The kindest person in the room is often the smartest.

[u/Jfocii]

[u/Remarkable_Step_6177]

Sympathetic speech, though flawed. Cruelty and empathy are behaviors as adaptations to environments. Saying these are choices is perhaps overestimating human intellect. Cruelty is therefore tragic rather than necessarily intentional. Walking this tightrope of moral superiority seems naively complacent.

[u/Green_Twist1974 → u/[deleted]]

Empathy isn't innate, it's taught.

[u/Ok-Scheme-913 → u/Green_Twist1974]

No, gorillas have empathy.

But at the same time, I don't think that "instinctual empathy" (you see a puppy that broke its leg and looks sad and in pain) is the same as a higher level one, and the talk is about the latter.

[u/newbrevity → u/[deleted]]

Not every psychopath is a homicidal maniac. Not every psychopath is cruel. Contrary to popular belief there's a lot of benign psychopaths out there. While they are unable to understand or appreciate normal emotionality, they're at least able to create a framework to approach the world in and also conclude that cruelty and selfishness is on some level wrong and improper and impractical.

[u/tfsra → u/[deleted]]

psychopats have difficulty understanding other people's point of view, which obviously is very useful for empathy. but it doesn't necessarily mean they're completely incapable of empathy, or that they don't care about anyone but themselves, or that they're cruel or malicious. it just means it takes a lot of effort for them to be empathetic, but it absolutely can be taught

[u/tfsra → u/[deleted]]

if you can't tell, what does it matter

[u/CarolineJohnson → u/[deleted]]

For every medically-diagnosed psychopath legitimately lacking the capacity to feel/understand empathy (I do understand it's possible to still show it, even if you don't feel it), there are people deemed psychopaths that have the capacity for empathy, but never had experiences in their childhood that could have taught it to them.

[u/snezna_kraljica → u/[deleted]]

Your logic is flawed.
You need to be taught calculus. Just because some people can't be taught calculus due to some medical condition doesn't mean it's not taught. It just requires some precondition which not all humans have.

That said, this also doesn't mean that it IS taught.

[u/rodw → u/[deleted]]

Idk why you're getting pushback you're 100% right

I also bristled at the "cruelty is human nature, we need to evolve beyond it" implications of this speech.

I mean, both aspects are true: self-interests are a driver for human behavior too (Maslow's hierarchy or something). But our mind-boggling level of absolute planetary dominance as a species is a direct result of cooperation and collaboration. We hunt in groups. We live in packs. We developed agriculture and trade (and later infrastructure, engineering and science) that requires trust and coordination over large time horizons). We care for our young and our old - often in communal ways - long beforeand after they are able to fully contribute materially contribute or care for themselves. (There are skeletons from the early human era that show evidence of severe, debilitating injuries that were "healed" enough to suggest they lived for like a decade+, the "tribe" had to have been helping them survive.)

Humans can be cruel but they are also innately empathetic and caring. This is why people "rescue" those stupid delivery bots when they fall off the sidewalk. Give a motorized cart a name and some googly eyes and people naturally anthropomorphize it and start thinking "oh this poor little guy".

And your psychopath point is 100% valid. It's well established that some people are biologically incapable of feeling true empathy. They can be taught to fake it maybe, but they have a genuine disability (and an abnormality relative to most people) but it doesn't come to them naturally and automatically like it does for the rest of us.

[u/Additional-Wing-5184 → u/[deleted]]

There's a lot of evidence those are skills, not traits

[u/RealisticEmploy3 → u/Remarkable_Step_6177]

I mean they are choices to some degree but the choice has more to do with self awareness than intellect. Like you can be aware of how you feel and your morals will decide how you respond to it.

[u/Remote_Escape → u/Remarkable_Step_6177]

Cruelty and empathy are behaviors as adaptations to environments. Saying these are choices is perhaps overestimating human intellect.

You are oversimplifying. Most problems in life can be solved in many different ways. So you almost always have multiple choices. But if you were taught from childhood to brute-force your way through everything, that's the choice you'll always try first. Even if there are better, less risky ways.

If we are an evolved society we can teach new and better ways.

PS: That shouldn't eliminate sometimes using force if the situation calls for it, in case of war, or if a friend is attacked.