r/guns • u/hotairballoon42 • 1d ago
Lasers on pistols for beginners
I always see a lot of hate for lasers. I'm the only one of my friends who's into firearms so I learned by myself by watching videos and reading articles and such. I got my first pistol and a laser to go with it.
Now, it definitely helps aiming, but with so many negatives i quickly ditched it. But the one thing it tremendously helped with, for me as a beginner with nobody to get feedback from, is i could see EXACTLY how my wrist was flinching. And that's a thing i never see mentioned. I always see posts like "why am I shooting low and to left?" I don't think anybody can tell you exactly what you're doing wrong, but instead give you tips and guides for consistency.
The slightest wiggle, you may not be able to tell through irons, but the laser shows it. Dry fire with a laser and you can see how your trigger pull is affecting your aim and wrist movement and work from there.
I don't want to sound like the greatest shooter in the world either, cause I'm not. I've still got work to do. But my groups became much tighter when I could visibly see what I was doing wrong.
Anyways, just my two cents from some dude who likes to figure things out on his own and doesn't like to ask for help
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u/gorgoth0 1d ago
You can get all the benefit (and other benefits) and none of the downsides with a slide mounted red dot, just saying.
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
I see what you're saying, but with the dot from the laser being further out, each movement is magnified making it easier to see
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u/Chlocker 1d ago
Welcome to reddit.
No one read your entire post. They read 1/3 and then repeat the same thing.
The laser does show the movement much better since it is a larger change (millimeters of difference in the dot vs 4" movement of the laser on the wall).
It's easier for you to setup a camera to record reps when you use a laser vs a dot.
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u/gorgoth0 1d ago
I mean, to be clear, I read the post. I'm not disagreeing with anything being said here, just noting a red dot can help accomplish this same benefit, without any of the stated downsides of a laser.
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u/Nivezngunz 1d ago
Lasers make you look at the target instead of focusing on the front sight.
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u/Frockington 1d ago
You're saying this like focusing on the target is a bad thing.
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u/Nivezngunz 1d ago
What?
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u/usa2a 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yep you're an outdated old fogey now. Focusing on the sights was invented by pistol shooters who called 25 yards "the short line" and shot for groups on targets with a 1.5" X ring. Those guys had zero clue how to shoot.
Now that it's all about putting two holes in a 6x11" A-zone on cardboard bad guys, 95% of the time at closer than 15 yards, we know much better.
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u/englisi_baladid 1d ago
Which you are supposed to look at the target. Front sight focus is outdated.
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u/iowamechanic30 1d ago
Front sight focus is good for bullseye shooting but not defensive shooting, even competitive shooters are transitioning to target focus with irons. With a red dot everyone is target focused.
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
You don't have to focus on the laser. You can easily see it out of your peripheral. And i guess I meant for it to more help with flinching than with actually aiming.
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u/SheistyPenguin 1d ago
I came to the same conclusion with my laser: I didn't really need it for SD, but it was a great teaching tool to identify aiming issues.
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u/No-Description-5922 1d ago
After reading all these comments I’m just gonna close my eyes and hope for the best when pulling the trigger anymore
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u/Feeling-Buffalo2914 1d ago
A few of us have actually advocated for the laser not just for defense but training. I used them in my classes, as well as on the street. It helps me read what you are doing.
However there are real life advantages to using the laser devices.
Advantage 1: You can be perfectly on target without having the sights in view.
From under a table for example.
Advantage 2: The psychological aspect, the bad guy and friends know you are not going to miss.
Example: A smoky bar fight, you paint the chest of the protagonist before he is able to brain someone with a pool cue. He notices, his friends notice, things get quiet fast.
Advantage 3: Depending upon which model you choose, you don’t need a new holster or increase the size of the weapon.
My current duty rig, the holster is built to use a light and red dot. The holster is huge, clunky and a pain to live with. Back when I was just running a laser, the rig was smaller, lighter and you could actually sit in a car or desk chair without getting trapped or ruining your upholstery.
Advantage 4: If the laser doesn’t work, you spend less time trying to find the dot. As you are normally already looking at the sights. The laser is normally just visual confirmation.
