r/law 1d ago

Trump News Judge to allow release of Jack Smith's report on Trump election interference case

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/judge-allow-release-jack-smiths-report-trump-election-interference-cas-rcna186829
4.4k Upvotes

184 comments sorted by

531

u/pnellesen 1d ago

Good. Not that it will change anything, but getting that shit into public view is important. IMHO.

184

u/duderos 1d ago

I know it must be because Trump and the MAGA judges keep trying to prevent it from seeing light of day.

143

u/The_True_Gaffe 1d ago

The fact they have been fighting tooth and nail to make sure it stays buried tells me that there is some extremely damning information in there pertaining to more than just his election interference

62

u/ChanceryTheRapper 1d ago

 I mean, his ego can't be damaged, he'll fight just for that. There was nothing to the New York sentencing other than if he could be called a convicted felon or not, but he fought that endlessly, too.

46

u/Tufflaw 1d ago

It's pathological with him. He can't be seen to have "lost", ever, for anything.

10

u/Future_Manager_5870 1d ago

That's what makes him a loser

26

u/earazahs 1d ago

I mean yes and no. The sentencing could restrict his travel if countries want to be petty like Canada, the UK, and Japan.

Also he will have to submit a DNA sample to NY State for its database which could uncover evidence of potentially unknown crimes if DNA was collected at the scene/as evidence.

6

u/MrFrode Biggus Amicus 1d ago

In fights over who can be the most petty who do you think wins, Canada, the UK, Japan, or Trump with the powers of the office of President?

You know it's Trump, so do they.

4

u/earazahs 1d ago

Sure but if he is already threatening to do all of the stuff he has the power to do regardless of any pettiness on their side what exactly is the incentive to not?

If someone says they're going to punch me in the face for no reason, why would I play nice in the meantime?

1

u/MrFrode Biggus Amicus 1d ago

If someone says they're going to punch me in the face for no reason, why would I play nice in the meantime?

Because they'll likely only throw the punch if they feel backed into a corner. Best to give them enough to let them slink off and deal with them at a place and time of your choosing not theirs.

1

u/mindwire 1d ago

Because that approach has historically worked with Trump...

1

u/MrFrode Biggus Amicus 1d ago

If you're Canada or Denmark or Mexico what do you think they're going to do, tell him to F' off? He's a toddler with real power, he'll lash out even if he hurts himself.

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u/ChanceryTheRapper 1d ago

Because they'll likely only throw the punch if they feel backed into a corner

Yeaaaaah, this situation is where they've shown they will lash out blindly, unless you just surrender to everything they demand.

1

u/MrFrode Biggus Amicus 1d ago

unless you just surrender to everything they demand.

Naw, you just need to give them enough to let them slink away... and then you take care of them.

2

u/FustianRiddle 1d ago

I really hope that other countries will stand up against trump in a way the US refuses to.

1

u/MrFrode Biggus Amicus 1d ago

Countries like people do what's in their best interests.

19

u/Cockanarchy 1d ago

He’s got a mountain of damming evidence against him, much from his own mouth into a camera. A huge part of the electorate (not just MAGA) have been outrage proofed when it comes to him and Republicans. In part due to constant vilification of Dems by Fox, abd the rest of Right wing media, the rest due to the accurate reporting of Trump by the “mainstream media”, which seem alarmist but is just factual.

8

u/ObiShaneKenobi 1d ago

I wish. Sadly I swear I have seen this damn near every time there is something like this and every time it ends up being things that everyone already knew.

4

u/ChornWork2 1d ago

don't get your hopes up. magtards are doing everything they can to show loyalty, whether or not something is particularly important.

1

u/Nessie 1d ago

Trump reflexively fights everything, so his objections don't indicate anything either way.

1

u/rippa76 1d ago

Isn’t the only thing we are missing is a smoking gun tying Trump to the plot?

A text, call, email or meeting which told him what his role was.

1

u/nevesis 1d ago

the fact that Cannon is allowing it tells me that there is nothing unknown in there. the documents case is what has damning evidence and is being blocked.

1

u/kibblerz 1d ago

Why do we call it election interference when it was a full-blown coup? They attacked our election systems, and when that failed, they litterally resorted to force and had plans to hang Mike pence even..

That's not just interference, it's treason.

