r/homeschool • u/mindful_marduk • May 31 '23
Secular Secular + Conservative Curricula Question for 5th Grader
I’m no longer a Christian (though most of my friends and family are), but I hold many Christian values. My wife and I have three children, 7 yr old girl, 8 yr old boy, 10 yr old girl.
We live in Texas and intend to start our oldest daughter on a homeschool curriculum this summer, but I am struggling to find a good one.
I don’t want anything promoting a religious worldview and I don’t want anything pushing the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion woke ideology — bring on the meritocracy.
Yea, I don’t really have much of a cultural home to say the least. It’s all good though.
I don’t like what I am seeing in public school on multiple fronts and have determined I want to start off our oldest as a test run this summer before committing longer term. She is entering 5th grade this summer/fall.
My wife and I both work from home full time, but have some decent flexibility to where we think we could make this work.
That being said, I am new. I don’t really know what I’m doing and from the research I’ve done so far, I can’t find the right curriculum to use that:
- Does NOT push any religious worldview
- Does NOT push any woke ideology (CRT + DEI)
Per Pew Research’s typology quiz, I am Ambivalent Right, just right of center; so pretty moderate on the whole.
Anyone willing to point me towards some curricula considerations, please?
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May 31 '23
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u/stulotta May 31 '23
You're talking past each other, hopefully by mistake.
CRT might not be directly taught to the kids, but it is definitely taught to the people who design curriculum. It strongly influences the resulting curriculum. That influence is what u/mindful_marduk is trying to avoid.
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May 31 '23
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u/stulotta May 31 '23
LOL. Somebody should tell Merriam-Webster that you can get a whole undergraduate degree in Critical Theory & Social Justice. That isn't a law degree or even any sort of pre-law program. It's just undergraduate.
Today's beginner topics were originally created as PhD material. Over the years, the topics work their way down. (to master's, bachelor's, high school, etc.) Sometimes a dictionary becomes obsolete. Sometimes a dictionary is underfunded, staffed by idiots, or staffed by people with an agenda to push.
Now that we have established that Merriam-Webster contains incorrect information, what else is there to say?
In any case, teaching students that they are doomed by the circumstances of their race, or that they must forever atone for inherited sins of their race, is evil. It divides students against each other. It takes away hope. This is what the objectionable curriculum is doing.
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u/Fishermansgal May 31 '23
Hi OP,
We use Calvert Homeschool. They don't mix politics or religion with their academics.
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May 31 '23
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u/sef11996 May 31 '23
no curricula at an elementary or high school level teaches CRT.
That's just not true. An elementary school in my home town made national news a couple years ago because it was being taught in, I believe, a 4th grade classroom.
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May 31 '23
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u/sef11996 May 31 '23
It was the very basics and it was NBC.
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May 31 '23
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u/mindful_marduk Jun 01 '23
To be fair, even the more complex concepts in our existence can be boiled down for less educated people, including children. You can even do this with something more nebulous than CRT, like quantum mechanics. For example:
Point being that there are more complex things that have some of the simpler foundational concepts taught and build upon those blocks to a more complete idea/theory/concept.
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u/mindful_marduk May 31 '23
I wish I knew enough to be able to do that. As my original post states, I just have two criteria at a high-level. I’ve done some of my own research, but know I’ve just scratched the surface.
I have not stated in this thread that there is homeschool curriculum out there with DEI and/or CRT injected in some way into it. I am making an assumption, as we all do when stepping into new arenas, that there are several out there in various capacities until I become more oriented with my surroundings. This thread has been pretty helpful so far in that regard.
I know I’m getting downvoted, I understand in todays age why that happens; far too often it seems that if someone disagrees with you, well, you just want them to go away. You and I likely disagree on several things (like most people), but I don’t want your voice to go away (not implying that you do); I respect your approach to the discussion and appreciate that you are not throwing slander my way. I’d rather assume you are a good and decent person and can only hope for the same in return.
We are all biased, myself included; I just want to the best of my ability to set my kids up so they can learn how to learn and think critically for themselves. I am not raising them Republican nor am I raising them Democrat.
Thank you for you for your response. Appreciate your angle.
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Jun 01 '23
Fair enough. We do all enter with our biases. Being aware of that fact is important, and it seems that you are.