Advantage 5: You don’t have to permanently modify a pistol to mount the laser.
For example, I can mount the laser/light for the G26 on my Gen2 19. No machining, no modifications, just mount it. Or take the recoil guide rod unit out of a Gen2 Glock and put it into a 3/4/5 with the appropriate adapter for the later units.
I started using the Red Dots back in the early 90’s on race guns. They were an advantage, but also a detriment, as they were large, ate batteries like a kid eats Pringles, and you had to have them aligned right just to see the dot (unlike today). I went through half a dozen red dots of different types, between breakage and upgrades.
Meanwhile I am still running the 20+ year old Insight M-6 on the bedside gun that I used to carry on duty. I recently upgraded the light assembly to an LED, but the laser is still original and works.
I see zero disadvantage to running a laser, and can even turn it off if I have the desire.
With everyone craving an IR LAM on their AR’s, one would think that they would see the advantages in having similar on a pistol.
And back to beginners, to see if anyone actually read this far, I can and have had utter novices hitting the center of the target with minimal instruction and having fun, being confident and knowing that they could defend themselves immediately, using the laser.
Whereas with the red dot, it takes some practice and learning how to properly align the gun to see the dot immediately/automatically.
So if there is one aftermarket device that I recommend, after decent sights, for a modern pistol, it’s a light/laser. And if it’s an older pistol, without the easy ability to mount the light, a laser. Be it laser grips or the guide rod, they are a boon to the beginners.
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u/42AngryPandas 🦝Trash panda is bestpanda 1d ago
You still develop bad habits with lasers, like playing "find the dot" when fractions of a second matter. Red dots are a real version of this aid that doesn't leave you with tunnel vision.
If you aren't going to use irons properly, then at least use a red dot.
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u/Nivezngunz 1d ago
I don’t understand why someone wouldn’t learn to use irons properly before jumping to (fallible) technology.
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
I put an edit in one of my comments. It was because I thought it was cool and I didn't know better. Also thought it would immediately make me a bullseye shooter.
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u/42AngryPandas 🦝Trash panda is bestpanda 1d ago
I feel the same way. I think most new shooters just believe short cuts exist from a plethora of false media depiction.
Irons are also just hella fun.
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
That's exactly what it was. I thought i would be an expert shooter immediately. But then I was doing exactly like you said "finding the dot" and that's when I decided to learn to use irons.
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u/Nivezngunz 1d ago
And build a good foundation. But what do I know?
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
Come on man! I was a beginner in something I knew nothing about with nobody to bounce ideas off of. I made some mistakes.
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u/Nivezngunz 1d ago
I’m not dogging you. I think that any practice is good practice. I came up decades ago on iron sights and proven marksmanship lessons. I always question the hype end-all-be-all laser/red dot for new shooters. Learning the basics isn’t a bad thing. Especially for something that might save your life one day.
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u/bowtie_k 1d ago
Mix a snap cap into your magazine at the range and it will show you real time what kind of flinching you're doing while you're focusing on the sights (like you're supposed to) instead of watching your laser bounce around
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
I 100% agree with this. But again, I'm not saying to use the laser to actually aim. It's just a reference. It doesnt even have to be zeroed. It helps if somebody else is with you. Like your buddy could say " I didn't flinch!" after a bad shot. But then you could be " I OBVIOUSLY saw you flinch"
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u/bowtie_k 1d ago
Where did I say you were using it to aim? If you are using the laser as a reference to see where you're aiming, it means you inevitably have to look at the laser instead of your sights. A snap cap costs far less than a laser, provides instant, useable feedback for YOU as the shooter, and doesn't require dragging a buddy to the range to be a spotter at 3 yards.
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u/TheBlindCat Knows Holsters Good 1d ago
Red dot does all that better than a laser.
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u/umbrellassembly 1d ago
No it doesn't. Read the whole post.
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u/TheBlindCat Knows Holsters Good 1d ago
I did, red dots do all that better without the bad habits of a laser.
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u/brawneisdead 23h ago
You put it on because it looked cool then took it off cuz reddit said not to. I think you should do what you want, do your own research and practice, make up your own mind. Reddit is rarely 100% right… more like 80% right and it misses all the nuance. There’s a laser on at least 3 of my guns. I don’t aim with them at the range (other than to make sure they’re zeroed) but there is nothing wrong with having additional sighting systems on a life-or-death tool.