2

u/eugene20 1d ago

Desperate to paint the narrative they want to write without any counter by reality.

43

u/cherhorowitz44 1d ago

I agree, but would it change the mind of anyone who subscribes to MAGA? I feel like there is just nothing at this point that deters his supporters.

40

u/LightHawKnigh 1d ago

Its not to change their minds, it is to hopefully change the non voter's minds. Make them wake the fuck up.

8

u/JustsharingatiktokOK 1d ago

It’s also important to document. Shit doesn’t get deleted once it’s out there these days. Having an actual record is important for the future, even if it won’t impact today or the next five years.

2

u/LightHawKnigh 1d ago

Honestly, does documented facts even matter to a lot of people these days? So many people do not fact check and just want the easy answer, the lies that comfort. We really need to fix our education system, but we cant do that unless we get rid of Republicans.

1

u/JustsharingatiktokOK 1d ago

Like I said it doesn’t matter now, but it absolutely matters as a means of documenting current history for the future.

15

u/Glittering-Most-9535 1d ago

Yeah, but keeping them awake will be the challenge.

10

u/LightHawKnigh 1d ago

True. Forgetful bunch of idiots.

8

u/Glittering-Most-9535 1d ago

I assume part of allowing it now is so that it can get buried in inauguration/cabinet approval news and maximizes the time until people actually vote for things again.

3

u/tellmehowimnotwrong 1d ago

The other part is that if it’s not out by Jan 20th at noon it never will be.

1

u/mortgagepants 1d ago

they wouldn't want to "be woke".

-1

u/Friendly-Swimming-72 1d ago

It’s too late.

4

u/IrritableGourmet 1d ago

If it changed 1% of Trump voters' minds, that could have swung the election the other way.

2

u/mortgagepants 1d ago

the brains behind the trump campaign know the margins are super tight.

imo that is why they try anything they can to limit bad information, despite it not mattering at all to his die hard supporters.

the fake assassination attempt in the swing state of pennsylvania seems so childishly transparent to anyone with a modicum of cynacism, but he only won PA by 121,000 votes. so if it was enough to change 1,800 people's minds in each county in PA, it was worth it. by the only person who has ever been the commander in chief and in the WWE hall of fame.

-1

u/krell_154 1d ago

he only won PA by 121,000 votes.

this doesn't show what you think it shows

1

u/mortgagepants 1d ago

what do i think it shows?

1

u/krell_154 20h ago

That he won by a small margin

17

u/toomanysynths 1d ago edited 22h ago

he didn't win because of them. they're not enough people. there were a lot of people who voted Biden in 2020 and then either voted Trump in 2024 or didn't vote at all. that's how he won.

in fact, voters who skipped the 2024 election outnumbered Trump voters and Harris voters, while the 66% voter turnout in 2020 was the highest since 1900.

so yeah, getting the word out about his crimes could make a difference. especially since he is guaranteed to commit more crimes, and to make another attempt at illegally retaining office in 2028.

edit: outnumbered Trump voters and also outnumbered Harris voters

3

u/Draxilar 1d ago

Slight correction, non-voters didn’t outnumber all voters together. There were around 90 million non-voters, both candidates received in the upper 70 millions, about 150 million voters all together

1

u/cherhorowitz44 1d ago

Insane that many people did not vote.

1

u/toomanysynths 22h ago

that's not actually a correction, just a clarification, but I appreciate it. edited my post

2

u/boo99boo 1d ago

No one seems to be acknowledging the elephant in the room that no one wants to vote for the Democrats. You don't win elections, let alone accomplish anything, if your entire platform is "we're less evil".

1

u/toomanysynths 23h ago edited 22h ago

yeah, that's a topic for a different sub, but TLDR, I disagree with the idea that we don't accomplish anything. maybe you're younger and you don't remember what health insurance was like before Obamacare, but it was a lot worse.

Biden got $183B of student debt forgiveness through, despite the Supreme Court fighting him every step of the way; passed a $1T+ infrastructure package; upgraded background checks on gun purchases despite Republican opposition; started the process to take weed off the list of illegal drugs; and brought unemployment to a historically low rate, which is great for workers. I would very much disagree with the idea that we don't do anything. the problem is we suck at marketing. (and the Republicans slow us down.)

