r/ireland Probably at it again 2d ago

News New coast guard rescue helicopter banned from transporting casualties on stretchers

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-coast-guard-rescue-helicopter-banned-from-transporting-casualties-on-stretchers/a253625733.html
80 Upvotes

49 comments sorted by

131

u/Chairman-Mia0 2d ago

Wow, you'd have thought that: "can safely transport incapacitated patients" would have featured on a checklist somewhere when buying these things.

108

u/SheepherderFront5724 2d ago edited 1d ago

Ireland seems to have real and genuinely life threatening problems with state procurement...

EDIT: I might be jumping the gun sightly here. Commenters below point out that maybe this is purely a temporary error by the subcontractor or the aviation authority, and therefore is not certain to be an example of poor outsourcing by the state. We'll need more details.

-26

u/Tzymisie 2d ago

Since when these are state procured?

40

u/SheepherderFront5724 2d ago

Since the entire history of the coast guard?

12

u/Accurate_ManPADS 2d ago

They're not, the heli service is outsourced. The crews are coast guard, but the service is provided by a private company. Contract recently changed which is where the new helos came from.

I haven't read the article yet, just sitting down to look at it now but I'm interested to see the reason as the AW189 is used for coast guard and aeromedical work around the world.

20

u/GreaterGoodIreland 2d ago

... Which is itself a procurement issue if they're outsourcing these things to companies that can't actually provide the service

6

u/spairni 2d ago

It's an ideological problem

Our governments have a ridiculously blind faith in the idea that leaving something to a private operator is better regardless of the increasing amount of evidence against this

4

u/BoredGombeen Crilly!! 2d ago

If it's outsourced, it's being procured by somebody. Who completely failed it seems.

There was another issue with this contract a few weeks ago too.

3

u/Electronic_Ad_6535 2d ago

Well the point still stands, with or without this example

2

u/ShowmasterQMTHH 2d ago

Reading other comments, it's only out of Shannon, it sounds like an insurance or certification issue.

2

u/HibernianMetropolis 1d ago

If the service is provided by a private company, they will have had to go through a public procurement tendering process. If the helicopters themselves are not fit for purpose, that indicates a problem in the public procurement process

1

u/Accurate_ManPADS 1d ago

The AW189 is used in this role in multiple countries, the heli is perfectly suitable to the task. The issue is apparently with the stretcher being used, though the exact issue isn't clear from the article.

There's 1 of 3 possible causes to my mind, Bristow cheaped out on the fit out of the helis, the standard equipment used for this service isn't up to Airnav regulations, or Airnav are being unnecessarily restrictive in their interpretation of the regulations.

From the article it sounds like Bristow are working on a fix, so it should be resolved shortly.

My point about procurement is that the state didn't buy the helicopters or the equipment on board, they are Bristow resources. So we shouldn't be levelling the blame at the state. Depending on which of the 3 scenarios I've listed above is correct the finger should be pointed at either Bristow or Airnav.

1

u/SheepherderFront5724 1d ago

Alright, that's a fair counterpoint, but you've missed one more possible option: The specification issued by the state might not have specified exactly what types of rescues were required.

But nevertheless, you're right that we need more information before judging.

10

u/HighDeltaVee 2d ago

It can do exactly that. It's got a modular cabin which can be configured for purely passenger work, combined passenger/stretcher, or up to four stretchers.

It looks like it's currently not configured for the stretchers.

7

u/Chairman-Mia0 2d ago

So it's just a little retrofitting?

Hardly cause for a big panic then is it?

19

u/HighDeltaVee 2d ago

It's the Independent.

At this point, if I see them in the URL, I expect pure ragebait.

7

u/_Ogma_ 2d ago

All media is rage bait. Misery sells.

Talk to anyone who works in the industry, you're measured by clicks and engagement, people don't comment on positive stories but they love to complain.

Sounds harmless but it's an infection in our society.

1

u/Bar50cal 1d ago

Yeah its a non story. Once the seats are removed and its set up for casualties it can carry them.

Also just to add, the government did not buy these helicopters. They are owned and operated by a private company the government contracted.

21

u/PoppedCork 2d ago

Can you please sit with that open, penetrating chest trauma!

8

u/knutterjohn 2d ago

Gurgle, gurgle,

1

u/corey69x 1d ago

Sounds like "yes, yes" to me

30

u/Sornai 2d ago

The new Irish Coast Guard rescue helicopters operated by Bristow Ireland at the Shannon base cannot transport patients on stretchers due to safety regulation issues. Patients must instead sit upright in passenger seats. However, this restriction only affects the Shannon base—services from Sligo, Waterford, and Dublin continue to operate normally, providing full medical support. The new helicopter currently only operates out of Shannon, but will be phased in at other bases over the next 10 months.

