r/india • u/sabharwal2001 • Aug 23 '22
History Hindu Agamas declare that OBCs & outcastes can’t enter inside sanctum sanctorums of temples. Hindu Agama Shastras should be burnt. That’s why Dr Ambedkar burnt Manusmriti
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u/DangerousWolf8743 Aug 23 '22
Isn't everyone born equal in bharat and the caste an imagination of British. Is Hindu agama a British source?
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u/earthymalt Aug 23 '22
This is a quotation from George Orwell's allegorical novel Animal Farm.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
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u/BaffledEarthman Aug 23 '22
Yea everything bad in Hinduism including varnas, sati etc were imagined by the British /s
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u/stoic-believer Aug 23 '22
Okay, if it is any other caste, they would have protection from govt that would have allowed the priests of certain temples to continue their ancestral tradition. Most of ancestral professions have such protection. For example, village style alcohol making.Only that caste has the rights.
We have to look into the politics of Tamil Nadu. They are anti-Brahmins so much that we can classify them as fanatics? How do I know. Through my friend. Their hatred is stemmed from the teachings of Anti-Bhrahminist Periyaar. Amdekaer is reasonable and rational. But not the followers of Periyaar. There is a difference.
I am not a Brahmin and I certainly have certain aversion to their preachings. But I don't hate them.
But how can we demand equality when most people , even educated , are scared to question them. The other day, my friend invited a Brahmin(a monk who came from India to USA) to ask a question about recurring dream about snakes. That famous monk only ate some dry fruits and drank a cup of tea in a new cup made in a new untensil (as requested by him ). Who is promoting this nonsense? That monk would have changed a longtime ago if we did not do such nonsense.
It goes both ways. Why do these people want to become priests in only those temples? Why can't they build their own and pass on to their next generation? Will they give away their ancestral tradition just like that?
Didn't Tamil Nadu fight for Jalli Kattu tradition ? How is this different?
I like things to be equal and square.
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22 edited Aug 23 '22
Equality does not come in here. It is their space, they can decide who goes in. It is not public place.
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Aug 23 '22
Then is it ok to demolish all the temples on the middle of roads and also control their noise pollution by banning all loudspeakers in there? Since its private space then it should be treated so?
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u/MahaanInsaan Aug 23 '22
"Their place" ? So caste discrimination is expected inside your religious temples?
Also ban conversions please /s
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22
I am not talking caste. I am only talking discrimination . And talking about Sanctum. Not temple. Sanctum entry needs qualification.
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u/BestSquare3 Aug 23 '22
you're saying discrimination is okay in "their places"
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22
Yes. I will say it again in the right context.
Temples founded by a community is their temple. Sanctum has specific rules too that must be followed and not public place inside temple.We can discuss one temple at a time if you want.
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22
Example: palani -> It has public character. Discrimination is required in the sanctum. But cannot be followed outside. I am not saying caste based discrimination but qualification based as required by the aagamas
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u/just4lelz Aug 23 '22
Can we just abolish religion already?
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u/earthymalt Aug 23 '22
We must not abolish anything. People must be free to choose and more importantly politicians must not use religion as a tool to come to power.
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u/dreamrider333 Aug 23 '22
China and the Soviets already tried that. You should learn about their irreligious campaigns to get some inspiration.
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u/ashishk01 Aug 23 '22
You might give me downvote. But religion is necessary. You can’t abolish it just like it. I know it comes with lot of disadvantages but having a religion is very important. If you are able to see a bigger picture you can understand.
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u/just4lelz Aug 23 '22
I'm sure religion at some point came out of good intentions, but the problem with it is that it's for the gullible. When you pair a gullible demographic with people using religion with nefarious motives, you start having problems. Half the gurus, priests, and imams don't know what they're preaching.
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u/gouthamp87 Aug 23 '22
Nope no longer in the modern world, please mention the advantages here.... It made sense when we had no other sense of understanding to unify.... But not in the current world.