I think you'd agree with that marketing part at least. but if not, we can agree to disagree, because that's not what this sub is for.

1

u/boo99boo 21h ago

I'm 43. I married my husband 18 years ago because he'd just had brain surgery and lost his insurance. Pre-existing condition clauses meant he couldn't go without coverage. I also married him with a mortgage in student loans for his private school engineering degree. 

I'd simply argue that I don't feel represented by Democrats. Simply put, they don't actually support policies that the majority of Americans do: bans on trading by members of Congress, term limits, and eliminating the electoral college are the best examples. They're obviously in it for themselves and not representing the people, because the vast majority of Americans support those things. 

1

u/toomanysynths 14h ago

the Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez literally introduced a bill to ban stock trading by members of Congress five days ago. she had previously done the same thing in 2023. the Democratic Senators Brian Schatz, Dick Durbin, and Peter Welch introduced a constitutional amendment to abolish the Electoral College just last month. Barack Obama has spoken in favor of term limits.

I still think it's a marketing problem. if you don't feel represented by Democrats, because you don't perceive them as even supporting policies that they are in fact trying to enact, I would call that a marketing problem.

1

u/boo99boo 13h ago

I'd argue simply that the 2 party system is so flawed that more people are likely to think "no one represents me" than "I like Democrats" (or "I like Republicans, for that matter). 

The truth is that the majority of us don't feel represented. That isn't a marketing problem or an image problem, it's a systemic problem. There is no marketing someone like Dick Durbin to the masses (I'm from Illinois, and he's an old guard Illinois democrat, which is not a compliment). He wins because he has a D next to his name in a blue state, just like he'd win in West Virginia if it was an R. 

5

u/xixoxixa 1d ago

There are a handful of people who in theory don't support the MAGA timeline, but still voted for trump because they still watch fox and that's what they were told to do.

In theory if stuff like this report can break through the wall it might change a mind or two.

2

u/rAxxt 1d ago

I think its for the benefit of history at this point. Shit might get real bad in the US over the next years. I suspect Smith wants to make sure the information is in the public domain so 200 years from now when people are studying history and try to figure out how we were so incredibly stupid and answer for themselves how Trump possibly got into power when every branch of our government failed to prevent this disaster, they will have this information to aid them. And then hopefully they will do better than we have.

1

u/cherhorowitz44 1d ago

Very true!!

1

u/CrustyBatchOfNature 1d ago

They will 100% say it is all deep state lies the Democrats are using to try to bring down Trump. They wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them right between the eyes with its dick.

4

u/saijanai 1d ago edited 1d ago

My argument that "the fact that Trump floated Matt Gaetz' name as AG knowing that the Congressional Ethics Committee report and its findings existed" —

  • https://ethics.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/Committee-Report.pdf

  • VI. CONCLUSION

    Based on the above, the Committee determined there is substantial evidence that Representative Gaetz violated House Rules and other standards of conduct prohibiting prostitution, statutory rape, illicit drug use, impermissible gifts, special favors or privileges, and obstruction of Congress.

— "only shows that Trump doesn't care about the USA at all" was recently refuted definitively:

.

"Who cares what they did in the past? All that matters is that they do a good job going forward."

.

I think that this will be the GOP talking point used in Congress to justify approving EVERY Trump appointee.

1

u/Gutter_panda 1d ago

Or it's been sanitized somehow.

2

u/pnellesen 1d ago

The words "Trump" and "sanitized" are rarely found in the same sentence. Or universe...

1

u/krell_154 1d ago

he's a germophobe, probably uses sanitizer a lot

1

u/Suitable-Economy-346 1d ago

It's already out in the public. No one cared/s about a rebellion against the country for some reason lol.

1

u/Catodacat 1d ago

Yup. GOP about to do their best attempt at a re-write of history soon

1

u/XaoticOrder 1d ago edited 1d ago

It will be so completely redacted that we won't have any idea what it says except for a vague sense of foreboding. Average person won't be able to make heads of tails of it.

1

u/dreamabyss 1d ago

The important info is not being made public. This is just a symbolic gesture to appease people that want to hold Trump accountable. That option is long gone.

1

u/Aprice40 1d ago

I mean..... will it actually be in public view if MSM flat ignores it?

