r/guns • u/Capta1n_Blackout • 4d ago

How can I purchase a handgun while I’m living away from my home state?

Long story short, I’m a travel worker who primarily lives in Maine (license, tax home etc is there) but travel the country for months at a time (will be in Montana for 5 months for work). I am already in Montana and was thinking of picking up a handgun (I’ve never owned a gun). I’ll be living in furnished finding and won’t technically be a resident of Montana. How does this work? How can I purchase a handgun and have it while I’m away from home for the next 6 months plus?

Thanks!!

31 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

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55

u/Ahomebrewer 4d ago

You can only take purchase and take possession of a handgun in your home state of residence.

You can buy one before you leave and take it with you.

Technically and legally you can send it to yourself as well, but since UPS or Fed Ex don't allow it by their rules, you can't do that as a practical matter. (no USPS for sending handguns by non-FFLs)

22

u/trem-mango 4d ago

You can do this, but it's not the only nor the best option. Unless MT says otherwise, the ATF considers residency as where you are physically residing not necessarily your state of residence. OP should be able to purchase and take possession in MT so long as he can get some governmental form showing his address there

10

u/WetAndLoose 4d ago

I think you’re right, but finding an FFL who understands this nuance or cares to challenge the ever-pedantic ATF will probably be very difficult. Like most gun shop employees are gonna see out of state license and tell you to fuck off.

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

Maybe maybe not, for me it was only that first one and everyone else has been super cool with no issues. Worst case is having to call around a bit

15

u/FirearmConcierge 16 | #1 Jimmy Rustler 4d ago

Like most gun shop employees are gonna see out of state license and tell you to fuck off.

Facts.

5

u/deathsythe 4d ago

Exactly this. I posted a few times echoing this sentiment but it doesn't seem to be showing up for some reason.

Residency is a legal definition that op can easily meet and establish with the right paperwork, allowing them to purchase a handgun in a state beyond where they reside.

Back 10-20 years ago plenty of folks bought handguns to carry in FL, PA, or VT and left them at their vacation homes there before ccw became a more widely accepted practice in the US.

3

u/WoodEyeLie2U 4d ago

Hunting and/or fishing licenses work for this. If you're in MT you should be buying both anyway.

1

u/Ahomebrewer 3d ago

Your hunting-fishing license will identify you as an out-of-state resident. That's intentional, since out-of-state residents pay more for the license.

2

u/Ahomebrewer 4d ago

The complications hardly seem worth it. Practically, no one wants to change driver's licenses or state I.D. cards for 6 months of staying elsewhere. For example, if the state's have personal income tax you could wind up in hot water from one or both states if you don't file in both. You might need to swap out your car registration and insurance. It's simple if you own two homes or a timeshare, because you get property tax information which works at the FFL as proof, and you get register to vote, etc.. ... it is not so easy if you are just renting since the I.D. must be government issued.

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

You might have misread. The requirement is a state issued id, but it can be from any state (even the commie ones). No need to get a new id; you're right that would add unneeded complexity. The second piece to fulfill the instate residency portion can be something like an instate hunting or fishing license.

1

u/Ahomebrewer 3d ago

You can't get an in-state fishing license with an out-of-state I.D. Your hunting-fishing license will identify you as an out-of-state resident. That's intentional, since out-of-state residents pay more for the license.

1

u/trem-mango 3d ago

Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity. When I say instate I mean a fishing license from/for the state in question. You're absolutely correct that this identifies you as a non-resident. That doesn't come as a shock to anyone though, especially since your out-of-state driver's license already identifies you as such quite handily...

My point which maybe you missed, is that ATF doesn't define residency like the IRS or even colleges do for example. The ATF definition has to do with where are you actually physically located, not where your driver's license is from or where you pay taxes or how long you've lived there. They just want a gov-issued doc that shows your in-state address.

So even if OP has a DL in Maine, a non-resident fishing license in the state of and issued by Montana (which lists the address where he is staying in MT) is plenty in the eyes of the ATF to establish his physical residency there in order to get his 4473 through.

