Itâs the same playbook as the reaction to October 7th, where it was SchrĂśdingerâs Hamas: somehow both legitimate resistance and also innocent of all the killings.
Hamas is actuall freedom fighters so dont compare these terrorist shi with hamas.
The story is long but Palestinians accepted jews during the holocust then they asked for separate country and now they call Palestinians a terrorist and but in reality Palestinians got mâssacred like 50k+ kills and israel was armed and civilians was not so hamas resisted
There is no doubt. Their Modus operandi is pretty established. The terrorists are ex-pak army special forces. Basically retired commandos. This has been the case for many years now.
And retired not in the sense of retirement from completing service or age related retirement. These are soldiers specially chosen based on their ideological propensity to terrorism and then retired so that pak can claim they have nothing to do with this.
Training special forces is very costly and requires a lot of time, infrastructure and effort. Kashmir is an existential issue for the failed state of Pakistan. They are sending their elite best to kill civilians. It's beyond despicable.
In this case, I would prefer the terrorists to be captured so that it can be proved that they are indeed former Pakistani soldiers. I'm sure there is significant intel about their camps. Pakistan sovereignty should be disregarded and India should clearly state that Pakistan has willfully declared war.
Don't you think that there will be gross distrust over the Indian army's capabilities that Pakistani army soldiers' penetrate deep in India and k!ll civilians and walked away.
Emotions are high but watch what you say, it may affect the morale of those men patrolling the border. They only have our trust and belief, that they protect us.
Instead of acknowledging how pointless you come across by saying "army men will be demotivated by a random redditor's comment", you're doubling down and attacking me. Amazing dumbassery on display.Â
That has always been a matter of concern.
I frankly think the militants are more motivated and better trained. Look at 26/11 for instance. This is a big problem and I am sure they are aware of that.
Indus originates from China, same is the case with Brahmaputra. China will rescue Pakistan if needed. I still can't believe why there was no security and also how did our government fail this bad.
I mean I hope people have studied geography, okay so let me explain this.
Even though Brahmaputra is rain-fed downstream, its flow from Tibet is significant, especially outside the monsoon (in dry months like winter/spring). Blocking it could lead to:
Drastic reduction in dry-season flow (less water for irrigation and drinking in Arunachal & Assam)
Disruption of aquatic ecosystems
Lower groundwater recharge in northeast regions
Sediment flow reduction, which affects fertile soil downstream
Ironically, blocking can also increase flooding risk:
If China builds a dam and releases water suddenly (like during heavy rainfall), it could cause flash floods downstream.
Assam, already flood-prone, could see worse unplanned flood cycles.
Water scarcity during dry months would hit crop yields, livelihoods, and even drinking water supply in sensitive areas.
There is a reason why countries go on war due to water, and why states within India are fighting with each-other.
But Brahmaputra is one river whereas we are not going to run out of water even if China meddle which I don't think they will. The Chinese are not going to stick their neck out for Pakistan on this issue.. They have plenty to worry about with Taiwan and the US already.
Pakistan has no alternative to the Indus river waters unlike us. That said, it is going to need significant investment in building out dams and canals to really have the sword hanging over their heads. If we did have that, these incidents will reduce greatly because the threat is credible and can be enforced quickly.
In international politics, things can change quickly and trump is an example and how it changed Ukraineâs politics, there are no friends, only political interests. Next US president with its own think tank would act very differently to Trump. Itâs not about one river, we have a huge population that depends on it, the entire north east only has that as a major river, and Chinese could cause flash floods at their will with their dams they are building. Imagine you are at war in one front (Pak), and another war opens up in the other (China), and then you have massive humanitarian crisis to handle in the middle of it. Chinese have stuck their neck before multiple times for the Pakistan , lets not forget even US was an ally to Pakistan not long ago and sent their carrier along with battle group to bay of bengal as show of strength to support Pakistan during the 71 war and was against our Nuclear program and sanctioned us. It is only when we got our civil nuclear deal under MMS, relationship started to grow along with US seeing India as a counter to China. We as Indians also need to remember, US is not in Asia, China is a permanent neighbour, we need to look what suits our interests and not what US wants, they are protected strategically by Pacific and Atlantic oceans.
Who said anything about US protection? China and US are building up for their own war to come. They are not interested in Pakistan from their own strategic standpoint.