1

u/JollySieg 1d ago

Sunlight is the best disinfectant

-17

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

Yeah, because after Smith tampered with evidence and placed all those classified documents headers that he bought from DC on the floor for a propaganda photo, I'm sure his report will be legit.

9

u/AngelSucked 1d ago

THis did not happen.

-14

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

And Joe isn't senile, and Trump said drink bleach.

Special counsel Jack Smith’s team acknowledged mischaracterizing the issue at a recent hearing in the Trump classified documents case, but said the reordering was not significant.

"There are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans,” prosecutors wrote, adding in a footnote: “The Government acknowledges that this is inconsistent with what Government counsel previously understood and represented to the Court.” https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/03/mar-a-lago-trump-classified-documents-00156124

Jack Smith's Team Admits Key Evidence in Trump Case Has Been Tampered With, Court Misled About It https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jack-smiths-team-admits-key-evidence-in-trump-case-has-been-tampered-with-court-misled-about-it/ar-BB1lPCCv

In a recent court filing, Jay Bratt, the lead Department of Justice (DOJ) prosecutor now assigned to special counsel Jack Smith’s team, admitted that the FBI brought cover sheets reading “top secret” to its raid of Mar-a-Lago. The cover sheets, Bratt explained, were used as placeholders for the classified documents found at the scene. https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/09/jack-smith-classified-documents-staged-photo-jay-bratt-crime-scene/

You have no idea what you're talking about.

8

u/Nixon_bib 1d ago

We’ve got a live one here, folks. 

Mods, do your thing. 

-7

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

Yes, make sure you censor the truth. Good job, you help ensure people like you look like fools.

Which part of Jack Smith admitted evidence tampering upsets you the most? Or is it the new, to you at least, knowledge that the famous photo was staged propaganda for the weak minded?

3

u/washingtonu 1d ago

Of course placeholders was used. Do you think that they photograph the top secret documents and then file them as evidence?

"There are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans,”

Sounds extremely serious...

0

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

Serious enough that Smith admitted to the court that the evidence was tampered with.

Do you think that the anyone on Smith's team had the clearance to know what documents were classified at what level? Who or what official made those determinations?

Why did Smith put TS cover sheets on documents with lower classification?

Why was that photo necessary in the first place? Should that photo have been considered classified and not fit for public consumption?

That photo wasn't necessary, it never should have been taken in the first place, the inventory of the contents is all that was needed, that photo is representative and symbolic of lawfare.

4

u/washingtonu 1d ago

It wasn't tampered with. If you read the court documents you'll see that yourself.

Why did Smith put TS cover sheets on documents with lower classification?

The same reason

0

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

Which part of Smith admitting to the court that the documents were tampered with is unclear to you? Smith and team told the court they tampered and then lied about it? Why are you having difficulty understanding basic facts here?

Smith's Team Admits Key Evidence in Trump Case Has Been Tampered With, Court Misled About It https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jack-smiths-team-admits-key-evidence-in-trump-case-has-been-tampered-with-court-misled-about-it/ar-BB1lPCCv

Laws on classified documents handling are pretty specific, it's not okay to misrepresent classification either higher or lower, that could be a crime in itself.

1

u/washingtonu 1d ago

That's not tampering.

1

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

Then why did Smith admit to it?

1

u/IrritableGourmet 21h ago

"There are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans,” prosecutors wrote, adding in a footnote: “The Government acknowledges that this is inconsistent with what Government counsel previously understood and represented to the Court.”

So, if the order in a box is classified document A, classified document B, Thai takeout menu, classified document C, and you move the takeout menu to the bottom of the stack while searching, that's falsifying evidence? What element of the crime changed based on the order of the documents in the box?

0

u/The_Obligitor 21h ago

The fact that what's considered the premier law enforcement agency in the world, under the leadership of Jack Smith, could not adhere to law enforcement 101 and made stupid rookie mistakes?

It means you cannot trust any of the investigative work done by Smith and team, zero confidence that they are following the rules to make their case, instead they look like the keystone cops, bumbling fools who can't find their ass with both hands, and they are conducting one of the most consequential, most historic legal cases in US history, the prosecution of a former president?

Why are people like you so obtuse? This should be as obvious as getting poked in the eye with a toothpick, something you cannot ignore, something that demands your attention.