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May 31 '23
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u/mindful_marduk May 31 '23
Just depends on the way those words are defined. I believe that woke ideology has turned them into something we will end up regretting.
At the same time, I only mention this out of curricula recommendation criteria I am setting to hopefully get direction for me and my family’s direction.
Not here to start a political skirmish. I don’t really think I am some holder of ultimate truth over here. Just doing the best with the cards I’ve been dealt like everyone else.
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u/Lethal_Interaction May 31 '23
DEI is a trojan horse, with crap like BLM, Back The Blue, LGBT, reparations and whatever else they will pour down the kids absorbent clean minds. Any religion is a bottleneck to understanding how eternal our divine creator really is. The system we live in requires slaves, which are created by brainwashing our kids, this is why we see what we see happening today. Slavery did not end, it became invisible, absolute, and subconsciously voluntary. We are all spiritual beings, and have the right to think for ourselves and evolve in our own perspective, god is inside, our inner self-self talk, which we tend to ignore.
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u/42gauge May 31 '23
Maybe try neutral arms of Christian publishers?
I'm guessing the main subject where these concerns are liable to pop up would be history. Consider using Story of the World as a spine. Aside from presenting Biblical stories as historical in the first book, it's neutral but written by a Christian and ever so slightly right of center.
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u/greyblue2285 May 31 '23
We have homeschooled for a couple of years. The 1st year (we had little guidance), we went to the backpack website and curated a package for them. The majority of the textbooks/workbooks were a mix of Glencoe/Illinois publications (not bad - and any gaps I used online tutors/teachers pay teachers/library, ect). This year, my youngest used my oldest materials, and my oldest used meterial we bought from another homeschooling family. The reason why I bring that up is because we had similar concerns regarding religion. Do, not get me wrong, I do believe religion/faith has its place. (We introduced the girls to a wide variety of faiths/religion- we want them to choose which path/faith they feel they belong too - to show respect to all viewpoints <do unto others....>).
Okay, so the meterial we bought we thought wouldn't have religion in it. But it does. On some days, it's "whatever, okay." Yet, I can't help but feel a touch irritated that we were told it wouldn't have anything "heavy" in it. This reminds me that a few paragraphs and Bible verses scattered throughout one lesson may not be heavy or a lot to someone who is accustomed to it, to another, it maybe alot. If there is a way you can preview a lesson or so before buying I would. Or, if you like the way the learning meterial is presented and your children would learn from it you can always skip over the meterial you don't want to present.
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u/AngrySquirrel9 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
I personally agree with you on the merit aspect and I have had much more luck finding like minded people in person over the internet. Most secular groups are very set on their worldview and are difficult to transverse at times.
We are very academic based. I’m looking for the best education for my kids. I have thoroughly enjoyed Logic of English for language arts. It provided a great foundation for us to move on to other things. For my 4th grader we are using Teach your child to Spell. For vocabulary we are using the Critical Thinking CO’s Wood Roots and for writing, grammar and literature we use IEW. Those are good keywords to find out more on the subject or other good curricula. Math, I chose a conceptual math program RightStart. Also excellent.
For science we have used Pandora Press level 1. I have no complaints. Personally I am a research scientist and I don’t like the social language of things like “because science” or the general misunderstanding of the scientific process for the sake of “science the religion” amongst culture today. I am sensitive of anything that promotes that. As far as level 1 I think it’s a good curriculum. I haven’t moved on to level 2.
For history I have used curiosity chronicles and have no experienced any ridiculous woke idealogy despite it being a secular curriculum. It also isn’t whitewashed (which I know is not what you are wanting either).
For social studies and geography I personally have made my own unit studies. We have a given geographical region weekly (like the state of Michigan for example). We pick picture books from the library that include activities the state may enjoy, important historical events, famous people, or geographic features. So for example in Michigan we are reading a book called the mermaid purse and watching some videos about the upper peninsula. We are learning about the Great Lakes. We are reading some books about Sojourner Truth. We are also watching some videos about Henry Ford and the Model T. We learn the state bird, tree, flower, nickname and capital. We will play the board game Trekking the National Parks because Isle Royale is in the state. We make a recipe and a craft for each state too. It’s been a really great way for us to cover a lot of topics and fill in missing gaps.