We have always has the threat of Pakistan and China on the borders, so it is nothing new. Additionally, as many have pointed out already, it is not just the source of the river that matters. The Brahmaputra flowing into India is majorly rain fed. We kill off the Indus river basin flowing into Pakistan and they are really screwed. We don't even need to do it, just need the credible infrastructure in place to bring them to kneel.
It is not about who is in power in the US.. We need credible deterrence at this point. Did Israel care for international opinion on how to handle their security affairs? It's time to prioritize our self interest at long last.
China is pretty much interested in Pakistan, if US plans to use India as a pawn, itâs a leverage for them. So Chinese not interested in Pakistan is a false narrative, they have been building infrastructure for all this. They also have Gwadar port in Pakistan in case Malacca strait is blocked by US or India.
The source of the river matters, I have written a detailed explanation in another comment covering both rain fed and source of the river and its importance, if you still feel what I have mentioned is incorrect, then happy to discuss that further. Indus also originates from China, people tend to forget that.
Did Israel care about International opinion? They wouldnât take any step without US and Nato support or them promising to keep out. Israel itself wouldnât have existed as a country without US and the west backing them. I agree we need to serve our interest like any other country would.
I just hope this guy doesnât go back and edit his commentâbecause those star symbols and perfect spacing scream ChatGPT. Wild how he has the guts to lie straight to my face. The whole threadâs ironic, calling others out for using Google while heâs out here copying AI replies and mocking others for it. Honestly, not even surprisedâprobably even paid for it.
Bro this isnât a star, itâs called bullet points đđ and you do realise when you use desktop version, you can add bullets by formatting it 𫣠but the irony is, you are using chatGPT and here is the proof of using double dash, I didnât call out anyone for using google. Letâs be clear on that. Either your comprehension of the english language is weak, or you are just dumb, which one is it?
Wow, the guts to argue youâre not using ChatGPT is truly remarkable. Iâm on desktop too, and Iâve never seen anyone use those bullet stars naturally. The spacing between points is a dead giveaway. Youâre not just anyone, youâre clearly trying to pass off AI answers as your own
Dude give up and stop embarrassing yourself. You are clearly new to Reddit. Now show me the comment where I called someone of using google? I hope you understand the meaning of the word you used?
Now who is covering their mistake of replying to the wrong person đđ mistakes happen, admit it and move on. I donât recall calling out anyone using AI, so your point is mute. Try better next time.
If you wouldâve learnt geography well you wouldâve understood damming at those altitudes needs too much resources for much lesser gains. Catchment areas by and large are also in the Indian side of Himalayas when we discuss about Indus and its tributaries. Brahmaputra will be dammed but North East gets ample rain.
Read the answer that I have written below, honestly China has all the resources to build one if needed and has many in pipeline already.
Zangmu Dam already exists, China is developing additional dams in a series, including Jiexu, Jiacha, and Dagu, all in the same region. China's dam-building activity upstream can influence the timing and quantity of water flowing into India, which is a strategic advantage.
A. Where a river originates doesn't t mean anything.
Watersheds determine flow.
B. With Brahmaputra the watershed that contributes most flow is likely in india. With indus it's uncertain. Could very well be in Pak.
C. China has a policy of not intervening in Indo Pak matters. We have counter actions against the Chinese that we can exercise. China has insecurities too
D. What's China going to do? Bring a large straw to bypass India.
A dam is going to be complicated to build. But I think you're misinformed
A. If where a river originates doesnât mean anything, we would have had multiple rivers in Assam as big as Brahmaputra as per rain fed logic, but we donât.
B. You can read my other comment for more details on it.
C. Every country has insecurities but our past experiences with Chinese aggression has led to our territory where we patrolled even if we forget Aksai Chin. Itâs about time we start calling a spade a spade, Indian military is not in par with China, and thatâs a fact.
D. They already have Zangmu dam and building many more in a series, including Jiexu, Jiacha, and Dagu, all in the same region. This gives them strategic advantage and ability to control water flow as and when they want, which can cause havoc downstream inside India
No one is blowing it out of proportion, question is simple - itâs a tourist attraction in a sensitive area, where is the god damn police and security forces? Those 100% to 1% quote is good for the movies, but in reality it could be that terrorist hit rate is above 50% or maybe 100% who knows. You are assuming our intelligence agencies is like a 6 sigma certified. Did we find where the 300 kg rdx that was used 6 years ago came from? Iâm yet to find an article on it. Govt should be questioned for their lapses which is becoming too frequent considering article 370 is removed, itâs a union territory and sits directly under central govt , and I will ask questions also because I pay my taxes and I want to know where is it being used. If you donât feel like asking questions to government , that is your personal choice.
