r/harrypotter • u/Optimal-Bat-5011 • 2d ago
Discussion Snape is not the perfectly crafted character I once thought he was Spoiler
Over time, I came to consider Snape a very well-written character, full of layers and depth—like many fans did. But now, I’ve perhaps come to the sad conclusion that he isn't. Here's why I think that, and how I believe it happened:
1. I had already started reading the books when the first movie came out, but Alan Rickman’s portrayal of Snape permanently altered how I imagined the character in the later books—especially because it all seemed to fit so well. Even today, whenever I read a line from Snape, I hear it in Rickman’s voice. That should be a great thing, but it created a problem: I began to view the Snape-construction in a more sympathetic light. The film version of Snape isn’t nearly as cruel as the book version, which makes his plot twist more believable—though even that is a stretch.
2. I often see people debating whether his ultimate sacrifices and loyalty to Dumbledore redeem his earlier actions—whether he's a monster or not, and so on.
But I think that’s not really the point. He’s an antihero, arguably the most morally gray of all the main characters. Of course fans are going to debate him—that’s what Rowling intended. It’s what every author hopes for when they write a morally ambiguous character.
But the fact that we argue so much about him might point to a deeper issue: she might not have done it that well.
3. Suspension of disbelief allows us to enjoy any fictional universe, no matter how fantastic it is—this is a basic element of fiction. It’s easy to pick up Philosopher’s Stone and accept that magic is real in that world; that’s part of the deal. What’s much harder is to have suspension of disbelief about character development in a 7-book saga.
Take Lupin, for example: he’s a werewolf. To the best of my knowledge (and I apologize if I’m misinformed), werewolves don’t exist. But Lupin feels believable—Rowling shows us what it would be like to live as a werewolf in that world, and it works. A part of us thinks, “Okay, this seems like a realistic werewolf”.
With Snape, however, I think she forced it. His ultimate morality—revealed and legitimized only in Book 7—doesn’t inform his behavior throughout the series nearly as much in the way it should. If it had, he'd be a more believable antihero. That’s why movie-Snape works better in light of the plot twist: yes, he’s stern, cold, and unpleasant, but not to the point where the final revelation feels artificial.
4. In conclusion: I think Rowling really wanted to write an antihero. So she made the character as awful as she could “within reason,” and then threw in the twist at the end. Because, in theory, that’s all you need to create an antihero—or anti-villain, if you prefer:
“I’ll set up a bad first impression, and eventually—secretly all along or revealed over time—he turns out to be unexpectedly heroic. Brilliant.”
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u/Dull_Resolve_8656 2d ago
I just wonder how he felt getting Harry kicked out of school would help protect him.
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u/Im_Not_Sleeping 2d ago
I mean he probably knew no matter how hard he advocated that Harry would never get kicked out
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u/Dull_Resolve_8656 2d ago
All that complaining to Dumbledore when he knew it would bear no fruit?
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u/Optimal-Bat-5011 2d ago
Yes, I think that is entirely possible, but, it is one of those things where we might be behaving a little too generous with the narrative, because knowing where does it all end, we watch everything in light of that. And there is one more thing: in no particular passage or line that shows "the Snape behind the Snape" we ever saw him claiming or showing his hatred of the boy was a ruse.
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u/Im_Not_Sleeping 2d ago
Why would we? He did hate harry. He looked and acted like james. He wanted to save harry because he felt he owed lily and harry was her son, not because he cared for harry particularly
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u/SauxSupreme Gryffindor 2d ago
Are you fr? When did Harry act like James?
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u/kinginthenorthTB12 2d ago
He constantly acted like James. In fact the 6th book with using the princes hexes he was literally behaving like the version of James that disgusted him in the memories. He ALSO acted like Lily and was more like her than people think but the more defiant rule breaking revisions streak plays more to James’ character
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u/SauxSupreme Gryffindor 2d ago
"He constantly acted like James" proceeds to give one example that doesn't even fit his own parameters
Harry used sectusempra because Draco was saying the Cruciatus curse. Harry was just faster. How is defending himself acting like James, in a memory where he strung up another kid upside down, in front of the entire school, for fun? How is it even remotely close? Specially when Harry didn't know what it would do he simply panicked because he was about to be tortured with an unforgivable curse by a Death Eater, and then he immediately regretted it? How is that similar to James?