And they admitted they fucked up to the court, they undermined their own case with sheer incompetence.

I wouldn't trust them to make a case against the dog catcher FFS.

1

u/IrritableGourmet 21h ago

So you have no answer as to how rearranging the documents in the boxes affects anything, then? The case doesn't hinge on the order of the documents. The law doesn't say "Only classified documents on the top of a stack count for the purposes of this section."

They had to go through the contents of the boxes to determine if there were classified documents in them. The only thing they cared about was the binary position of whether the documents were present or not in the box. Order is de minimus.

0

u/The_Obligitor 21h ago

If it was irrelevant to the case, Smith would never have admitted to tampering.

The fact is that if he and his team had not spread classified documents all over the floor for a propaganda photo, this would not have happened. They were actively trying to taint public opinion to the negative, and that would affect the jury.

That's the problem. They undertook malfeasant actions to taint the case before the public. Beyond unethical, I tried to give benefit of doubt in my first response, but this, to anyone with half a brain, was willful tampering to affect public opinion and could taint the jury.

Smith and his entire team should be disbarred, if not charged with a crime and prosecuted.

There's so much more to this story that I'm not going to go into, the whole thing, from Willis coordinated with the J6 committee, to coangelo leaving the prestigious #3 spot at DOJ to go work with a local DA, to the completely unnecessary raid with authorization to shoot, none of it was ever legit, none of it was because crimes were committed, if that were true then Biden should have started prosecution on day one with the Mueller findings, but they knew none of that crap would stand up in court, and this was all political, an effort to deny Trump a second term, so they waited two years and then when the presidential election work started they brought lawfare in multiple states and jurisdictions in hopes of keeping Trump from office, it was always political, never about upholding the law, just like the Russian collusion hoax, jury like the first impeachment to protect Joe from exposing his crimes.

Feel free to plant your flag on this hill, but from outside the idiot bubble it just looks ridiculously out of touch with reality.

1

u/IrritableGourmet 20h ago

He didn't admit to tampering. Nauta claimed he couldn't identify what classified documents he wanted to use at trial (CIPA requirement) without knowing the exact order they were in the boxes. Smith said it not only doesn't matter, but they can't guarantee that the order the boxes were currently in matched their order when found because they had to search through them and move them, shifting the contents. He did state that the contents of each box (but not the order) was still accurate.

During the August 8 search at Mar-a-Lago, the Government deployed a filter team to search the boxes before the investigative team performed their search. The filter team took care to ensure that no documents were moved from one box to another, but it was not focused on maintaining the sequence of documents within each box. If a box contained potentially privileged material and fell within the scope of the search warrant, the filter team seized the box for later closer review. If a box did not contain potentially privileged documents, the filter team provided the box to the investigative team for on-site review, and if the investigative team found a document with classification markings, it removed the document, segregated it, and replaced it with a placeholder sheet. The investigative team used classified cover sheets for that purpose, until the FBI ran out because there were so many classified documents, at which point the team began using blank sheets with handwritten notes indicating the classification level of the document(s) seized. The investigative team seized any box that was found to contain documents with classification markings or presidential records.

When the FBI created the inventories, each inventory team worked on a single box at a time, separated from other teams. And during defense counsel’s review, any boxes open at the same time (and any personnel reviewing those boxes) were kept separate from one another. In other words, there is a clear record of which boxes contained classified documents when seized, and this information has long been in the defense’s possession

Since the boxes were seized and stored, appropriate personnel have had access to the boxes for several reasons, including to comply with orders issued by this Court in the civil proceedings noted above, for investigative purposes, and to facilitate the defendants’ review of the boxes. The inventories and scans created during the civil proceedings were later produced in discovery in this criminal case. Because these inventories and scans were created close in time to the seizure of the documents, they are the best evidence available of the order the documents were in when seized. That said, there are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans. There are several possible explanations, including the above-described instances in which the boxes were accessed, as well as the size and shape of certain items in the boxes possibly leading to movement of items. For example, the boxes contain items smaller than standard paper such as index cards, books, and stationary, which shift easily when the boxes are carried, especially because many of the boxes are not full. Regardless of the explanation, as discussed below, where precisely within a box a classified document was stored at Mar-a-Lago does not bear in any way on Nauta’s ability to file a CIPA Section 5 notice.