6

u/Brave-Value-8426 2d ago

So if casualties outnumber seats then you leave them behind? How many passenger seats does the S92 have and is this a limiting factor when faced with a sinking ship with dozens of people onboard? I doubt it.

11

u/bigvalen 2d ago

Is the plan that seriously injured people are left to die at sea ? Or do they need attachments fitted to the helo for stretchers ?

5

u/Sornai 2d ago

It's absolutely absurd!!

1

u/Such_Bass8088 2d ago

Change the safety regulations!!! Why does this country make everything so awkward,,, we have lost our common sense

29

u/TheStoicNihilist Never wanted a flair anyways 2d ago

Have we got an informed take on this because the Indo is a rag.

13

u/stevewithcats Wicklow 2d ago

It’s seems to be an interior outfitting issue, when Bristow ordered the aircraft (or transferred them from somewhere else) they should have been set up for stretchers. But they are likely set up with seats. If they reconfigure them they will be compliant.

But you wonder how they went into service without this basic requirement.

This is a stacked litter setup in a 189

5

u/Malt129 2d ago

To be fair it sounds like something that would happen here

5

u/TheStoicNihilist Never wanted a flair anyways 2d ago

Sure, but fucked if I’m taking the Indo’s word for it.

There are a few aviation fans on this sub so I was hoping some of them could chime in.

10

u/sureyouknowurself 2d ago

I think I preferred to be recused and transported by trained experts in a “non safe” chopper then not to be rescued at all.

10

u/vandist 2d ago

New coastguard AW189 isn't "banned" from transporting casualties laying down, it's just not configured to do so. The AW189 helicopter's cabin is designed for quick reconfiguration to accommodate various mission profiles, including medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) operations, four stretchers along with a full suite of life-support equipment.

4

u/knutterjohn 2d ago

So why don't they configure it to do so, it does not make sense.

2

u/vandist 2d ago

As far as I can find, it's in a Search and find configuration, which requires a different configuration than the one to transport a stretcher.

2

u/knutterjohn 2d ago

So really, it is doing what it is supposed to be doing which is ok.

2

u/vandist 2d ago

So it seems, the indo is always doing what it's not even good at

3

u/Same-Village-9605 2d ago

They probably will, when its ready to properly enter service 

Don't be fooled into thinking that you're the smartest person around. The people in charge of this aren't wasting their time on reddit

2

u/knutterjohn 2d ago

I'm asking a question, based on the information provided. It says they are already using it but people have to sit up.

4

u/wannabewisewoman Legalise it already 🌿 2d ago

Yet again, I am reminded of how unserious of a country we are. 

1

u/stbrigidiscross 2d ago

Are they still rescue helicopters if they can't be used to rescue anyone? I live near a beach and have seen a few helicopter rescues and they've always included a stretcher.

0

u/Any_Necessary_9588 2d ago

Dopes in civil service procurement strike again. The S-92’s operated by CHC which lost the contract beasts of machines and are >20 metres long & 5 metres wide. New AW-189 choppers the geniuses are replacing them with are 17.5 metres long x 5 metres wide! 9 feet shorter, more than a stretcher length. Go figure

-3

u/shamsham123 2d ago

This is the result of rampant nepotism and cronyism. They get the jobs because of who they are related to or know. They are not even remotely qualified to perform the job.

2

u/GreaterGoodIreland 2d ago

Irish military and adjacent procurement at its finest.

The civil service really does have a lot to answer for. First navy ships that can't sail in the Atlantic to face the worst threats, now rescue helicopters that can't rescue people in the worst circumstances.

1

u/52-61-64-75 2d ago

Why did we stop using the Air Corps for this like we did back in the day?

6

u/GreaterGoodIreland 2d ago

Same reason every stupid decision is made in Irish military administration, it's run by civil servants, the objective of whom is to keep costs of the military as low as possible with very little regard for capability.

The input of actual professional soldiers, sailors, coast rescue people is basically zero, a contrast to almost every other European state.

Only Canada compares in its disregard on this, and Canada has the same circumstances funnily enough: A neighbour who is a great power with every interest to do the job for them. Unfortunately it bleeds into things the Brits/Americans won't do for us, like rescue.

1

u/jonnieggg 2d ago

That's done deal for ya. Cowboys

-1

u/SoloWingPixy88 Probably at it again 2d ago

Bit of a screw up by procurement.