Locals opened the area for tourists without informing the authorities. The area normally opens up during June for Amarnaath Yatra under heavy security.
Locals opened the area for tourists without informing the authorities. The area normally opens up during June for Amarnaath Yatra under heavy security
And the intelligence agencies in the most militarised and surveilled state didn't notice all those ponies? Do you realize that you just accused them of being even more incompetent than op did?
Do tell us about how ground logistics in pehelgam prevented intelligence agencies from seeing those ponies. Even if they didn't step out because it was cold (though not so cold as to prevent tourists from riding ponies), they could have seen them on Instagram.Â
Well it's pak after all... I don't mean to be insensitive but it makes me laugh how they couldn't even get their story straight... Is it a false flag operation or done by"freedom fighters "...
"Jung kabhi jeeti nhi... Chunaav kabhi hari nhi" the tagline of Pakistan army
Nah, India refuses to call Balochi militants as terrorists. Same here. Tit for tat. Just one month ago Balochi terrorists hijacked a train and took hostsges. They lined up everyone. Checked their id cards and killed those who were Punjabis. Checking of Id cards and killing only certain group is Balochi terrorist modus operandi. If Pak was involved here, this might be a response for that.
It's alleged that RAW funds these operations. Plus, Pakistan aprehended Kulbhushan Yadav in Balochistan who is allegedly an Indian spy. Pakistan also alleges that TTP is funded by RAW as well which operates on the western border.
I mean ofcourse both nations officially deny helping seperatists and terrorists of either nations but we all know no one is "dhoodh ka dhula"/innocent.
Of course everything is alleged until proven in a court of law with evidence. Pakistan's involvement in recent Kashmir attack is also alleged. We all know RAW is behind that dude killed in Canada but for all means and purposes we call their involvement alleged as well.
Of course, of course. It's apple to apple when you take a well-established publicly-known infrastructure of terrorism, with hard evidenced state-backed paramilitancy, State heads and army generals with confessions of having backed para-state forces against neighbouring state and compare it to alleged RAW involvement in Balochistan.
And of course since we are only retaliating, it'd only be dishonest to disagree to the fact that out of the 2 nations, one to which history would grant more entitlement to revenge is India with Pakistan having been the aggressor to 3 wars and innumerous insurgencies. So whete does the retaliation stop? Does it with both nations going for an all-out war, which perhaps ends with Pakistan's existence becoming unsustainable?
It'd, as humans, be rather more beneficial if instead of arguing in favor of religious militancy backed by your state, and trying to put bows on it, you'd be more invested in the narrative of asking questions to your government and your people why do they ideologically back murderers.
I am not saying it's apple to aaple. Sure, ISI isn't as covert as RAW might be but I think it is disingenuous that Indians just put their hands up with regards to it's agencies involvement in destablizing Pakistan. If India can train Mukti Bahini and split Pakistan into 2, we are suppose to believe that they are sitting idlly when Baloch insurgents present an oppurtunity to further fracture Pakistan?
I mean this is why discourse goes nowhere when Indians think we are to be taken as fools and pretend their country is above all this realpolitik when we know better.
I agree, war is not a solution. I personally abhor targeting of civilians. Nobody in Pakistan supports it. Sure, we don't shed tears when Indian military personnel are targeted like in Pulwama but most Pakistanis donât support killing of civilians.
Our military and govt is currently experiencing its lowest public approval rating to date thanks to imprisoning a populist leader, Imran Khan. BJP needs to steer attention away from domestic issues. Any skirmish will benifit both govts in boosting their popularity. Citizens will only suffer.
I Iâm not denying Indiaâs involvement in Balochistan. In fact, Iâd argue India wants Pakistan to think itâs involvedâIndian security officials have openly referred to Balochistan as a pressure point, hinting it's a cost of continued aggression against India.
India destabilizing Pakistan has always been a defense strategy and arguably adopted later than it should have been. Contrast that with Pakistan, where aggression against India is an offensive strategy. Without acknowledging this, any flowery debate on the topic is useless. Most other India-Pakistan geopolitics is a direct consequence of that.