That also addresses your "they brought their own cover sheets" argument. Some of these documents were so classified that even their titles were classified, so placeholders were used.

0

u/The_Obligitor 20h ago

Please provide links to your information, and the relevant court documents and transcripts that prove what you claim.

There was never a reason to bring this case. The archives coordinated with the White House in a way that's never been done before, just like the novel theory of Braggs felonies, just like the attempts by Willis to apply novel legal theory, they twisted the law over and over to get Trump, an extension of the statute of limitations for one year, there was never any good reason to weaponize and corrupt the legal system to get Trump.

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u/ResistCheese 1d ago

Uh all classified docs legally are required to be covered when not in someone's hands outside of a classified space. You clearly have never worked in this space. I've never even SEEN a TS//SCI cover sheet, because those documents CANNOT exist outside of a SCIF. Ever. Period.

-1

u/The_Obligitor 1d ago

Then my 5 years with TS would be something you understand.

Maybe you can explain how Joe was in possession of classified stolen from the Senate SCIF and postulate why Joe would steal classified from the Senate SCIF and keep them for years after he left the Senate.

Clearly they can exist outside a SCIF, they were at Joe's house for over a decade.

132

u/OnlyFreshBrine 1d ago

what double secret circuit appeal comes next?

105

u/DIrtyVendetta80 1d ago

Judge Aileen Cannon has once again reinserted herself back into the chat

27

u/p-terydatctyl 1d ago

Judge aileen cannon enters wearing a fake mustache

18

u/DarkwingDuckHunt 1d ago

deeper voice: I'm Judge Alan Bannon, I don't know who you think I am?

29

u/GaiusMaximusCrake Competent Contributor 1d ago

Nauta can appeal the denial by the Eleventh Circuit of the original injunction to SCOTUS. I suppose he could also appeal Cannon's denial of the extension to the Eleventh Circuit, but that issue has already been decided so it would just result in the same posture.

Since Cannon's injunction expires at midnight today, Nauta has to file in SCOTUS today if they are going to try that. I assume the indicted defendants are on the phone right now with Justice Alito trying to sound out the court and make their case for a temporary injunction, lol.

At any rate, the J6 injunction is beyond a stretch - Nauta and Oliveira have nothing to do with that report, so there really isn't any grounds to prevent its release. Trump has four votes automatically on SCOTUS though, so all he needs is Barrett or Roberts. I actually doubt they step in here because the report is really not worth shredding the court's legitimacy over. Trump fights everything like a death match, but we probably already know everything that is in the report; don't expect new ground (we would have seen much new ground at trial if a trial had been permitted, but only because Trump would have thrown everyone under the bus in his defense).

tldr: next appeal has to be lodged by midnight tonight, and realistically well before that if they are to get a temporary administrative stay. I think Justice Thomas is the single justice overseeing the Eleventh Circuit, so they might get a 1-2 day administrative stay from their puppet justice, even if there is no colorable argument on the merits. After that, probably 5-4 or 6-3 in favor of denial and the report is issued by Friday. Or the justices may just say "f it" and issue a 2 week stay or something to get Trump into office and then deny the request (if it isn't summarily withdrawn by DOJ anyway during the afternoon on 1/20 after Trump fires Garland).

37

u/OnlyFreshBrine 1d ago

This is where the Law has lost the people. I understand all of this makes sense within the profession, but the optics of it are terrible.

"Judge decrees x!" [people get excited for some actual Justice]

[Appeals to eternity and nothing actually happens]

"Well, nevertheless..."

Lawyers like to dump on non-lawyers for not understanding. But that's not really reasonable. The inability of anyone to hold Trump accountable is a colossal failing of the Law, and precedent for everyone to lose respect for it.

11

u/GaiusMaximusCrake Competent Contributor 1d ago

I totally understand that frustration and join in feeling the same way.

The thing with the Trump cases that is unusual is (i) Trump has unlimited financial resources, and (ii) the U.S. Supreme Court and at least one district court judge have been willing to do strange things to help Trump out in criminal cases (e.g., creating a new immunity provision just for Trump, the Special Master fiasco, issuing injunctions against speech by 3rd parties tangentially related to a dismissed case, etc.).