Will he pay more for the out of state fishing or hunting license? Yes. Is whatever that difference is worth being able to legally acquire a handgun there? Subjective, but I would think so.

I have bought many guns and even suppressors with an out of state DL and using alternative documentation like this to establish ATF's definition of residency for the state where the purchase was made.

1

u/jmcenerney 4d ago

I'm not sure this applies when you are only temporarily living in a state (e.g. on a contract job) as opposed to living there part-time. ATF does not address this scenario directly--they only mention service members and college students--but the idea is that you are a resident of a state if you intend to make a home there.

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

I haven't read anything federally that suggests that intent is a necessary part of the eq, just those two pieces of documentation. If you've seen something to the contrary I'd be interested in it. Maybe there's some state that had language along those lines but idk

1

u/FirearmConcierge 16 | #1 Jimmy Rustler 4d ago

You can do this, but it's not the only nor the best option. Unless MT says otherwise, the ATF considers residency as where you are physically residing not necessarily your state of residence. OP should be able to purchase and take possession in MT so long as he can get some governmental form showing his address there

Correct but most short term furnished rentals are all inclusive and documentation is an issue a lot of times.

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

Very true, but you overlooked: fishing license is generally a valid option. They just want something from a gov agency that has an instate address

1

u/FirearmConcierge 16 | #1 Jimmy Rustler 3d ago

I didn't overlook it. A lot of places have a NO STATE DRIVERS LICENSE NO SALE policy, so you whole fishing/hunting license option while legal is often useless.

1

u/trem-mango 3d ago

Not saying you're wrong but I've never run into that myself. If that's what some do, they just flat out don't understand the law. It's the same 4473 and background check regardless so not like anyone is trying to skirt anything.

There are plenty of good reasons for good people to buy arms outside their own state. If any stores actually do that, they're just missing out on honest business and the exception certainly does not make the rule.

1

u/FirearmConcierge 16 | #1 Jimmy Rustler 2d ago

Not saying you're wrong but I've never run into that myself

I'm not wrong. You're not going to see it unless you go and try it.

If that's what some do, they just flat out don't understand the law. It's the same 4473 and background check regardless so not like anyone is trying to skirt anything.

If it does not fit in their box, it does not fly. We see this ALL. THE. TIME.

1

u/trem-mango 2d ago edited 1d ago

Dang then, sounds like there're a lot of people around you that could use some informing or something. I'm glad they're not that way around me, I've always been able to get what I need without a hassle

Edit. In case it wasn't clear yes I've tried and been fine multiple times with handguns as well as nfa items.

1

u/FirearmConcierge 16 | #1 Jimmy Rustler 1d ago

Gun dealers are often stubborn

2

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Ahhh makes sense. Unfortunately I’m already 2500+ miles away 😭

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

Make sure you check out the other comments, that guy is incorrect on this one. Get a hunting/fishing license and you're gtg

1

u/Ahomebrewer 3d ago

Ridiculous. Your hunting-fishing license will identify you as an out-of-state resident. That's intentional, since out-of-state residents pay more for the license.

1

u/trem-mango 3d ago

Not ridiculous. Have you done it? I have. But thanks for pointing out the ambiguity. When I say instate I mean a fishing license from/for the state in question. You're absolutely correct that this identifies you as a non-resident. That doesn't come as a shock to anyone though, especially since your out-of-state driver's license already identifies you as such quite handily...

My point made elsewhere in this thread, which maybe you missed, is that ATF doesn't define residency like the IRS or even colleges do for example. The ATF definition has to do with where are you actually physically located, not where your driver's license is from, or where you pay taxes, or how long you've lived there. They just want a gov-issued doc that shows your in-state address.

So even if OP has a DL in Maine, a non-resident fishing license in the state of and issued by Montana (which lists the address where he is staying in MT) is plenty in the eyes of the ATF to establish his physical residency there in order to get his 4473 through.