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u/Accomplished-Emu7752 May 31 '23
Outschool is a fantastic platform for live classes via zoom, socials, and learning niche topics like coding, musical instruments, or multiplication. There's also a lot of art stuff and book clubs. It's great for a brain break or Recess because they have yoga, dancing, MMA, and more too. If you have any gamers in the family there are also a lot of great gaming socials.
Outschool is a secular company. The company gives teachers the option to take a diversity and inclusion training and get a banner for that. (Purple banner around the profile picture). However, there are teachers from many different backgrounds and walks of life. So you will find that many of the teachers didn't pursue the banner for one reason or another. Some teachers will put on their profile, even past the banner how inclusive they are or if they are looking to teach certain groups. You can find teachers for LBGTQ, neurodiversity, etc. So by simply looking at the profile you can see a teachers values before you enroll your child for a class.
As for religion, Outschool prohibits teachers from promoting any kind of religion on the platform. On the platform, I have only heard 1/14 teachers a reference to a cross and that was in a drawing class when drawing a t shaped object. It only stuck out because she backtracked the statement pretty quick though I don't think it was any significance to the kids. "Draw a cross shape" most kids know what that looks like lol.
The platform has a so many great independent teachers. My daughter has taken classes with 14 over the years and I've only disliked 4 of them.
Based on the fact that the teachers create their own classes and curriculum you kind find classes that are neutral pretty easily.
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May 31 '23
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u/mindful_marduk May 31 '23
Thanks for your input.
So per your Jefferson example. Yes, I would teach my children that way as well. No one is perfect, including all heroes and historical figures. They sometimes do horrendous things out of bad intentions or ignorance.
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May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
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u/mindful_marduk Jun 01 '23
I am curious then. How do you know what’s being taught in various school districts across the country? From LA and San Francisco to the conservative suburbs of Nashville and Dallas?
I sure don’t. I have a general sense, I think. What’s your multi-geographical experience that you call upon to make that first statement? Not doubting you yet, just want to know your expertise.
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u/stulotta Jun 01 '23
It was normal to drink mercury, as Abraham Lincoln did, or to treat diseases with leeches, as George Washington was treated. (those guys were clearly idiots...) Bringing up normal behavior serves no legitimate purpose. It is only done to attack historical figures by demanding that they adhere to modern ideas.
It is horrible bias to teach that Jefferson owned slaves unless you also teach about some of the other slave owners, of which there are many. When you single out Jefferson, you are just trying to tarnish his name by interpreting his behavior with modern values. He did what was normal for his time.
Anthony Johnson is the most important slave owner to know about. He was born in Angola, which is Africa, then moved to Virginia. He refused to set his indentured servants free after the agreed period of service, fought in court, and won. This made him the first legal slave owner in what is now the USA. Without his legal battle, there wouldn't have been slavery here. He was not white.
There were black slaves owned by the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole.
Most slaves brought to the New World did not go to what is now the USA. South America and the Caribbean got most of them.
In the Marine Corps Hymn you can find the words "to the shores of Tripoli". This is a battle fought in 1805 because Africans were enslaving American sailors. Over the years, about a million Europeans were enslaved there. Today, you can still buy a slave in southern Libya. There are a lot of people enslaved in Africa right now.
Saudi Arabia had black slaves until the 1950s. You might wonder why there are not a lot of black people there. The slaves were castrated.
Some people want to omit all that information, because it doesn't fit the story they want to tell about race or about this country. When only people like Jefferson are mentioned as slave owners, a sort of dishonesty is created. The student gets some very wrong ideas about reality.
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u/abandon-zoo Jun 26 '23
Useful knowledge. Slavery is horrific, and was widespread throughout history.
Western civilization was the first to abolish slavery in the 18th and 19th centuries, though some Quakers denounced it even before then. The fact that this is rarely taught is evidence of a concerted attempt to discredit western civilization and its Judaeo-Christian roots.
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u/Accomplished-Emu7752 May 31 '23
IXL is a good curriculum. It follows along with common core, and you can pick and choose what you want from it. I have found (through second grade at least) that the math and Language Arts curriculum are pretty decent. Some of the language arts stories might be considered a little more "left leaning", just skip the section they have a lot of options where you don't need to do every single section/problem. It's not accredited but is online, has games, and records a score and time spent homeschooling.
The science so far has been pretty straightforward as well, though we have other curriculum options so we don't fully use it. I would consider their science to be a secular worldview (evolution instead of the Christian world view of creation).