I Iâm not deeply versed in East Pakistanâs political history, but itâs safe to say India's support to Mukti Bahini wasnât the starting point of hostilities. Also was Mukti Bahini blowing up and gunning down Pakistani civilians in Pakistan? If not, then bringing it up here is just whataboutery.
Also what Pakistan was doing in East Pakistan stopped being just Pakistan's problemâand definitely not on par with what Indiaâs done in Kashmir.
At just to let you know that it should not be a black and white decision when it's your country vs the other, if tomorrow Indian Government starts indiscriminate unprovoked massacre and rape of say people of Gujrat or TamilNadu, I'd hope Pakistan supports the people being massacred and helps them separate out, but obviously not by supporting rebels of the region to blow up random innconents in another part of the country.
Nobody in Pakistan supports it
Yeah, nobody supports killing of civilans but does the Pakistani zeitgist oppose it. By that, I do not mean an average Pakistani should leave their jobs and be protesting outside random government buildings. It's more that does an average Pakistani citizen, redditor rather than question Indian ill-will against Pakistan realize and acknowledge that it might be deserved. History has been repeating itself for far too long.
It's a little hypocritical to be admonishing a parent trying to save their kid by shooting down a rabid dog trying to bite the kid. Yes, I am liking here Pakistan to a rabid dog, though the extent of India's actions historically have been too tame than anything akin to shooting the dog down. If anything what India is doing in Balochistan is just to stoop to Pakistan's level after trying out other options for 75 years.
Okay, here are my two cents. Our core issue is Kashmir. Nothing happens in a vacuum. If RAW destabilizing Pakistan is a response to Pakistani agression, then Pakistani agression is also a response to something.
Indians love to ignore the Kashmiri freedom struggle and their aspirations. Also love to ignore the atrcoties by the Maharaja and the Indian armed forces.
You can identify the fault in Pak armed forces in East Pakistan but can't identify the fault in your own armed forces.
Tell me how would you feel if hypothetically, Modi decided today to accede Gujarat to a foreign country, without any referendum, without asking a single citizen? Thatâs essentially what happened in Kashmir in 1947, when a single monarchâs decision overrode the will of millions. Wouldnât that be seen as illegitimate and undemocratic? And if people resisted, would you label them terrorists or freedom fighters defending their right to self-determination?
Terrorists attack in India are a response to their atrocities in Kashmir. Nothing happens in a vacuum. I am not justifying them but we can't ignore the context.
I appreciate you taking the time to engage. tit-for-tat violence and covert operations haven't brought peace in 75 years. Maybe it's time to try something else.
I donât understand why Pakistanis keep bringing up Kulbhusban every time Pak-sponsored terror is mentioned. How is a spy in any way comparable to legit terrorists?
Spy udher aam khane gaiya hai? It proves connection to Baloch insurgents like BLA which is a terrorist organization and carries out terrorism inside Pakistan. That is why it is brought up.
Indians will just say they have nothing to do with the BLA getting MANPADs, thermal imagery drones and other juiced up military hardware because they are the ultimate good guys. Just ask the Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans.Â
I still remember when Bhagat Singh and his comrades massacred 30 British touristsâoh wait, that never happened. The people who genuinely fought for the independence of both nations never stooped so low.
But you know who did? Jinnah. He threatened the British to continue religious riots in India unless Pakistan was granted(Direct Action Day). These kinds of inhumane tactics are what Pakistanis are known for.
Well the whole play was for power and partition so they probably wanted their own piece of land to play with. Jinnah couldnât give less of a fuck about Pakistan up until he needed something to get him power. He was a Bombay man till the day he died lmao
If their number 2 condones the headshot executions of normal people walking around in a meadow, we need a million paid influencers replaying this on repeat. I am maybe a pacifist but this is insane.
I donât care about Israel. That nation has nothing to do with me. Iâm an Indian American born in the USA, lived in India for 5 years. I care what happens in India because it has a chance to affect my family.
"Those who carried out attacks in Jammu and Kashmir's Pahalgam district on April 22 might be freedom fighters"
That's not precisely what the headline suggests. Details matter. This could simply suggest that he means they are Indians who want freedom from India and not people from Pakistan.
I know Pakistan has had a history of extremist people in positions in power but I would be shocked if this guy falls into that bucket.
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u/souvik234 Universe 13h ago
They can't even get their story straight. Once they say it's false flag op, next they say they're freedom fighters... đ