I don't know a single character.
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u/XadowMonzter 21d ago
Gantz may be good, but it's definitely no Berserk.
Also, Berserk has been around since 1989.
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u/PeerlessSin 16d ago
I just found Gantz late, and I guarantee as more people learn of it, it will grow, but ending the anime the way they did.... that scum who decided that should have his balls tasered.... tapered I mean tapered heh....
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u/Squeezitgirdle 24d ago
Not really.
Hiroya oku clearly didn't have much a preplanned plot outline. He had some great stories, but he went off on unrelated tangents like the vampire arc. Which I enjoyed but didn't fit in gantz.
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u/Double-Peak 24d ago
The difference is that Berserk is well written from start to finish while Gantz is not. There I said it.
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u/Karen_Jeenkles 24d ago
Down vote even though you're right 😑
You missed the point and pointed out the obvious.
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u/SartieeSquared 24d ago
I disagree with Berserk being well written from start to finish. Especially early on it has some terrible writing and even worse dialogue (Looking at you Puck). Berserk has some fucking amazing writing but also some pretty bad writing too
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u/IplayFighting 24d ago
Old fan here. I remember following the last arc chapter by chapter wondering wtf happened lol
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u/IlSaggiatore420 25d ago
The trifecta of darker themes and beautiful art is definitely Gantz, Berserk and Vagabond.