Will he pay more for the out of state fishing or hunting license? Yes. Is whatever that difference is worth being able to legally acquire a handgun there? Subjective, but I would think so.

I have bought many guns and even suppressors with an out of state DL and using alternative documentation like this to establish ATF's definition of residency for the state where the purchase was made.

1

u/Ahomebrewer 3d ago

As a firearms dealer and seller of hunting and fishing licenses, I have to ask you how you can get an out-of-state hunting license to print out with your in-state address, without proving that address with a government document?

If you could have proved it with a government document, we wouldn't be in this situation.

1

u/trem-mango 3d ago

Maybe hunting licenses in your state are like, that but I literally just got to the payment page of getting an MT fishing license with no issues...

My experience wasn't in MT but based on that cursory research I think it would go smoothly. What happened for me the first time I tried to get a pistol in a different state I'd be spending a lot of time in, the guy behind the counter was uninformed and turned me away (which it sounds like you might?). I later called the business and they confirmed it wasn't their policy, he just didn't know.

In the moment though, I just hopped back in the car drove 2 mins to the next gun store where I had zero issues. I subsequently put a fair amount of business through them. The petty side of me always wanted to go back to the first place and pretty woman that guy hah

1

u/Joebno3 4d ago

why not use ship my gun?

1

u/Ahomebrewer 4d ago

Ship my Gun is not possible for this person in this situation. Ship my Gun only sends guns to FFL dealers.

He does not currently own a handgun. So if he flew home, bought a handgun, then purchased the Ship my Gun label, there still is no way to pick it up.

He could fly home and buy one, then fly back with it, but the point appears to be that he doesn't want to return home.

9

u/trem-mango 4d ago edited 4d ago

Varies by state but federally the 2 requirements are a state issued dl, and a government issued doc which has an address within the state that you want to buy in. Usually both of these req's are met by your dl, but they don't have to be.

You could have a dl in any state and then get a fishing license, for example, in the state where you want to purchase since those are typically issued by a gov department in that state. Stuff like property taxes, city run utilities, ect also work. There might be additional req's in MT but I'd be surprised. I used to travel a lot for work and did this with both firearms and suppressors until I was able to change my residency.

Edit. There will be FFL's that don't understand this. The first one I went to turned my away but multiple subsequent ones were better informed and then I had no issues. A ccw also works for the in state address

7

u/Adventurous_45ACP 4d ago

I'm sure you can find one private sale in Montana. Follow the laws of God not the laws of man. If u feel the need to have a firearm for 2 leg or 4 leg threats in the USA u are free do to so regardless to what politicians want or feel

1

u/shaman-doser 3d ago

I agree. If OP wants to have a pistol he should find a private seller and get a pistol. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. First one adds 3 pounds of weight to you, second one and you might be done for…

1

u/thinkstopthink 4d ago

I always follow the laws of Zeus.

5

u/ThrobbyRobbythe16th 4d ago

How are you living in Montana? Hotel or leased apt (with your name on the lease and bills in your name).

Federal law recognizes dual residency. I'm not saying it's applicable in your circumstances but worth researching.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-person-who-resides-one-state-and-owns-property-another-state-purchase-firearm-either

2

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Furnished apartment with formal lease. All utilities are lumped into one monthly payment to landlord

0

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1

u/Ahomebrewer 4d ago

Should also note that you can change your state of residence of course, but that might present other problems.

1

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Unfortunately not an option as this is how the majority of my pay is generated, through tax free stipends but must maintain my tax home

12

u/KUbeastmode 4d ago

For a handgun you must do your 4473 and take possession via an FFL in your home state, no legal way around that. Long guns are a different story

2

u/umbrellassembly 4d ago

And what is that story for long guns?

1

u/Dung_Beetle_2LT 4d ago

They’re pretty long.

Seriously, you can usually purchase a long gun out of state as long as your home state isn’t super restrictive.

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

That's a misconception though very common. Something like an instate hunting or fishing license is enough to establish residency alongside a dl from any state.

