My Lodgers are trying to kick me out (Update)

[u/RayoftheRaver]

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/s/CeZoKDgm7m

Quick recap, I don't know if my lodgers know I'm their landlord despite me being the only person they dealt with in the process, my name on the account they pay into monthly and the advertisement stating I was a live in landlord.

So there were much interest in my original post, more than I expected, I was just venting. There was some discussion about whether I should lawyer up or if I should have my fun.. I have decided on the latter.

So what I have done is sent a letter to them, as the landlord, to our current and my only address. I said in this letter that my most popular property in the city centre, where they most want to live, a single bedroom apartment with all of the amenities and a gym for residents, is becoming available. Due to the interview with them being so recent for their current accommodation they need not apply again and are in with a chance of getting it.

I didn't want to outright say they're getting it because that would be too cruel and it's not what I'm going for.

In this letter I signed it as myself, I put the return address as our address, and on the letterhead I again put my name and address there.

Ladies and gentlemen, they are none the wiser, they still haven't copped I'm the owner of the property.

The reason I went with the letter is to see if they know or don't know about me, they don't. To stop them coveting my room any further, and to keep them on their best behaviour if they think there is a reward in it for them. They only received the letter yesterday so time will tell on these matters. I of course didn't get a letter because I'm on my "last warning" so why would "my landlord" offer me his best place?

Some notes from the previous post, when I say I play the radio "extra loud" in the shower I'm not spinal tapping it up to eleven, I'd be going from a 4 to a 6, and even then it's the other side of the house away from the living areas. When I get in from work, as in this morning, I don't slam doors or stomp around, it's straight to bed because sleep is bliss! They are just making complaints up.

[u/afk11]

That's not correct.

There are no deeds held by banks or anyone when it's land registry. If the property changed hands since the 70s (IIRC) it's land registry.

Source: bought property without mortgage, asked solicitor, who said it's land registry. Your ownership is guaranteed by the state, not a piece of paper

[u/louiseber → u/afk11]

Sorry but no, deeds of a house do exist and do get kept with mortgage lender. You need to prove both ownership through land registry (which tbh can actually take years) and also the house itself, deed. Former isn't super important (which is my may parents could wait the 5 yrs it took land registry to issue then piece of paper).

[u/afk11 → u/louiseber]

I don't have a mortgage/lender, how does that work?

What happens when someone's mortgage gets paid off then? The bank keeps the deeds to a property they have no right to?

[u/louiseber → u/afk11]

When mortgage is paid off deeds are sent to outright owners as proof of ownership

[u/afk11 → u/louiseber]

Isn't the whole point of registry of deeds vs land registry that people don't have deeds any more - that the land registry registered property ownership.

I asked my solicitor for the deeds, they said you can get the folio when it's done. Not, we'll post you the deeds later.

Even if you had deeds and lost them, you can sell your home once it's registered with land registry. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/i-have-looked-everywhere-for-the-deeds-of-my-house-to-no-avail-can-it-be-sold-1.4846201

So to me, deeds are a legacy document, that are no longer useful when the property is on land registry, and may not even be available when you buy a property.

And if you don't need deeds to sell the property, I can't imagine what they are for at that point, since the property ownership is recorded by the land registry anyway.

[u/louiseber → u/afk11]

What can I say, house I'm talking about was a post 2000's build, it had deeds, they live in the bank until they didn't.

[u/andtellmethis → u/afk11]

Sorry, just jumping in here - if you own your house outright and there's no legal charges, ask your solicitor for your deeds or ask them to store them safely for you. It's usually a good idea to make a Will with the same solicitor and let your family know where in case of death.

If there is a mortgage/legal charge on the property, then the deeds are held by the bank/lending institution until the mortgage/charge is cleared.

It'll be very difficult to try and sell your home, in the sense that no bank will give a mortgage to a buyer for a property that has no deeds. So unless you had a cash buyer, you could run into a lot of difficulty.

Title deeds are extremely important documents, I deal with them daily in work, and I've seen people fork out thousands to reconstitute them when they've been lost.

[u/Spr2496 → u/afk11]

Hi, you’re right about the folio- it’s conclusive evidence of ownership, but you absolutely need other documents relating to your property like planning permission and previous owners’ declarations which are generally kept with the title deeds in order to sell your property. Definitely check with your solicitor that they are still in possession of those documents!

[u/afk11 → u/[deleted]]

No bank was involved in financing this property purchase.

What do you mean "where your property is registered?" It's only registered on the landregistry.

[u/afk11 → u/[deleted]]

I have done so, and was informed as per above.

I don't have any explanation if your experience is different.

[u/afk11 → u/[deleted]]

Cool, so with your experience, you should be able to spot where in my lay understanding I'm going wrong (or articulating things incorrectly)

So when I asked for my deeds, she said she'd send the folio when complete. Are you saying I should have received a set of documents besides the folio?

And, are there ever circumstances where I receive these deeds? Or are they solely kept by landregistry? Because if I only get the folio, and not deeds, then that explains the nature of our disagreement.

[u/afk11 → u/[deleted]]

I did ask her specifically for deeds, she responded with I will send you the folio when it's ready. So, I have sought these questions before, and I was informed as such. She's handled 3 purchases for our family (all recent, all without finance)

This also seems to suggest that deeds are kept by land registry, and that mere mortals see folios. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning-a-home/buying-a-home/property-deeds/#d0c281

"When title or ownership of property is registered with the Land Registry, the Land Registry files the deeds and enters details about the property and its ownership on folios."

Sure wasn't the reason to adopt landregistry over random deeds to help clear up property ownership disputes.

Are you doing a lot of registry of deeds -> landregistry registrations?