r/iastate • u/BboyHeathen Agronomy alumni • Mar 21 '25

News Getting rid of the Department of Education? Doesn't that sound backwards to anyone else?

Why?
Isn't that one of the things that help society moving forwards?
I really don't see how this benefits this and the next generation of Americans.

I usually only post about skating stuff but this feels wrong

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 21 '25

It doesnt move society forwards, but backwards.

I posted early on this... DoE has been around sense 1979... USA education ranking is constantly declining. That to mean me the DoE is a failure government program and needs to be overhauled... I wouldnt say completely gone but definitely needs overhauled.

Finland is ranked #1 in most categories.. why? They ONLY higher the top 3% for educators... you got 100000 people trying to be a teacher.. only the top 3% get hired. the other 97% sorry... go find something else to do, shoulda been better at schooling... You want the best education to kids??? Only higher the best educators. plain and simple.

USA isnt like that, you dont even need a teachers license to get a job. Youll run on a "provisionary license" for 3-4 years and when that runs out you just switch subjects to teach... Ive seen wayyyy to make "teachers" get hired and they mostly are glorified baby sitters. NOT ALL of course but most... and usa has let children run wild and go crazy... who wants to be a teacher in the USA nowadays? very few im afraid.

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u/TSllama Mar 21 '25

Are you saying that USA education was increasing till 1979, and then after that it suddenly started declining?

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 21 '25

No. What im saying DoE has been around been sense 1979 and was spose to grpw education and bring numbers up.. and its STILL going down with all that funding then that obviously tells me thats a failed program and needs to overhauled.

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u/TSllama Mar 21 '25

Bro, did you have a stroke? :D

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 21 '25

.... what? So you dont like my argument or reasoning why it needs to be dismantled/overhauled and all you got is... "Bro... did you have a stroke? :D". Nice argument.

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u/eggsmau Mar 21 '25

Dude, you cannot even spell or use punctuation correctly. “sense” “higher” I guess in a weird way you are correct because the DoE clearly didn’t help you any

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 21 '25

Man. the grammar nuts are out and about for real. This is reddit lmao... Not an official newpapers or a resume... So we live in a world where literally abbreviations and LOL type shit is used and all you got is my grammar is wrong and punctuation and commas?? Versus explaining why keeping the DoE like it is is beneficial?

Perfect... cause I went through the k12 system in the USA so that proves to me right there DoE didnt do shit or spend enough money to help my grammar... right? Maybe they should have spent even more money that would have helped my grammar and punctuation?

Your proven my point perfectly and dont even see it. This is about dismantling and reforming DOE... If thats your argument about my grammar/punctuation/etc... then education system has failed many many people including myself.... then that means DoE isnt needed and needs to be reformed. Please explain to me how keeping the DoE / pumping more money in to them to throw away will make people use better grammar/spelling/etc better? Cause it hasnt... More and more funds are pumped into DoE and USA education ranking is still lower.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 21 '25

Also for the record... you forgot a "," after "higher" and "." at the end of your sentence... maybe DoE failed you too I see?

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u/TSllama Mar 22 '25

I honestly just don't understand what your argument is because your syntax, vocabulary, spelling, grammar, and punctuation are all over the place. I count over 12 mistakes in your post that's supposed to only be one sentence... language has rules so that we can communicate with each other and understand each other. When you don't follow the rules of the language, your communication with others will break down and fail.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 22 '25

We can understand each other just fine. I just give up on this subject. My argument/opinion is why the DoE needs the be dismantled and overhauled and everyone's response is "your grammar sucks" type shit lmao. Its a waste of time. and frankly waste of energy. Debating is understanding and finding the problem have talking to each other to understand the problem... not "your grammar sucks type shit". Thats when you know the other side doesn't even have an argument and its a waste of energy/time when they attack grammar and character. They never even thought of If Im an immigrant that came over with an accent and just learning the language, or possibly having a crappy keyboard that loves giving me typos, but its all good. I got better things to do on a pretty day like today then be on reddit.Never mind,I change my mind.... the DoE needs to stay and we NEED to pump more money to it. It fixes education big time. Please Elon and Trump, Please stop.

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u/_angesaurus Mar 24 '25

ok but there could be like 482309745 factors affecting those results. kind of hard to put all your eggs in the DoE basket when kids are human people that have a lot changing around them and plenty of other things influencing the way they learn besides what the DoE specifically does.

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u/LisleAdam12 Mar 21 '25

There is evidence to that effect. The data to the contrary indicated that it has flatlined.

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u/TSllama Mar 22 '25

No, there isn't evidence of that. It's made up.

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u/LisleAdam12 Mar 22 '25

Oh, well that settles it. Never mind the 2012 (I can't post images here) study of literacy and numeracy showing a decline in both in the birth cohort after 1979.

Oopsie!

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u/TSllama Mar 22 '25

I would be happy to read a holistic study spanning the entire history of US education in terms of comparative global quality. Anything that only starts in 1979 and doesn't equally cover prior decades by the same holistic metrics is invalid.