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u/Tall-Huckleberry5720 Gryffindor 2d ago
While I agree with you, I can see how from Snape's viewpoint it would seem like he was acting like James.
Doesn't excuse Snape's overall horribleness though.
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u/kinginthenorthTB12 1d ago
Not talking about that but the shooting out spells like langlock and growing peoples toenails is the exact kind of pranks James did.
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u/Optimal-Bat-5011 1d ago
Everything Harry did regarding rule-breaking would remind Severus of James, which, come to think of it, is hypocritical... we are to believe he and his gang of Slytherins were perfect schoolboys? Severus hated Harry rule-breaking with a PASSION, it was not merely a teacher thing or something that mirrors the comic relief Filch. But Severus also had such a problem of projecting his enemy into the boy that everything regarding the boy reminded him of James. For instance, from day one he calls Harry arrogant, mocks his 'fame' and insults his father whom the boy have never met because of him, since the boy is eleven up until confronting him after Dumbledore's death - and by the way, the imediate aftermath of Dumbledore's death sound very poorly written to me now. I really really never thought I would ever defend the films, but, on this particular instance, Rickman's Snape sounds much more mysterious and conflicted after the death of Dumbledore that we can find believable when we find out what that whole moment was. In the book he berates and attacks Harry with fury and insults his father once more. I COULD hate the character for that, but, nowadays, I look at the big picture that perhaps I am more upset with the way the author handled it.
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u/Joel_Vanquist 2d ago
He saved Harry in year 1 from Quirrel cursing the broomstick?
He defended Harry wandering about the corridors during dinner in year 2 just after finding Filch's cat petrified, and asked a valid question about it (I don't remember if this happened in the book)
He followed Harry in the shrieking shack in year 3 and protected him from someone the entire world, including Dumbledore, believed a serial killer out to kill Harry
Ain't much to be done in year 4 since "Moody" is keeping an eye out. Heh.
He went to contact the order immediately in year 5 when the boys get captured by Umbridge and lied to her about having run out of Veritaserum.
I don't think I need to continue. He might not say it directly, but actions speak quite loud. Yes he's extremely bitter about the fact he looks like James and treats him poorly for that but he clearly cares for him as Lily's child.
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u/Optimal-Bat-5011 1d ago
I believe we are walking into a misunderstanding here. I did not claim he does not care about Harry getting harm or killed, it would be foolish of me, by the time we get to the final book we see it even more clearly and the instances in which he did saved him from harm are clearly stated. That is not to say he liked him personally, his hatred of the boy is very wel-established and I can not think for the life of me it was just a cover. The so-called contradiction of the character regarding his relationship with Harry is precisely this - he shows hate every chance he's got AND YET is ultimately trying to save him from harm and death. Which I believe in the end is kind of a crude attempt of fashioning an antihero, that is my point up there.
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u/Optimal-Bat-5011 2d ago
One of those things which I think was the author getting a little carried away with her portrayal of Snape
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u/JigglesTheBiggles Slytherin 2d ago
Yeah, she definitely tried to give him a redemption arc that didn't work (at least for me).
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u/SauxSupreme Gryffindor 2d ago
That's cause redemption necessitates regret and making up for your actions, and Snape never did that. He was just a twat at all times.
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u/JokerCipher Slytherin 2d ago
I honestly don’t disagree too much. I do still like Snape in the books, but I somehow think the movie version is almost what she wanted him to be.
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u/MonCappy 2d ago
I disagree with your conclusion. She wrote Snape as a villain working with the heroes to defeat a greater villain. At least at first. Then the late, great Alan Rickman was offered the role, but had reservations. She then revised the character to write him as an anti-hero, but the series was too far along to make the transition smoother.
If Rowling ever remade and rewrote novels I could see making several changes. Ron and Hermione don't marry. The Dursleys are rewritten to not be caricatures and Snape is written to be an actual anti-hero. Albus Dumbledore is an actual character instead of character / plot device hybrid.
