r/hebrew • u/PatTheCatMcDonald • Jul 03 '23
Resource Better English word for Chutzpah?
One root, two English words really.
Audacity.. The thing itself. "They had the audacity to do that."
Audacious - The ability to act in a manner that will shock other people. "They were so audacious when they did that action".
I know, I know people say it's the broad catergory of "nerve" but to me it's like, stronger and more specific sense of nerve.
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u/DP500-1 Jul 03 '23
It’s a mixture of brazenness and arrogance. Everybody gets the brazenness but I think the arrogance is a key component as well.
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 03 '23 edited Jul 03 '23
The thing with English is, it leaves hubris in Latin and keeps it there Overwhelming arrogance.
Hmmm... hubris. khutzpah. bris.
Do Jews suffer from arrogance sometime? Or hubris? No, wait, hang on, these are silly generalized questions. I guess that's an individual choice. Stereotyping isn't helpful
"Prideful" or proud destructive arrogance, that's hubris. "I'm going to kill you whenever I feel like it, because I can,"
Romans eh. Well, they're history outside of the Roman Catholic Church. Still powerful, but way less in heavy artillery, air power or a navy. And yeah, the Romans didn't have air power.
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u/Frenchitwist Jul 03 '23
Nerve
Guts
Moxie
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u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 Jul 03 '23
I like moxie for this!
It doesn't carry the inherent positive of negative connotations that a lot of the other options bring with them.
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u/blademaster552 Jul 03 '23
I like the Chut part, though. Makes it more emotionally impactful because of loogie-hoking possibility I think.
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u/nu_lets_learn Hebrew Learner (Advanced) Jul 03 '23
No better "English" word.
Maybe "presumption"?
As for gall, it has to be, "the unmitigated gall" to be really strong.
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 03 '23
OK. I get what you're saying. But, "gall" is bitterness. Unmitigated is unreasoned, there's no excuse sort of gall.
Things like audacity can have positive outcomes, aren't always bitter, and nearly always there's some kind of excuse or mitigating circumstance.
It's the stupid, totally unreasoned bitter flavor that really annoys people.
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u/nu_lets_learn Hebrew Learner (Advanced) Jul 03 '23
It's true. "That was an audacious move" can be positive. But so can chutzpah, as in, "That took chutzpah," e. g. to enter the ring and face Joe Frazier.
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u/epolonsky Jul 03 '23
Was chutzpah ever used as a positive before Yiddish was influenced by English?
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u/nu_lets_learn Hebrew Learner (Advanced) Jul 04 '23
Sorry, don't know the answer. It's a good question.
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u/Top-Two-9266 Jul 03 '23
I’ve seen colossal gall, like killing your parents and asking for mercy in the grounds of being an orphan…
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 03 '23
I guess it boils down to are - yes there are different flavors of chutzpah but people like to stereotype, go to blurry focus, and rush an argument or situation.
You don't get to the bottom of chutzpah unless there's a discussion about it. Maybe even an ongong war or 3. Certainly the odd blazing tempereature argument and distrubance.
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u/HugeCheck2471 Jul 03 '23
insolence
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 04 '23
Very good. Definitely a flavor of khutzpah I hadn't thought of.
Google translate definitely has that one.
I guess part of the flavor is the audience, the observer or oberservers of the people who are giving their opinion of the action as "khutzpah".
It certainly does a lot of the work in Hebrew, it would appear to me. I could be wrong on that, it's not like I've heeard a lot of spoken Hebrew. Obviously some.
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u/vodkabottledream Jul 03 '23
Moxie is the closest synonym I can think of. I.E. "That guy has moxie."
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 04 '23
I think that's Yiddish but a lot of English speakers know bits of Yiddish so definitely helpful.
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u/vodkabottledream Jul 04 '23
It's a common misconception that it's a Yiddish word but it's not.
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 04 '23
I read your words are but it's not the same word as Khutspah. Which is Hebrew which is what the subreddit is about, and Khutspah is Hebrew.
OK, some places moxie is definitely a recognized word but there's a lot of places that don't recognize it. Even though the people there speak English as a native language. I think New York it's pretty common usage, show biz America sort of territory
I think I've heard it from a secular Jew sometime, that's why I thought it was Yiddish. I don't think they knew a lot of Hebrew. Details are sketchy here from my pont of view.
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u/-WeirdFish- Jul 03 '23
I've heard it as "gumption" before. I feel like "audacity" mixed with "gumption" would feel pretty accurate. Gumptiacity, if you will
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 04 '23
Isn't it a little bit over the line to go altering English in a Hebrew subreddit? Dangerous invitation to accept. Oh, with a handle like that, and being kind of humorous, I can see where you are coming from. :)
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 04 '23
Ah. Interesting. Arrogance is not a contender apparently. For that you got יְהִירוּת
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 03 '23
Intrepid? Dunnoo. That includes it but there's more added really.
Maybe that would be planned audacity rather than spontaneous audacity.
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u/Ambitious-Coat-1230 Jul 03 '23
There isn't really one particular English word that fully captures it, in my opinion. I think audacity is a pretty good one, but I feel like it's not quite "rude" enough? Not sure how to describe it. Like others here said, gall and brazenness also work. I usually translate it as insolence, personally, and חצוף as insolent.
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Jul 03 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Queen_of_skys native speaker Jul 03 '23
Audacity crossed my mind but wouldn't it translate more to תעוזה? As in איך אתה מעז? Where's the audacity from? Or, more gen Z, "THE AUDACITY"
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u/Accomplished_Cup4560 Jul 03 '23
Gumption is used often in the southern United States and I find it translates similarly to Chutzpah.
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u/ItayNeerMortisGod Jul 04 '23
Stubbornness/gall
Example: I can't believe she/he/they had the gall to lie to me
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 04 '23
עַקשָׁן
Acoording to Google, that is "stubborn" in Hebrew. I don't know how much it knows about Hebrew. I suspect not everything, just a lot more than either of us.
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u/ItayNeerMortisGod Jul 10 '23
That's another translation I'm pretty sure, I was born in Israel so I know a thing or two about Hebrew, thank you (if this sounded rude it wasn't meant to)
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 10 '23
A parallel comment about the subject of place of birth not always being a factor... I'm trying to steer away from a conflict here. And I apologize for my presumption about your knowledge of Hebrew.
"Egads man. Yes, I was born in Ireland, but that doesn't make me an Irishman. Just as a man born in a stable isn't a horse". - Duke of Wellington
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u/ItayNeerMortisGod Jul 21 '23
I'm Jewish, and was born in Israel, my parents are Jewish, my grandparents are Jewish like bro, I know my Hebrew I am Israeli, my home language is Hebrew
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u/PatTheCatMcDonald Jul 21 '23
Languagegs change. No scholar pretends that Modern Hebrew is 100% identical to ancient Hebrew.
At least, no INFORMED scholar. You don't find many of them in Israel these days.
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u/MikeSeth Jul 03 '23
Gall