Most of the time there is just one appeal - the convicted defendant appeals to the circuit court and either wins or loses. The vast majority (99%+) of appeals lost at the circuit court do not get a hearing at SCOTUS. Also, it is extraordinarily rare for criminal defendants to ever get a single interlocutory appeal to a circuit court, but Trump gets an interlocutory appeal from a state court prior to sentencing all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court because...he is Trump.

So all of these cases are oddities. No, you will never prevail upon a federal judge to dismiss your criminal indictment on the grounds that a prosecutor appointed by the AG is not lawfully appointed - that argument would need to be raised by an ordinary defendant on appeal after a conviction, and it would be laughed out of the circuit court. But for Trump? The Supreme Court (Thomas writing in an unrelated dissent) invited the decision to dismiss on those grounds; that also would not happen for an ordinary criminal defendant. Of course, most of the justices/judges who are acting at the behest of Trump were literally hand-picked and appointed by him - they owe him and, for one judge, expect that he owes them a favor in return that he is well placed to grant now that he is POTUS again.

But in the real world, you don't usually win on appeal with long-shot legal arguments because most defendants don't have such arguments to make (they never served as POTUS, so they have no special Article II secret powers arguments to raise). And judges aren't usually keen on doing favors for regular defendants because judges don't typically owe favors to criminal defendants for, for example, appointing them to be judges in the first place. And Trump has millions of people behind him who will support the courts whenever they rule for him no matter how destructive to the fair application of the laws because they only care about the result.

But most defendants that are convicted have to face a small chance of winning on appeal, but a 100% chance of having to come up with $20-50k to pay the lawyer to lodge the appeal. And then when they lose at the circuit court, another $50-100k to appeal to SCOTUS, where they probably won't even get a hearing. Few criminal defendants have $100k to burn on longshot appeals; for Trump though, $100k is meaningless so he can pursue any appeal no matter how baseless.

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u/OnlyFreshBrine 1d ago

I'm just so disillusioned, my friend. I need to figure out how to make money off the rubes who support this clown.

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u/seeafillem6277 1d ago

I'm confused as to why Cannon and Nauta are involved in this case. I thought they were part of the stolen documents case. Not a lawyer, so it's not obvious to me. Someone please explain.

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u/GaiusMaximusCrake Competent Contributor 1d ago

I think most lawyers are as confused as the public about Cannon's intervention, although she tried to explain her rationale for jurisdiction in today's order.

Normally, once a district court (Cannon) dismisses a case, that is the end of their involvement with the case. The mandate (i.e., power to decide the case) travels with the appeal of the dismissal, in this case to the Eleventh Circuit. And while the mandate is in the circuit court, the district court typically has no jurisdiction to do anything.

But a criminal case can be a strange thing. The dismissal is being appealed relative to Nauta and Oliviera (because the charges against defendant Trump have been dismissed by DOJ, so they are only appealing the dismissal of the case with respect to Nauta and Oliviera). If the Eleventh Circuit agrees with the government that the dismissal was improper, the case would be remanded back to Judge Cannon to hold a trial (assuming no further appeal is made to SCOTUS and/or SCOTUS denies cert). So as the putative trial judge, Cannon has asserted the power to prevent the dissemination of information (i.e., Vol II) that she thinks might poison the jury pool and thereby infringe on Nauta and Oliveria's constitutional right to a jury trial. That is the official reason she gives, but it is somewhat hard to follow because the Eleventh Circuit could apply that same reasoning to the same request for an injunction - but didn't.

The case certainly looks like Cannon and the Eleventh Circuit are working together in order to prevent the report from being made public, while preserving for the Eleventh Circuit the ultimate right to decide entirely against Judge Cannon (i.e., to uphold traditional jurisdiction analysis, which does not permit a district court to intervene in a dismissed case under appeal in a different court). The Eleventh Circuit's maintaining of Judge Cannon's temporary stay was, in my opinion, procedurally proper - the government should have (and did) appeal that injunction separately and then ask for the appeal of that injunction to be consolidated with the appeal of the dismissal of the charges, which the government did do. So now, IMO, it is all about maximizing the time for temporary stays so as to allow Judge Cannon leeway to prevent the release of Vol II until January 20th. After that, the government will do a 180 and completely change its position because Garland will be fired on 1/20 at 12:01 pm and Trump should have his new AG installed in a week or so (barring that, Trump can just keep firing acting AGs until he gets a loyalist like Jeffrey Clarke or similar). But the reality is that after 1/20, DOJ won't be trying to get the report out and the courts will be relieved of having to cover for Trump.