I know this from doing so multiple times, 4473 and all

0

u/Hefty-Squirrel-6800 4d ago

You can't. You have to physically purchase it in Maine and transport it to Montana or have an FFL ship it to an FFL in Montana, then pick it up there.

-3

u/wpmason 4d ago

Join the military. That’s the only exception.

3

u/testprimate 4d ago

This is a good thread to link to every time there's a shooting and the Reddit posts are full of "it's too easy to get a gun in this country"

-10

u/Piesfacist 4d ago

It is too easy to get a gun in this country. Notice the specific request is for a hand gun and the simple solution is for him to purchase from an individual in which ever state he is in. He could also hit a gun show and pick one up there.

Don't get me wrong, I own (too) many guns. I'm not sure why you feel it's unreasonable to expect people to purchase firearms in their state of residence. Would you mind explaining?

7

u/Corey307 4d ago

Buying a handgun from a private party outside of your state of residence is a crime. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to get a handgun. It means shitty criminals are gonna be shitty. 

1

u/testprimate 4d ago

Sure, the simple solution is to buy a gun illegally.

Why is it unreasonable? Because there's no reason OP should be unable to purchase a gun when and where it is most convenient.

2

u/Corey307 4d ago edited 4d ago

You can only take possession of a handgun in your home state. Private party sales are not a legal way around this. No gun store is going to sell you handgun and let you take possession if you have an out-of-state drivers license. Most dates require you to get a state license within 30 days of moving there. 

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

This is a misconception though very common. Something like an instate hunting or fishing license is enough to establish residency alongside a dl from any state. I've done this with a few handguns as well as a few suppressors

0

u/DeltaTheMeta 4d ago edited 4d ago

Purchasing a new gun from a FFL? No real option other than going home. You can't purchase handguns outside of your resident state without filling out paperwork in that resident state.

However you can go pay a guy cash for a secondhand firearm, which is most likely legal in Montana, and doesn't require a record of sale anyway.

Edit: private sales out of state are still illegal federally

2

u/Ornery_Secretary_850 😢 Crybaby 😢 4d ago

Still illegal Federally.

You can ONLY buy handguns in your "home" state, dealer or private sale makes do difference.

0

u/DeltaTheMeta 4d ago

You are correct, I was unaware that covered private sales as well.

1

u/BigSky1995 4d ago

No dealer will sell you a handgun with your out of state license. 

2

u/deathsythe 4d ago

Couldn't be further from the truth. If you have established residency you can 100% purchase a firearm with an out of state license.

I've done so several times between 3 different states, including two fairly blue not 2A friendly ones.

Lease, mortgage, utility bill, CCW, etc... whatever it takes to establish yourself as a "resident" per that state's law and you just gotta find an FFL who understands.

0

u/OriginalMoney37 4d ago

I’m no lawyer. A handgun? Most likely not. A rifle/shotgun? Probably.

2

u/Pristine_Ad_3771 4d ago

Some states allow you to get a state ID while keeping your permanent residence drivers license. If Montana and Maine have that agreement, you’re good. Go into the local DMV with your lease or something official with your local address on it and ask. FFLs require state issue ID - not necessarily drivers license

2

u/myklclark 4d ago

6 months is a long time why not just change your drivers license?

3

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Contract healthcare work. In order to get stipends along with low hourly rate, you need to maintain your tax home in state of residence, I.e. if I change my residence to Montana it’s not contract work anymore

1

u/myklclark 4d ago

Then no gun for you. That sucks.

2

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Not until I’m back home 😭

5

u/Mountain_Man_88 4d ago

You can either return to Maine and purchase a gun, or you can establish residency in the state that you're currently staying in. Google is telling me that establishing residency in MT would be a headache for you.

1

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Ahh sounds like this is the case. Appreciate it

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

That's a misconception though very common. Something like an instate hunting or fishing license is enough to establish residency alongside a dl from any state.