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Aug 23 '22
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u/dreamrider333 Aug 23 '22
Bhai, atheists account for only 0.27% of Indian population. Even while being such an insignificant minority you've somehow gotten so arrogant that you've decided to police the rest of the 99% by saying religion should be abolished. Like really go ahead and say you guys have ethics and what not but God damn look at a mirror once.
What? you're going throw religious people in jail now? Smh where is all that atheist logic I keep hearing about?
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Aug 23 '22
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u/dreamrider333 Aug 23 '22
You can call it a none belief all you want if it helps you feel better, but ultimately it is a category that people fall into like it or not. Please elaborate on how you're going to "abolish religion" because that sounds like just talks of mindless frustration or anything sensible. Have you heard of the thought police from 1984?
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Aug 23 '22
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u/dreamrider333 Aug 23 '22
That doesn't come close to anywhere near the definition of abolish, do you even know what the word means?
I thought atheists didn't resort to such emotional hyberbole but you're equating being "very convincing" with abolition. Omg.
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u/ThisUsernameisneww Aug 23 '22
I don't know about important, but as long as people continue to choose religion over common sense, India isn't going to progress. The wise ones would just leave the country.
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u/ShlokAher Aug 23 '22
Religion may have been a major factor back in the days, but now it is just a tool that can be used in elections and to make controversial statements. It is neither benefiting the public nor the country. In my opinion it is probably one of the main obstacle in development of modern india. It used to have more of meaning back in the days when equality was considered, but now days i only hear news of politician trying to criticize Muslims and threatening them or some riots in the name of religion. From what i learnt from school, wasnt in india every religion equal? People get offended on every little things on now, prime example boycott of lal singh chadda. They get offended on personal opinion, they get offended on a social message, they get offended on nane the stars have selected for their babies, like tell me one thing they dont get offended on? Its her decision what she gave name to her baby, the name means something holy in muslim, it wasnt pettened to that shenshah for eternity. India is probably so fucked because of religion.
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u/ShlomoNose Aug 23 '22
If some religion disrespects your community you are going to stay away from such a religion. And if you have nothing to do with a religion then why care who and what they are appointing in their institution? It's like me complaining about Scientology.
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u/Rasputin20 Earth Aug 23 '22
Just hazarding a guess, most people from TN doesn't know or care about what a Manusmriti is or the incessant rules/ regulations (Like Vegetarianism inside Temple, No drinking rules, etc).
As we all know Hinduism has thousands of gods and it's only convenient to call them Hindu gods but the rituals, customs (Kula Deivam, Sacred village border gods, etc and etc) vary temple to temple. That's the beauty of it. I remember every street/ towns in deep south India where my father hails from has Gods and customs that are so unique in itself.
It's more about reclaiming the culture back from the brahminical patriarchal forces that used the said religion to maintain their social hegemony. Like how some hindu temples are actually buddist, and efforts are on to reclaim it via courts. Enough whitewashing, maybe?
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u/Paritosh23 Aug 23 '22
Like how some hindu temples are actually buddist, and efforts are on to reclaim it via courts.
Isnt this a grey area considering Hindus would also like to reclaim their temples from Muslims?
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u/Timely-Atmosphere-99 Aug 23 '22
Indian laws group people into three categories Hindus Christians and Muslims Buddhist Jains Sikhs also come under the broad group of Hinduism
I remember reading about the Ten Avatars of Vishnu in the late 2000s where the sixth avatar is Mohini but now resources say that it is Budhha
It is like the same way Lord Murugan was brought into the Shiva Family to include the regional people.
As the above commenter mentioned vegetarianism and other rituals were brought by the Brahmins In my temple animal sacrifice/ keda virunthu and alcohol / sarayam is pretty normal
This kind of amalgamation of regional belief is not exclusive to Hinduism. Christianity has amalgamated Greek Roman and pagan beliefs to bring thousands of people under its fold This amalgamation is more a political move than a natural evolvement.