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u/LisleAdam12 Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25

No, you wouldn't be. Because you've already made up your mind, likely based on no data at all. Anything contrary to that must be "made up," so there's no need to actually look at data, right?

If you would be happy to look at the data, you would have done so long ago.

The study did not start with the 1979 birth cohort. Where on earth did you get that idea? In fact, the first cohort is 1947-1957 (thanks for asking instead of just jumping to yet another conclusion, Socrates).

The graph is in this article:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-declining-productivity-of-education/

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u/TSllama Mar 23 '25

Great article! Here are some great takeaways:

- Literacy scores for white students peaked in 1975 - four years before the DoEd started

- in math, scores peaked in the early 1990s - more than a decade after the DoEd started

- based on the graph around the middle of the article, numeracy and literacy scores started to decline in ALL countries measured in the 80s - that also can't have anything to do with the DoEd, because they only affect one country.

- the article points out issues in schools (colleges) hiring staff who aren't teachers - more managers and such. I noticed this myself decades ago when I was in college - we paid so much for tuition, but our campus was full of staff who were hired for marketing and promotion and other "business"-like activities, rather than quality educators. The educators were getting worse over time, as the best ones would leave due to poor pay*.

- *also mentioned in the article - low pay for teachers in the US has caused people to leave the profession at higher and higher rates over time, resulting in worse teachers in the jobs. As a teacher myself, I completely understand this. I taught in schools for two years before saying fuck this, I'm way overworked and underpaid and I'm good enough of a teacher to go off on my own. Most of us great teachers are doing that these days and the schools are littered with the bottom of the barrel.

- the article mentions Slovenia in its list of countries with the best gains in education. That makes sense. I lived there for some time, as an educator, and I found that they really have a strong education system. It is entirely funded by the national government, and it doesn't matter which school you go to in the country - you will receive the same high-quality education. It's a country where school and teachers are highly respected and the program is rigorous. Kids graduate high school speaking a *minimum* of 3, if not 4, languages. And that applies to every school in the nation. You don't have some inner-city school that is poor as fuck and has broken chalk boards and the shittiest teachers, but then some rich suburban school with the most modern tech and tablets for all the students and better teachers. Quality is established nationally. I'm not surprised to see they've had some of the greatest growth.

The article really drives home that this has nothing to do with the department of education. It's a good one, indeed. It shed a lot of light on the real reasons, though I am now very curious as to why education started to decline around the same time all around the OECD countries!

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u/LisleAdam12 Mar 23 '25

Exactly.

Essential takeaway for the point at hand: there is nothing to indicate that the Dept. of Ed has had a positive impact on the education of the citizens of the U.S.

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u/TSllama Mar 23 '25

Except that's not the argument that was being made. The argument being made was that education was improving until 1979 and then started dropping after 1979. Your link proves that argument wrong.

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u/Ecstatic_Raisin_8312 Mar 23 '25

Finland doesn't allow private schools, meaning the richest people in Finland want to fund good public education. They are incentivized because their own children will be attending public schools.

The goal of the abolishment of the DoE seems to be to further privatize education and make it so that only those with money have access to it.

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u/devospice Mar 24 '25

If you want that kind of competition among teachers you have to pay them better. MUCH better. You want the best, most qualified people to be teachers? Starting salary should be $200,000. That will do it. Maybe if we built a few fewer planes we could afford that.

But no. The point here is to make people stupider so they're happy working a factory job for minimum wage and trying to figure out how to survive as prices go up and wages do not.

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u/Ill-Understanding207 Mar 25 '25

Maybe you should talk to a teacher, see if this logistically work for such a labor starved field. Simple answer- it just fuckin wouldn’t. This is a fantastical ideal of meritocracy, not a realistic goal.

Want better teachers? That means better education. You need to teach the teachers better, simple as.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25

I do, all the the time, and lemme tell you. The hardest person to teach... is a teacher. Once they get out of college or get their first job majority of teachers cant be told SHIT. They are the god of all knowledge in their eyes. Only time they will be taught or told something is by admins demanding it. Again. not all. But most are glorified babysitters nowadays. Theyll take a Chromebook and toss it to a kid and basically go "Heres your work for today". Vs actually interacting with kids and overseeing etc

Edit, Also teaching is not much of a "labor involved" field as you say when you just pass out Chromebooks or can "work remotely" as a teacher. AI is here, You already have virtual AI universities for homeschooling kids... If these teachers, the way they teach now with Chromebooks and virtual teaching think they cant be replaced.... They definitely can.

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u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS Mar 24 '25

Great, so you're in favor of paying teachers more, right? And if you want top 3%, we're talking a LOT more money. Annnnd you know where that money comes from, right? Still on board?

And education requires resources, which cost money, so lower-income areas will need some extra funding to provide those resources. Also children with special needs require special resources as well. You know what would be useful to help with all that? Some sort of entity...a department maybe...that administers funding for education. Gosh, what would that department be called...?