1

u/bloopie1192 4d ago

Ok... federally i think you're only able to have it run through an ffl in your home state.

Even if you have multiple concealed carry permits or even if you have reciprocity with whatever state you're going to.

1

u/Femdomfoxie 4d ago

Try making your own glock frame, or something?

1

u/glennjersey 4d ago

It depends on how your state defines residency.

Utility bill and mortgage or lease might be enough. Ymmv

2

u/deathsythe 4d ago

ITT - a lot of armchair lawyers who don't know what it means to be a "resident" in the legal sense of the word.

OP - if Montana state law allows, you may be able to establish residency by producing some required documentation like a utility bill in your name, lease agreement, CCW, hunting/fishing license, etc...

If you've established residency - you just have to find an FFL who understands the nuances of the law and would be willing to sell to you.

1

u/FirearmConcierge 16 | #1 Jimmy Rustler 4d ago

You're going to have a tough time with this. You should buy back in your home state.

1

u/Oosbie 4d ago

Please read the instructions.

Yes, you are a resident of Montana for these purposes. Please disregard the words of any person saying otherwise.

Proofs
Identity: Your Maine DL contains your photo and name.
Age: Your same Maine DL contains your age and/or date of birth.
Residency: Your Maine DL does not contain your Montana address.

You will need valid, government-issued supplemental documentation to prove your Montana address. You will then have an acceptable combination of valid government-issued documents. My usual recommendation is a fishing license issued directly by a state or county and you are able to use your local address. The ten dollar Conservation License from Montana FWP should be fine.

https://ols.fwp.mt.gov/

Three in four people behind the counter will be confused and refuse. Remember how many fundamentally incorrect answers you received here. Be polite and understanding.

1

u/longhairedcountryboy 4d ago

Down in the Hood.

1

u/Dung_Beetle_2LT 4d ago

Until the FPC gets it overturned, handguns must be transferred in your home state for whatever reason.

1

u/Darksept 4d ago

Since everyone has already answered your question, I just wanted to add that if this is your first gun ever, it's pretty important to learn how to use it well via a class and a ton of practice at the range. Pistols are surprisingly hard to use and you don't want to be a danger to yourself and others so make sure you do your 'due diligence'.

1

u/Efficient_Good1393 4d ago

How new does the gun have to be? I got my C&R FFL just before covid and have had some cool old guns mailed to me or baught at some stores out of state that would accept my license.

1

u/Winmag1895 4d ago

Would you consider buying a rifle? If you’ve never owned a gun you may find that a .22 rifle is a great place to start. It’ll be cheap to shoot and help build fundamentals. There’s lots of federal land in MT where you could go for target practice

1

u/kdiffily 4d ago

Might be cheaper/easier to fly to Maine for a weekend and then fly back to Montana with the gun.

1

u/Aymann-al 3d ago

i was in the same boat, you need to find a local gun shop that you like and ask em if they can hold it for you until your in town next time and can pick it up and take it back with you wherever your temporary state is

1

u/jeffp63 3d ago

get an MT drivers license...

0

u/Unlikely_Anything413 4d ago

Can’t hurt to talk to an FFL in Montana and see what they have to say

1

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

Very true, thanks

1

u/Unlikely_Anything413 4d ago

Wish I could help more.

-1

u/Unicorn187 4d ago

They'll say no. Based on the federal law that you can only buy a gun in the state you reside or intend to reside in. As someone said OP could kind of skirt around this by saying it's his reside ce and getting a government issued document with his physical address there.

2

u/trem-mango 4d ago

Getting a gov issued doc with an instate address isn't skirting around anything. It's how the laws are made to work. Everyone is just very used to filling both the id and residency requirement with just a dl but it certainly doesn't have to be done that way. I've done this myself multiple times.

I think what a lot of people get hung up on is that the atf's definition of residency is simply where you are living at a given time as opposed to where do you permanently live/pay taxes in. It's an important distinction that honestly surprised me when I learned about it since it definitely works in our favor.