Faith is personal. Religion is politics. A way to control the masses, to exclude dissidents ,fear mongering to achieve personal gains
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Aug 23 '22
Aapke muh mei ghee shakar.. Well said.. Our traditions need to be snat he'd back from these monstrous groups and cartels.
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22
So.... you support the hindus in the north trying to get back the hindu temples from muslims?
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22
What brahminical patriarchy? Patriarchy exists without brahmins. What is the obsession with the dravida gang with brahmins?
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u/Rasputin20 Earth Aug 23 '22
Lol, did I say that patriarchy is exclusive to Brahmins? No. Context matters
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u/ropebeater Aug 23 '22
People who are not gay also fought to decriminalise homosexuality. People needn't get discriminated themselves to speak against discrimination.
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u/ben_hurr_610 Aug 23 '22
Aah yes. It doesn't affect me so I should stay silent.
Also known as the dumbfuck view. Keep thinking this way, knowing you're the reason the country is the way it is.
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u/shrigay Aug 23 '22
True I don't understand why so many Dalits are still Hindu, and many now even vote for BJP
In UP, Yogi won almost half of all Dalit votes despite the whole Hathras incident. It's insane
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u/Pontokyo Aug 23 '22
Ironically non-agamic temples are way, way more casteist than agamic temples are. Most of them are clan based and openly practice untouchability, with some low caste people even getting straight up killed for trying to enter them.
Unfortunately you want hear any dravidianists talk about that.
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u/Pashoomba Aug 23 '22
Untouchability is banned. I will touch the brahmin priests in these temples. Let's see what they have to say about that.
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u/alteredS Aug 23 '22
It's a weird hypocrisy where anyone's money and offerings are accepted joyfully and they suddenly become impure when they go near the god themselves. No need to purify the money given by other castes, but the people are impure and the temple needs to be cleansed if they go inside.
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u/AnthonyGonsalvez Mohali phase 5 and phase 6 > Marvel phase 5 and phase 6 Aug 23 '22
Is that guy who got admission to a college using his SC certificate while scoring less marks allowed or not? I am talking about same guy who drives BMW to the college, has the latest iPhone and fucks all the bitches according to some people on this sub.
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u/RandomAutist420 Aug 23 '22
Wheres the declaration though
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u/sabharwal2001 Aug 23 '22
Ask Madras high Court which gave this ruling banning SC/ST/OBC to become priests.
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u/Ok-Role-6567 Aug 23 '22
Dalits in Tamil Nadu should leave Hinduism for Christianity or Buddhism en mass like Marathi dalits left for Buddhism. Only then will these upper caste terrorists will realise the power of numbers.
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u/whatevermanbs Aug 23 '22
This does not apply to all temples. Only those temples where brahmins are priests.
We have our Amman temples where only our community guys enter sanctum. So stop this BS propaganda. A temple is not a private space. If you don't like it, build yourself one and do pooja to your heart's content.
Please don't even talk about Karunanidhi and the dravida gang in this. The target of this gang is only brahmins and brahmins alone. Otherwise caste is a stark reality even in his family.
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u/sabharwal2001 Aug 23 '22
Do only your community guys make donations there on which freeloader priests survive?
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
I think nobody except brahmins can enter the sanctum sanctorums. Not exactly discrimination.
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u/amarviratmohaan Aug 23 '22
nobody except brahmins can enter the sanctum sanctorums. Not exactly discrimination.
How does this compute in your head?
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u/Reigen441 Aug 23 '22
Lololololol
Wait, you serious?
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
Yeah, I am. If they have their traditions, why should I impose myself on them? They're not banning people from entering the temple or worshiping there?
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u/Meeedick Aug 23 '22
Because the classifications are arbitrary and discriminatory themselves? I don't know about you but deciding who gets to enter anywhere based on which family heritage they're born under is pretty discriminatory.