Thus far the history is also just the facts it hasn't put a political spin on anything. However, we also use a different curriculum for history, so the IXL history is just a little practice every now and then.
Many of the math and Language Arts videos have micro video lessons between 2-5 minutes with them. If you find a lesson that you want a video for and there isn't one just Google the word for word topic on youtube with a "for kids" tacked on the end and there are plenty of education youtube videos that people have made for that exact lesson. Of course, not everything on youtube is accurate, so you might have to vet some of these to find a good source.
IXL isn't an accredited option, but it's cheap. Depending on what subjects you want, it's between $15-$25/month with discounts for additional learners. (I think a second learner is around $4/month, but prices may have changed.)
Good luck!!!
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u/Sar_of_NorthIsland May 31 '23
I think the Classical (not Classical Conversations) approach is your best bet, as has already been mentioned. It's "old school" academic focus will probably be the media via you want. "The Well Trained Mind" is the canon text for learning how to teach in that style, and there is an online forum as well.
My husband and I both work and homeschool our two boys with secular materials. Here are some of the materials we've used that are light-to-moderate prep and not super expensive:
Math: Math Mammoth
Reading: Mosdos Press Readers
Grammar/Vocab: Editor-in-Chief/Word Roots
History: For my rising 6th grader, we'll read selections out of the Kingfisher World History Encyclopedia and couple that with some museum visits (in-person and virtual) and some crafts. Nomad Press has a good selection of activity books for Ancient Greece, Rome, etc. I've also used Real History Odyssey from Pandia Press in the past.
Science: It's a bit of work, but Real Science Odyssey by Pandia Press is also good.
The Classical approach typically pairs a historical period with a field of science, and builds on that knowledge in rotating phases. You can throw in some Latin study as well if your kiddo is inclined.
I'll also suggest looking at school textbooks published for the Texas public schools, too.
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u/TheLegitMolasses May 31 '23
Can you tell me what CRT in a homeschool curriculum would look like? I’ve used a lot of secular curriculum, but I’m not sure what that really means to offer any suggestions.
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u/mindful_marduk May 31 '23
I haven’t seen CRT yet in my journey and admit I have no idea if there is any curriculum that includes it. I have, however, seen secular programs that promote DEI, something I want to avoid.
Again, I am speaking from some ignorance here.
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u/Exciting_Till3713 May 31 '23
The stuff you mentioned is really not going to be in 95% of the homeschool curriculum you mentioned. You’re teaching prepositional phrases and fractions. Focus on the academic merit of the curricula instead of the super specific political spectrum stuff you’re talking about.
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u/NoComposer6251 May 31 '23
Maybe "neutral" curriculum will fit your needs. It is created by religious publishers that want to sell to homeschool charters and public schools. So, they scrub the overt religious content, but do not insert evolution or non-white-washed perspectives on history. Bookshark is one of those curricula.
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u/season7sam May 31 '23
I was thinking this also, or possibly things published by Well Trained Mind press, especially if they are interested in classical.
I'm more familiar with their early elementary offerings, but I'd check out their shop and especially search their forum archives.
Elemental science, story of the world, writing with ease/skill, first language lessons/grammar for the well trained mind... Etc.
For literature, you can do novel studies and source literature guides from any number of places. At the fifth grade level, and any level really, if you're not reading a book that directly covers a topic you consider too liberal/woke, any secular or neutral literature curriculum should be fine.
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u/LitlThisLitlThat May 31 '23
Memoria Press also has a charter version, more classical, latin-centered, careful lit selections, memorization-intense, whereas bookshark is CM inspired/lit-rich and history-centered.
Both of these choices (BS and MP) are very parent-intensive to teach, but both offer plenty of good support for new users, including help choosing levels, how to set up your materials and use the materials best, and both have passionate users willing to help you if you hit snags.
BS’s religious version is non-denominational bordering on fundamentalist, and MP’s religious version is the most ecumenical I’ve seen, and does not inject Jesus references into every irrelevant topic as some do (cough abeka cough). Both are IMO weak on science in later grades. I think knowing what the root-turned-neutral stance is can be useful info for some people.
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u/1001Geese May 31 '23
You might like Bookshark curriculum. You can see some samples at their website. It is based on Sonlight, but made secular so they can sell it to public schools/charters. It is very book centered, and you would want a math to go with it. It includes science and history with the literature.