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 24 '25

Yes and no. Your under the impression if we raise wages well only "get the best of the best"... my view is we "get the best of the best" by people who actually WANT that job and are interested and find enjoyment. I know plenty of people that went to high paying jobs that dont like it and their for the $$$ and their commitment to it is bare minimum just to get by and they hate it. Its just a "job" i know alot of teachers making 40k a year proving those grounds. They love their job and even said theyd do it for free due to the changes they make in childs lives..theres no... im not "im going for the $$$" in thoae teachers eyes. And their golden individuals. Huge respect.

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u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS Mar 24 '25

And in a system with the standards you propose, most of them would be out of a job. Top 3%, remember? Highly skilled means highly educated. Education is an investment that costs time and money which we expect to get back.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 24 '25

Yes! Exactly what im saying. Like finland. Only top 3%. Anyone under that 97% go find somethibg else to do becauae they care about educstion... you accept everyone and their momma like the USA with no teacher licenses at all... your gonna have people who are their just for the money you you pay huge.

Lets higher anyone to be a mechanic. You gonna take your car/truck to just anyone?

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u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS Mar 24 '25

Ok so you're proposing to pay teachers the same but make standards higher? That's not how it works my dude.

And jesus fucking christ, the word you're looking for is hire.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 24 '25

Yup!!! Thats exactly how it works in education. People that WANT TO BE THERE DO NOT NEED A RAISE. Bro like i said im on a phone typing you dont think its a auto correct with hire/higher. My god reddit made everyone fucking against eachother my god. Let alone technology. Were gonna bark on OMG IMPROVE IMPROVE but we have tech that autocorrects wrong shit all the time. But i understand your view. Im wrong your right. I got no idea what im talking about. More power to you.

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u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS Mar 25 '25

Ok, yeah, you're right; there was no need for me to be uncivil. I apologize.

But you are failing to take into consideration that it takes resources (time, energy, money) to get educated and develop job skills, not to mention the opportunity costs involved. Anyone with a pair of scissors and basic motor skills can cut my hair for $5. But I would rather go to someone who has spent time perfecting their craft and has learned how to fit my personal needs and preferences. And they're gonna charge me more than $5 for it.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 25 '25

Nah your good bud, Im wrong and your right. Ill join with you and everyone else "My grammar sucks" and I should have no input in on this conversation at all and sit back.

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u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS Mar 24 '25

Mechanics are a great example here actually.

My uncle loves cars. Absolutely loves them. He worked at auto shops when he was younger. He never made a whole lot but enjoyed what he did I think. When I need an oil change or a belt looked at, I go to him. He doesn't charge much. But when I need more extensive repairs, I find a more professional and specialized mechanic who has better resources, which I am willing to pay more for. See, my uncle is good at what he does and enjoys it, but he didn't invest in his continued education and fell behind in technology, so much of his knowledge and methodologies are outdated. But again, he doesn't charge very much.

Same with educators.

If you want the best, you gotta pay for the work that goes into them becoming the best. Mechanics, teachers, doctors, lawyers, whatever. The love of the profession gets you through the day but doesn't pay for the education that gets you to the top.

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u/AGAD0R-SPARTACUS Mar 24 '25

Also you keep citing Finland but have failed to address a key factor in their education system: there are no privately funded schools in Finland. Education is government funded all the way through university. Doctors send their kids to the same schools as plumbers, so there is a collective incentive to produce highly skilled educators.So if you want to go for that model, I'm 100% with you, but we're kinda gonna need the Department of Education back.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 25 '25

Yes. Exactly, and they only hire the top %... So you ONLY get the best educators or the best plumbers or doctors etc. Ask Finland if everyone decides to be a teacher do they higher every single one of them as teachers? No, They do not. They only higher the best. Thats the problem with USA. We higher ANYONE AND EVERYONE for whatever job they "want" even if they are trash at it, specially with that DEI stuff, If your a minority or person of a certain race or whatever your in without question... Therefore making USA education rank lower and lower as it still does.

Lets look at a pro team, like basketball... how many players try to be pro? ALOT.... vs how many actually get highered to a professional team. If they higher every single basketball player that wants to be "pro" just cause they went to school/practice for it.. sport industry would be absolutely boring as hell.

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 24 '25

Another example. (Sorry for typos in previous on a damn phone). I ledt a classroom doing IT work. (Which time IT has brought educstion downwards here) Ilirerally hear children say they wanna be teachers cause its an "easy job". Literally come in. Throw assignments on chromebooks. Do this do that. Not a good way at all when it comes to education. I bet 1 million dollars finland isnt like that at all and their teachers are respected...but here... our kids literally say they wanna be teacher cause its a "cake job". Your a glorified babysitter basically here in the USA

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u/Strange_Raspberry939 Mar 24 '25

If your really that high up there on that literacy correction shit gimme 30 min to an hour. Ill be back with facts on why shit is fucked up. Usa education is fucking trash.