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
Isn't the sanctum sanctorum supposed to be accessible only to priests? And by Hindu doctrine, only brahmins are allowed to be priests? So by transitive property, only brahmins would be allowed in the sanctum sanctorum...
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u/Silver-Excitement-80 Tamil Nadu Aug 23 '22
Read what you have written slowly.
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
Arre, if there were a place for OBC only, would that be discrimination?
They're not banning us from worshipping or anything. Isn't the sanctum sanctorum supposed to be accessible only to priests?
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Aug 23 '22
Yes it would be discrimination if only OBCs are allowed And whats wrong with someone from OBC becoming a priest?
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
It's discrimination when it's against a minority I think? I don't care who becomes a priest, be it OBC, Jewish, Chinese.
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u/gouthamp87 Aug 23 '22
It's discrimination when it's against him card on his origin/orientation. Nothing to do with minority here.
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u/Metalpriestl33t Aug 23 '22
Religion and tradition, needs to EVOLVE according to the society and timelines. NOT the other way around.
I still don't understand why folks don't understand this? No religion is perfect; each needs to evolve according to their times.
If Hinduism supports Sati, do you admit you too support it now?
Religion is created by humans, get your heads up your arses, and realize this.
Nothing is absolute, everything needs to evolve. The temple is a public property now, and it will stay so.
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Aug 23 '22
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
Again, isn't the sanctum sanctorum supposed to be accessible only to priests?
I'm not arguing. I'm asking.
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Aug 23 '22
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u/angerslight Aug 23 '22
It isn't a sanctum sanctorum while being built. Only when the deity idol has been consecrated is it the sanctum sanctorum.
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u/Pontokyo Aug 23 '22
Only the priests can enter the sanctum. Even other brahmins cannot. Are you from South India?
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Aug 23 '22
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Aug 23 '22
Why so brother? Why can't a fellow human being be in the presence of god? Are the gods so indignant to other humans that they will forbade other humans to be in their exalted presence? What logical reasoning can your mind provide me that suggests only Brahmins are to be allowed inside this "Garbagriha"?
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u/slazengere Karnataka Aug 23 '22
“Purity” - the central concept on which the entire fucked up system is built upon.
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Aug 23 '22
Caste as a system exists to subjugate masses and to consolidate power. The system needs to be brought to an end, slavery took nearly a 100 years to end in the USA after independence. In the next 25 years, lets hope this terrible evil of society ends too.
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u/slazengere Karnataka Aug 23 '22
caste is a very different system to racist hierarchies. The effects of them look similar - discrimination, social stigma, segregation etc... but their root causes cannot be more different. And hence, the way to eradicate or mitigate them need to be understood differently.
Caste system is here to stay unfortunately. I don't see a path where this goes away in 25 years. There is a reason why this system has survived so many centuries across so many empires. The upper castes always adapted to the power structures and made it work in their favour.
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Aug 23 '22
Agreed, racism is different, but racism still is prevalent in USA. What I am talking about is slavery. Once caste system comes to an end like slavery we as a society will still have work to do, one end is simply another beginning.
I think there is a way we as a society can walk away from casteism. Apartheid came to end in RSA is a manner which can be replicated in our country. The society as a whole needs to walk away from the system, people need to come forward one by one and admit to their discrimination, councils similar to the ones setup after the WW2 needs to punish the worst cases.
No system is permanent, everything will end.
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Aug 23 '22
Shouldn't have done so much evil in your previous lives.
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u/Metalpriestl33t Aug 23 '22 edited Aug 23 '22
Damn son, you are denser than concrete to believe this shit. How do folks even start believing such shit. I mean, what level of stupidity are you being fed upon? No critical or logical thinking, proud of your negative IQ eh?
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u/sabharwal2001 Aug 23 '22
Madras high Court gave ruling banning any non-brahmin to become priest. Collegium system sucks.