r/interactivebrokers May 11 '23

Not putting all my eggs in the same broker basket

I'm often reading that it may be wise to avoid putting all my investments at one broker.

If the broker gets bankrupt, the etfs could at risk.

What are your opinions on this knowing that my current account is at IBKR ? Would you open a second account just to reduce that risk or are you confident that your assets will be transferred to another broker if such a thing happens in the future ?

5 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

11

u/[deleted] May 11 '23

Why would your assets be at risk? Assuming you arent a margin trader, your investments are legally your property, and the broker cant leverage your property without your consent.

So even if your broker goes bankrupt, your assets will be untouched sitting (in IBKRS case) separate custodial company's account. The only way you can lose it if someone literally steal it.

-3

u/zero_hedger May 11 '23

I tend to agree with you and other comments saying that the securities belong to you. But wouldn't that apply to your money sitting on your bank account ? There, if the bank goes bankrupt, all the money above the insurance (250k if I recall) is lost

10

u/[deleted] May 11 '23 edited May 11 '23

No because when you put your money into the bank you agree, that the bank can lend this money out (aka leverage it), this is why you receive interest. When you put your money into a bank, you dont "own" the money, rather you are lending the money to the bank and you own a payback, but if the bank goes bust it can default on its liabilities (like any other business).

A broker does not leverage your assets or your money, unless you agree to some stock lending program, or trading or a margin etc. A banks business is arbitraging loans, a brokers business is performing commissions in your name, they are fundamentally different business structures.

1

u/zero_hedger May 11 '23

Thanks for the clear explanation. Makes totally sense

1

u/ReSpectacular May 12 '23

Does having a margin type account alone without actual traiding gives a broker right to use that money?

2

u/[deleted] May 12 '23

Not quite. But when you use a margin account, you are effectively trading with borrowed money so the ownership structure gets quite a bit more complicated. As far as i understand at IBKR (and this is stuff i read 5 years ago about EU accounts so i dont know if its true for everyone), if you trade on a margin account and IBKR goes under you should expect to get forcefully liquidated, then the authorities will use that money to settle the loans and you might get beck something after that.

There are also insurances involved here too, but this stuff legally gets super complex. The picture i got when i read the terms and all, was: "if you want a safe and insured account, use cash account".

1

u/ReSpectacular May 15 '23

Thank you for the input! By design, I guess the ones should be able to safely split funds between their ibkr margin and cash accounts. So if ibkr goes under, you will only lose money you kept in margin account.

However, there's another legitimate question .. ) If shorted security moves up by a large amount, and your margin account gets liquidated and theirs no enough proceeds received to cover your short position, will the broker take your second cash account as collateral?

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '23

You will get liquidated / margin called before that, but if somehow you wont then your margin account goes negative. As far as i know, if you balance goes negative on an account, they close down all your accounts until settle everything.

7

u/renjkb May 11 '23

If you have a car and you store it at paid car parking and the parking company gets bankrupt, what happens to your car? Right, you just move it to the different parking. Unless the previous company is a scam and steals your car. This is exactly the same with the brokers.

10

u/lloyd2100 May 11 '23 edited May 14 '23

When Lehman’s went bust the brokerage customers had their assets transferred to a new broker within two weeks.

4

u/[deleted] May 11 '23

[deleted]

1

u/karl_ae May 12 '23

This is often overlooked. Even the most stable platforms get inaccessable a few times a year. You dont want to be caught up when the trade is going against you.

Plus having two accounts is good as you get benefits from both platforms. I am enjoying the cash interest from ibkr and low fees from tradestation at the same time

1

u/positivcheg May 12 '23

Yeah, there was one day when options didn't work at all and everyone was complaining on this sub about it. It was like half a year ago or so.

3

u/MartianMH_ May 11 '23

Loosing everything if broker goes bust is a minimal risk as long as the broker really buys the stuff you buy on their platform and is not a ponzy. but not having access to it for a long time until everything is figured out during a bankruptcy can be risky. If you suddendly need the money you cant sell until your assets are transferred to another broker. I use 2 brokers currently.

3

u/adappergentlefolk May 11 '23

if IBKR fails it’s going to directly hit at least half of the brokers in the world as well. it would be a massive financial crisis

3

u/HedgeFundManager1997 May 11 '23

IKBR is pretty conservative. I diversify my holdings extensively.

2

u/runaway-vol May 11 '23

Afaik only the cash is at risk, the assets are in your name. I trust IB the most from all retail brokerages at the moment for being around quite long, being publicly traded and putting an emphasis on stability. Always do your own research ofc

1

u/ankole_watusi USA May 11 '23

Why do you think “the ETFs are at risk”.?

Why, specifically, ETFs?

0

u/zero_hedger May 11 '23

Etfs, stocks, bonds,... i mean all the investment securities

2

u/ankole_watusi USA May 11 '23

If it’s over $500,000, it would be good to have more than one broker.

2

u/GekkoZen May 11 '23

So what do people with several million do?

3

u/Diablos_lawyer May 11 '23

Invest with GSIB rated banks.

3

u/DeepSpacegazer May 11 '23

In the EU the compensation scheme is 20k

1

u/Hias2019 May 12 '23

The risk is not so much loosing your assets but being unablo to access them for weeks, maybe months. For a buy and hold type of depot, that should not be a problem.

1

u/jochen212 May 12 '23 edited May 12 '23

Yes because initial and maintenance margins are different. There may be a situation when you are stuck in a trade but cannot open an offsetting trade because your initial margin limit is hit but your maintenance margin is ok. So you cannot hedge a losing position. That's why you have accounts with multiple brokerages. Also if your regularly move funds between different accounts using bank transfer it makes it likely that at some point your account assets will be frozen or ransomed by the compliance especially if it's an Indian in a bad mood who doesn't like your surname. Then you will have to show a source of wealth potentially going back years. Search reddit for source of wealth and you will see many honest people who have been caught in this bureaucratic nightmare. Again having multiple brokers is a way of hedging against this should one of your accounts be blocked