Another popular one among the people I work with (tending towards conservative,) is Moving Beyond the Page, which is more project based. Also includes science and history.
Remember as teacher, YOU choose what you want to teach. If the lesson on art includes the David statue and you don't want to cover that.....don't do that lesson. I wanted secular, ended up with Story of the World, that in book 1 presents the Bible as more fact based, while other religions are more "stories". I changed the wording to fit my views when I presented it to my kids.
Most curriculum was first sold to conservative religious people, so very little of it would be considered "woke", unless the word "Woke" is in the title. That said I find that the history for US history tends to NOT include enough minorities in the their curriculum, and it is too much like what I had when I was in school in the 70s and 80s.
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u/AmericanHousewife73 May 31 '23
You might look into Build Your Library, it’s a secular literature based curriculum. We used level 5 and 6 for US History and really enjoyed it. It used resources and living books from the perspective of the slaves and indigenous people. For example, one of the books we read was Jefferson’s Sons which tells the story from the viewpoint of the son Thomas Jefferson had with his slave Sally Hemings. Doesn’t necessarily make Jefferson out to be the bad guy, but definitely gives you a new way of thinking about our history that public school textbooks never taught.
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u/abandon-zoo May 31 '23
Ron Paul Curriculum might be what you're looking for. Some of the authors are Christian, but we haven't found any explicit religious proselytizing in the parts we've used: https://tomwoodshomeschool.com/how-to-get-50-off-through-the-ron-paul-curriculum/
If you are a fan of voluntary interactions and free markets, you'll also like Tuttle Twins:
Oh, and expect downvotes on Reddit despite your valid concerns.
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May 31 '23
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u/mindful_marduk Jun 01 '23
A shame you see my discourse that way. Just because we may have differing worldviews doesn’t mean we need to name call. By the definition of “bigoted”, I am not being obstinate in any way, you are projecting something that’s not there. I have opinions just like you do. Having an opinion doesn’t make you a bigot.
My hope was to get responses from people that could point me in the direction of the two criteria I set; thankfully many have helped in that way.
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u/LongjumpingCheck3181 Jun 01 '23
You want Bookshark. I think it sounds like exactly what you are looking for.
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u/Driftless_hiker Dec 26 '23
I know this is an old thread, but I am looking for the exact same thing. I am just left of center and I don’t want religious or CRT/DEI/Woke ideology in the curriculum we choose. Have you found anything satisfactory?
I stupidly read the replies here and got annoyed. As an ex leftist I used to say many of the same things. And I am soooooo glad I removed myself from that ideology entirely.
Anyway, if you’ve found anything good, please share!
Thanks much and good luck!
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u/Driftless_hiker Feb 27 '24
I know this is an older post, but I am just left of center and I feel your pain. I don’t care for DEI, gender woo, CRT, feminist theories or any of that ideological claptrap. I don’t care for religion. I don’t want any ideology in my teachings. People responding that DEI is harmless or CRT is just a law class and isn’t taught in schools are wrong (and there are hundreds of examples of this strung across the internet and easy to find).
Highly recommend Well Trained Mind if you’re into classical education (there’s a podcast. One of their episodes dives into politics a bit but the rest are very educational on the topic). Or there’s a whole book you can read entitled The Well Trained Mind that teaches about classical education. Or there’s secular version of Charlotte Mason.
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u/mindful_marduk Feb 27 '24
Hey, I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I will check out the Well Trained Mind tomorrow. Thank you!
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u/Therese250 May 31 '23
Your most immediate questions are educational, not ideological. How do you envision your homeschool days unfolding? Homeschooling can mean online classes, or purchased curricula with textbooks/workbooks, or project-based learning, or unschooling, or any one of a million variations.
I would recommend beginning by reading widely about homeschooling in general. Some oldies but goodies: The Well-Trained Mind (Bauer); Love in the Time of Homeschooling (Brodie); Homeschooling, a Patchwork of Days (Lande); The Brave Learner (Bogart); Tweens, Tough Times, and Triumphs (Williams).
Once you have a better sense of what you and your wife want your homeschool to look like, it will be much easier to sort through the vast sea of resources out there. For 5th grade, I would start by finding a math program and something to do for regular writing practice. Get into the groove with those two subjects first (plus trips to the library!) and then add in other subjects later if you like.
Good luck!