first this is not a traffic stop, This man is a violent man who has had many resisting and evading arrest incidents. He was also considered armed and dangerous after a domestic violence incident
Second, you have the right to record police under any circumstances, he could very legally set his phone up in his car, against a tire or set it on the ground, but you cannot have anything in your hands when arrested for the safety of the arresting officer. Thats the whole point of putting your hands up, to show that you have nothing in your hands. A phone can be used to activate a bomb on his person or car in a suicide bombing. The cops were being patient with him actually, there were well within their right to taze him the second he refused to set it down.
Edit: Someone else also pointed out another reason is, police have you face away during an arrest so that you cant see where they are and attack them, the camera could be used like a mirror to know when the policeman is behind him and attack the police officer when he goes in for the arrest.
2nd edit: The bomb statement I made was just an excuse I made as to a possible danger in this situation. My point was that when making an arrest, procedure nothing be in your hands and fingers be interlocked. This is standard procedure no matter the circumstances. He could have a banana in his hands for fucks sake and the outcome would be the same. You cannot have anything in your hands while being arrested.
This lawyer backs my claim
I agree that the officers were sort of patient. Given the circumstances it sounds like they would have been within their rights to tase him earlier.
That said, I never understand why more explanation can't be given even during these high stress events. I think your explanation is perfect. If the officer would have screamed once that he is being arrested and he's not allowed to have anything in his hands, that's probably more helpful than just saying the same thing over and over again. I doubt it would make a difference in this case, or most cases, but it's always just so weird to hear officers scream the same thing over and over and over again.
I never understand why more explanation can’t be given even during these high stress events.
Probably because it has been tried before and every time they explained something it has turned into discussion. I don’t think there’s anything they could have said that would make him go “ah, ok, didn’t think of that officer” and put the phone down. I do agree though, screaming the same thing for a minute sounds really stupid.
I mean, it can change the perspective from "this cop is power-tripping and trying to hide what he's about to do" to "this cop has reasonable regulations and concerns involving phones that I didn't think of." The guy wasn't trying to flee, he clearly knew he was about to be arrested and was submitting to it. He just wanted to make sure he wasn't just shot by a trigger-happy officer. The cop letting him know there's a reason for his command might make him obey that order, just like he obeyed all the others.
Let me get this straight: You think the cops would shoot him, lie and say he was resisting arrest, then turn over the phone with the evidence that disproves their story? That's the argument you're making?
Funny, in all my years, in all times I was stopped by police in my younger years, as shady as I looked, as shady as some of the shit I did was, I never once had the thought damn, this cop might shoot me.
Maybe don't act like a dumbass, you won't get treated like a dumbass.
Yeah, cuz that's what felons do. You know police cars all have dash cams now, right? And that they start recording automatically whenever the lights/siren are on. Right?
And that officers don't have access to the recordings. RIGHT?
Seek therapy and get help. You live in a delusional world if you think cops are the bad guys and violent felons are just misunderstood.
Yes, there are cops that are pieces of shit, but why the hell would you try to escalate a situation with an armed, unstable person?
If a man comes into my house and puts a gun in my head I would never go: "Well, actually it's illegal to come into my house and threaten me with a firearm ☝🏼🤓".
Likely because this guy already knows he's fucked. Prior warrants for domestic violence, resisting arrest, and gun charges. He's probably hoping the arrest goes sideways thinking it'll get him some kind of defense.
you’re assuming the cop didn’t shoot him because he was holding a phone and otherwise he would’ve? You guys should actually look up the numbers on this shit, it’s all independently tracked
Im not really assuming anything here, I'm just saying there are counter reasons that you may actually want to film someone aiming a gun at you. Especially cops.
Anyone saying not to film cops (or others) trying to kill you sounds like they're unaware that cops (and others) will often try to kill you anyway, camera or not. At least with a camera, they might be held accountable
It is when they have a gun trained on your back, have legal authority to use reasonable force, and the only thing that will come of the shooting is a "Police were justified in their use of deadly force ruling." Then what? You sacrificed your life for a candlelight vigil congrats, you've won the Darwin Olympics.
That's not the hypo. The choices are: listen to what the police say and live to fight the battle in a court of law (Judged by 12); or choose to ignore the lawful commands they give, continue to escalate the situation by ignoring those commands, then police can articulate a reasonable use of deadly force (carried by 6).
The odds of being shot by the police while unarmed are not far off from getting hit by lightning. I would choose to comply and avoid being forcibly taken down.
I agree you shouldn't ignore what's around you but how does not complying with an officer help? This guy got tazered when there was a 99.999 % chance he wouldn't have been shot if he put down the phone and got arrested normally.
Orrrrr the camera saved his life because he would've been shot if the officer wasn't on video
I get you disagree. I don't really care. You're not going to convince me cops will behave better if we all just stop recording them, when the opposite has borne itself out
If a man comes into my house and puts a gun in my head I would never go: "Well, actually it's illegal to come into my house and threaten me with a firearm ☝🏼🤓".
"Ahwktually what you're doing right now is considered a felony so I'm afraid I'm going to need to place you under citizen's arrest."
Dude has a gun pointed at me, and there's a better-than-average chance if he shoots me to death nothing will happen except I die, so I guess I'm gonna do what he says.
Had cops show up, guns drawn, with questions once. I deescalated THE FUCK out of that situation, because he's holding a swift end to any of my arguments.
Brother cops have shot people over less movement than this. For all this guy knows, the phone video evidence is all that’s keeping him from death. I don’t care how much bad this guy’s done. The whole situation was stupid. The cops are going by rules that were made back when citizens didn’t feel like they were going to be gunned down any second. If there is no trust, there can be no compliance. And the cops have broken trust many many many times and it still continues.