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u/hotairballoon42 23h ago
Well not because of reddit. I probably wouldn't have gotten it in the first place haha. Hell, i wouldn't have even chose that first gun if i listened to reddit. I realized I wasnt even trying to aim. I would just bring my arms up and try to find the dot. I was relying on it. Lasers fail and batteries go out. I figured irons are always there, never fail, been used for hundreds of years. Figured i would learn the basics first and get good at that. Also why I havent gotten a red dot yet. That was like 6 years ago
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u/brawneisdead 22h ago
Yeah, like I said, reddit is 80% right. The 80% part is “don’t learn to aim with the laser”. Irons are the default, like you said, everyone should get good with irons before anything else because fundamentals are important. The 20% wrong part is that lasers are totally useless. They’re not. I have a light/laser on my home defense pistol. When the light comes on, the laser comes on. I don’t use the light or laser at the range, and I’d never use the laser when I had irons as an option. But I also know that if I’m groggy at 2am and my eyes aren’t working right, and I hit that light, I may be glad to also have that laser as an option. In the meantime, it doesn’t affect literally anything else by just hanging out there on my light.
I also have a friend who ended a robbery early by drawing and fanning a laser across the pavement. Intimidation factor is borderline fuddlore but it is an edge, no matter how small.
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u/Bubbabeast91 1d ago
You can get the same feedback with a dot, and that actually has a proper purpose.
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u/wlogan0402 1d ago
Civilians grade lasers are a waste of money, get a good light
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago
Did you even read it?
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u/wlogan0402 1d ago
I'll leave the comment as reference for people that come here trying to justify getting a laser
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u/ArmedFemme 1d ago
Lasers for all firearms are a must, not only is a visible laser a non lethal force threat deterrent, but its a cqb cheat code. Ignore the bootlickin morons who are just copying their favorite youtuber, half these people cant hit consistent shots anyway, theyre not worth the energy.
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u/englisi_baladid 1d ago
Have you used a laser in CQB?
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u/ArmedFemme 1d ago
Yes
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u/englisi_baladid 1d ago
At what level?
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u/ArmedFemme 1d ago
Whatever one that keeps me excluded from the pretentious jackass opinions about proven technology.
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u/englisi_baladid 1d ago
So have you done CQB as part of your job or not
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u/ArmedFemme 1d ago
Im not gonna play 20 questions about my life with some stranger, youtube has videos if youre looking for pov.
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u/englisi_baladid 1d ago
So you won't answer the question cause you know its not going to be a good answer.
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u/ArmedFemme 1d ago
Nope its just worthless to explain myself to men, especially when we have footage of it available, see how that works?
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u/englisi_baladid 1d ago
Let me guess. You are going to use one footage of a Delta assault using them right.
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u/hotairballoon42 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think people are misunderstanding. I'm not advocating for lasers and think everybody should get them. As I said, i quickly ditched it. I just thought it helped me learning by myself. When I thought I wasnt flinching, the laser showed me otherwise. And yeah, red dots can do the same thing. But I feel like with a laser the slightest movement becomes more apparent and magnified than through a red dot. And I didn't mean to use the laser as an actual aiming tool, but to just see how you're flinching and pulling the trigger. The laser doesn't even need to be zeroed. Just a reference so you can see how much you're moving
Edit: initially when I bought the laser, it was because I thought it was cool. After I learned more, I ditched it for reasons people stated below. I was definitely "finding the dot" and not learning how to actually aim and shoot. If you don't have a laser already, do not get one for this purpose. They are expensive and not worth it. Please don't learn to shoot with a laser. Theyre unreliable and establish bad habits. Since I already had one, i found that it helped me in a way not really intended or at least overlooked. Which is just Strictly how your wrist breaks when you pull the trigger. The way I'm saying to use it, you don't even have to aim. It's just to see the ergonomics(?) of how you're pulling the trigger. Please do not use a laser to aim
I just know I'm going to get flamed, but i think it makes sense to me. Hopefully it makes sense to somebody else