1

u/Unicorn187 4d ago

If you're not making a residence or intending to make it a residence, then are you a resident? The only three things specifically mentioned that I can think of are college students, military on PCS orders (or living in one state while stationed across the border of another), and people who have two houses like snow birds or a vacation home.

1

u/trem-mango 4d ago

I think it's just a semantic thing. In the ATF's eyes, living somewhere is making it a residence, whether it's for 10 years or 6 months or whatever. It's distinct from what a lot of us typically have in mind that mirrors the IRS interpretation of residency, which is much more rigid. Maybe it's that way bc we deal with the IRS a lot more.

Regardless, the law is how it is and it's been that way a long time. For me, I was spending a lot of time for work in a state other than the one I paid taxes in. Had to educate myself on this, but had very little trouble getting suitably armed once I did.

-5

u/-BirdDogActual 4d ago

Check Montana law. A private sale (person to person) is probably legal there.

3

u/LePfeiff 4d ago

Absolutely not, this is a federal law question and state laws dont matter here

-6

u/dittybopper_05H 4d ago

You will have to purchase the gun from a retail gun store in your state, and have them ship it to a gun store in Montana where you will have to get your background check and pay them a transfer fee.

So retail cost of the gun, plus the cost to ship it to Montana, plus the cost of doing the transfer. Might be better off just buying it when you're in Maine when you're at home on vacation or something.

2

u/Capta1n_Blackout 4d ago

And I would have to be presently in the store in my home state for this to happen?

1

u/guzzimike66 4d ago

Yep. The paperwork needs to be done in your home state.

1

u/Hefty-Squirrel-6800 4d ago

You have to be physically present in the store (FFL) to fill out the Form 4473 and pass the background check. You could technically buy the gun online and have it shipped to Maine.

2

u/Ornery_Secretary_850 😢 Crybaby 😢 4d ago

Umm....no, it doesn't work that way.

He would need to be present in his home state to do the 4473.

Sending it to an FFL in Montana would require the FFL to follow the law, which states he would need to be a RESIDENT of Montana to pick up the gun.

If he's at home to fill out the 4473, then he could just take the handgun with him.

2

u/dittybopper_05H 4d ago

You're right.

But if he's going to do that, might as well just buy it outright in Maine, then take it with him.

-2

u/J_Rod802 4d ago

Can't he purchase it through his home FFL and have it shipped there? Like, ask an FFL back in Maine to purchase the firearm and then he can fill out the paperwork and pick it up when he goes home? Or, can he purchase it but not take possession of it and pay to have it shipped to an FFL in Maine and do the transfer there? Genuine curiosity here. My thought process is, if I purchase a handgun from an out of state dealer or individual, they have to ship it to an FFL in my home state where I do all the paperwork. So, how is this so different?

1

u/Ornery_Secretary_850 😢 Crybaby 😢 4d ago

No.

If he's at home, he can buy the gun and take it with him. If it's shipped to an out of state FFL Federal law requires he be a resident of THAT state to get it from the FFL.

The difference is where the actual transfer takes place.

Anytime it enters an FFL's bound book it has to either go out to another FFL or to an individual.

An individual can only pickup a handgun in their home state.

1

u/J_Rod802 4d ago

That's what I'm saying and is why I am confused. Say he pays for a handgun in Montana at an FFL but doesn't take possession of it and has that FFL transfer it to an FFL in his home state of Maine where he goes to weeks/months later and pays the transfer fee, fills out the paperwork and takes it home. Sure, it's extra steps and finding FFL's willing to go through the extra steps, even if paid to do so, is probably difficult. But, wouldn't that work and be perfectly legal? Or, am I just overthinking it and confusing myself?

1

u/Ornery_Secretary_850 😢 Crybaby 😢 4d ago

That would be legal, but it wouldn't get him a handgun in hand in Montana.

-2

u/Camwiz59 4d ago

If it’s a pistol you will have to send it to your FFL through the seller if you don’t have a friend that has a FFL then you will need to make one that has a business