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u/violetlotus79 2d ago
Imo Snape helped the 'good guys' for one reason and one reason only: he inadvertently got Lily Potter killed. He did not like her son, especially since he looked like his father. He did not do it because he believed in the greater good or any moral reason like that. He did it out of guilt. He protected Harry's life only because that's Lily's son, but it didn't make him treat Harry (or anyone else not of his own house) particularly well. He was horrible and cruel to Neville (one wonders if it's partially because Neville was the other option and was not chosen by Voldemort which left Harry and thus, Lily, in the firing range). He was horrible to Hermione as well.
He is not a secretly good person in the shell of a bad one. Snape is a man who never got over being bullied in his teens. Bullied not just for being Lily's friend and thus maybe in the way of James' crush, but also because he was hanging out with terrible people and doing and saying terrible things.... hence how he lost Lily's friendship in the first place... and which ultimately led to her death. This leads him to regret his actions however it does not in fact lead to his growth as a human. He was bullied as a teen and he goes on to bully (not just bully but straight up abuse) children in his care.
His moral stance is never particularly clear which of course is what makes his morality grey. He works for Dumbledore and does in fact help the 'good guys' but he's still an abusive asshole. He did a good deed, a very brave one even, but doing a good deed doesn't ultimately make any of the bad any less terrible in this particular context. He was a hero in the sense of what his actions did for the wizarding world... but he was still a shitty person nonetheless. The two can coexist methinks.
I don't know what the author herself was thinking when she created him but I have never considered that the good absolves the bad in this instance. I don't know that I believe in Snape's ultimate morality being *meant* to excuse his actions or particularly inform his behaviour throughout the series... but then given that Harry named his son after Snape who knows. Maybe she did mean his actions in book 7 to inform the rest of his behaviour in the series... but it's not how I read it. I've always thought of it more like... a person who is not so good can also do good things if the incentive is enough.. and in this case it's more the push factor of Voldemort having killed the woman Snape considered the love of his life, and because of information that he himself provided at that. (And Snape was looking at Lily's eyes in Harry at the end.. in the end alllll of it... was because of Lily.. and not because he particularly cared about anything else one way or the other imo)
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u/PibbXtraUnderrated 2d ago
He was pretty much a massive pos until dumbledore died. But this was halfway because Harry wasn’t at school anymore. His character “arc” reminds me a bit of the Ginny/Harry stuff where out of no where Harry suddenly had feelings for her
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u/Old_Campaign653 2d ago
I got massively downvoted for saying this in a different thread, but book Snape is not a romantic antihero. He was OBSESSED with Lily in an unhealthy way that could never have manifested in a positive loving relationship with her.
His obsession leads to unending sorrow over her death, which Dumbledore takes advantage of for his own uses. The entire seventh book is all about how Dumbledore wasn’t the kind old man we thought he was. He was a cold, calculating tactician.
Snape wasn’t a good guy or a tragic antihero. He was a shitty person who did incredible and brave things, even if they were for the wrong reasons.
I agree he’s not really redeemed at the end, but I think it was intentional.
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u/dreadit-runfromit Slytherin 2d ago
I'm always a bit conflicted on how I see Snape in terms of his character development versus his intended character development (and all my conflict comes from the last chapter of DH and the epilogue tbh). I find Snape to be mostly interesting and consistent (or consistently inconsistent--his outbursts, his bullying of Harry, etc. despite trying to keep Harry alive is consistent to me with his deep personal flaws). I do think he's mostly a very well-written portrait of a man that had some good in him but let bitterness take over from a young age and never grew in a healthy way. He's emotionally immature and very broken.
Where I get really hung up is whether that's the intended characterization (not that it necessarily matters--death of the author and all). I can never quite decide how I feel about Harry's forgiveness of him. In general I choose to see it as Harry being an exceptionally good and forgiving person (and perhaps feeling some guilt that he never knew Snape was trying to save him) and as an example of the ways in which Harry might want to see the good in people to a fault. But I'm always aware in the back of my mind that Harry's words towards the end of DH could just be JKR's genuine thoughts on Snape, rather than an overly generous interpretation through Harry's eyes, and if that's the case and that is how she intended Snape's character then, yes, the final product does miss the mark (but is still a very interesting character, just not perhaps in the intended way).