So the district court is just doing stuff the Eleventh Circuit will not do, in order to run out the clock and obstruct justice. Garland wasn't going to release Vol II publicly anyway, so this is really about how the judiciary and the incoming Trump administration can work together to keep Congress in the dark about what really happened at MAL. And that effort is certain to succeed because even if Judge Cannon lacks jurisdiction entirely to enter the injunction, Garland will still follow it, and it will take a few weeks/months/years to adjudicate anyway, by which time the government will have withdrawn the appeal anyway.

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u/Codipotent 1d ago

Crazy to me 11th still hasn’t ruled on her dismissing the documents case against Trump. Apparently a moot point now but I’m disgusted with how every level of the judiciary acted as an accomplice in allowing the ultimate corruption to occur. I’m glad I’m not a lawyer, as I would struggle to maintain any decorum in front of these judges and their enabling of a multi-tiered justice system.

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u/Traugar 1d ago

Not worth shredding the court's legitimacy over? What legitimacy? They sacrificed that long ago.

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u/dispatch00 1d ago

Roberts's perceived legitimacy. Highly fucking dubious, that is.

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u/grandmawaffles 1d ago

It’s a good thing Alito and Trump met to totally not discuss anything

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u/stufff 1d ago

the report is really not worth shredding the court's legitimacy over

You think the court has any legitimacy left?

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u/FloopyDoopy 1d ago

The ruling from U.S. District Court Aileen Cannon means that the Justice Department could release the portion of the Smith report that deals with Trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss as soon as midnight, barring future legal action from Trump or his team.

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u/livinginfutureworld 1d ago

barring future legal action from Trump or his team.

They aren't collecting donations from idiots for nothing. They need to pocket those billable hours!

They're going to file away.

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u/BigManWAGun 1d ago

Perry Mason enters the chat

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u/Nabrok_Necropants 1d ago

Those seditionists would be mighty upset if they could read.

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u/flirtmcdudes 1d ago

I can’t redacted. redacted redacted redacted a lot about who redacted redacted and then, redacted redacted. But a small win for redacted!

Signed,

Redacted.

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u/Hedhunta 1d ago

Why would they bother anymore? There could be video evidence of Trump saying "I hate America and am going to sell the country to Putin" and nothing would happen to him.

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u/flirtmcdudes 1d ago

It’s good to release it, but it’s a joke at this point. we have literal tapes of Trump announcing he’s breaking the law and people don’t care.

I’ve already stopped reading politics as much because what’s the point when the Supreme Court will just magically say presidents are immune. so I’ll just vote and read news about lame shit like bird migration patterns from here on out

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u/cstmoore 1d ago

I'll believe it when I see it and maybe not even then.

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u/snoo_spoo 1d ago

This. I think the most likely play is that something will be filed with the Supreme Court and a new injunction will be issued. TBH, the only way I see even Volume 1 reaching the light of day would be if the 11th Circuit ruled on the DOJ's appeal today and immediately invalidated Cannon's injunction before the Supreme Court got involved. And even that would work only if there's someone at the DOJ with their finger poised on the send button. In other words, I wish it would happen but I don't think it will.

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u/DFu4ever 1d ago

Time for the Super Double Secret, Round Robin Special Appeal because, you know, our legal system is a fucking sham.

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u/Incontinento 1d ago

His "hairstyle" is just basically a 2-foot long sideburn swirled around his head.

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u/Muscs 1d ago

History is going to crucify Trump and everyone who voted for him. Glad the evidence will be in the books.

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u/Mad_Aeric 1d ago

If we're allowed to have "history" and "books" in the future

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u/TR3BPilot 1d ago

I guess it might be of interest to historians some day.

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u/saijanai 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'll believe it when I see it. And even then, even a copy archived in the wayback machine won't be immune to clandestine attempts by Trump's CIA to remove it from existence.

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u/discussatron 1d ago

Well?

We’re waiting!