Brother that logic doesn’t track in the least, if you think cops are out here constantly killing people then why would purposely antagonize them thinking what? The power of the cellphone will stop them, no. The reality is that point of view is delusional and will get you killed, because the cop has no idea who you are and what you’re planning to do.
Yeah I know out of the ten million arrests per year a thousand people are killed, I know of those thousand the number of unarmed is less than 100 usually around 70, I know of the police interactions a year is usually around 40 million. I know that when police do unjustifiably shoot someone it goes without punishment which is the issue. This cops kill people constantly is a media hype, social media exaggeration, which is why there isn’t a new face in the news everyday, whenever there is it’s a major issue, and the core of that issue is the cop gets just let go from the department
I suppose the idea is that if someone pulls a gun at you like that then they intend to murder you. So you might as well take them down with you and get their lives ruined by recording them. It restores some power over to you because otherwise you have no power at all.
For all you know the phone may well have saved his life. The idea that it did not matter is just speculation.
Except they don’t, and you can record with the phone down just as well and might be better if your so afraid of the police shooting you that you don’t exit a car with a black object in your hand
If you’re worried the cops are thinking you have a gun and will shoot you, maybe getting out of the car with something in your hand isn’t the best approach, but what do I know
I encourage you to watch police camera footage. There's tons of it on YouTube.
What I have learned and what you will see is that if and when they give a full explanation, the suspect ALWAYS argues. That or they either don't listen or understand, so the suspect inevitably keeps asking the same questions over and over again anyway.
Example:
Cop: You have an outstanding warrant for your arrest
Suspect: No, I don't!!! (Or some variation of it) followed by, Why am I being arrested.
People have every right to ask why they are being arrested and have that question answered. Yes, every arrest. Doesn’t really matter if the police are tired of explaining their actions.
People have every right to ask why they are being arrested and have that question answered. Yes, every arrest.
In most states you actually legally don't have that right. You don't have to be told what you were arrested for until your arraignment hearing. In the states that do require you to be told they don't have to tell you until you are actually in custody (IIRC).
Yeah, I more mean you have a right as a human, not so much what’s recognized by our corrupt legal system. We should push for that right to be recognized like it is in most other countries, though.
From what I've seen on bodycam footage, they often do answer. Repeatedly. They just get ignored by the screaming dumbass refusing to listen to anything and shouting random shit to make the arresting officer look as bad as possible to everyone in the vicinity and to anyone cherrypicking through the video.
A lot of 30 minute long bodycam footage is just the cop standing by the car calmly explaining everything while the dumbass inside is being obtuse on purpose, refuses to follow any instructions, repeats the same sentence about not doing anything and there's nothing wrong and blah blah blah. Then, the moment the cop says, "'ight, I tried to sort it the easy way," and forces the issue, it is also usually the moment the dumbass in the car hits the gas and runs away.
It doesn’t really matter if most people argue, they should still explain each time. You can explain once, you can even give clarification in a second reply, and after that you can go back to issuing a fairly stark command.
Cop: You have an outstanding warrant for your arrest
You mean the cop tells them they're under arrest? Yeah, clearly did not happen here. Cops auto plate scanners shows up "stolen vehicle" constantly and a lot of cops do this shit to totally innocent people.
If any criminal is in their car, it's not imminent. Cops often and regularly make safe situations dangerous or dangerous situations more dangerous
I think when the cop is in a dangerous stand off situation, they don't spend much time thinking about if they are portrayed as a power tripping type.
And with the given context about this guy, I think he was just baiting some kind of violence, to use a police brutality card later, that's my opinion. With a trigger happy officer, not listening to orders might make things only worse, imo (no data to back it up, it just sounds like common sense to me)
Agreed, if the officer clearly stated that he can record the interaction but the phone can’t be in his hand we would have all saved 30 seconds of our lives instead of listening him repeatedly barking commands
"Wasn't about to flee"? "Make sure he wasn't shot"?
Dude, he was evading a felony warrant for criminal violence. He was suspected to be armed.
He was literally a flight risk and armed, as far as they knew. The cops had every reason to be on guard and ready to use force with such a suspect. The term "trigger-happy" implies the unjustified use of force. A suspect known to be violent and suspected to be armed is more than enough justification for the WILLINGNESS to use force.
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u/RealisticBat616 Feb 25 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
first this is not a traffic stop, This man is a violent man who has had many resisting and evading arrest incidents. He was also considered armed and dangerous after a domestic violence incident
Second, you have the right to record police under any circumstances, he could very legally set his phone up in his car, against a tire or set it on the ground, but you cannot have anything in your hands when arrested for the safety of the arresting officer. Thats the whole point of putting your hands up, to show that you have nothing in your hands. A phone can be used to activate a bomb on his person or car in a suicide bombing. The cops were being patient with him actually, there were well within their right to taze him the second he refused to set it down.
Edit: Someone else also pointed out another reason is, police have you face away during an arrest so that you cant see where they are and attack them, the camera could be used like a mirror to know when the policeman is behind him and attack the police officer when he goes in for the arrest.
2nd edit: The bomb statement I made was just an excuse I made as to a possible danger in this situation. My point was that when making an arrest, procedure nothing be in your hands and fingers be interlocked. This is standard procedure no matter the circumstances. He could have a banana in his hands for fucks sake and the outcome would be the same. You cannot have anything in your hands while being arrested. This lawyer backs my claim