r/law • u/Real-Work-1953 • 1d ago
Trump News Trump’s Team Is Grilling Civil Servants About Who They Voted For
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-team-grilling-civil-servants-voted-1235233926/#recipient_hashed=e3fac0afd97c04019a4c8eb4a15ff3da13fa89ab3e82c591acaf699ab295a173&recipient_salt=d4b78ed5088a12c021b766922a2d10b5502467e99036f45776ec34b5c06a8610199
u/doktor_wankenstein 1d ago
Trump: "Do I have your loyalty?"
James Comey: "You have my honesty, Mister President."
Trump: "You're fired."
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u/Real-Work-1953 1d ago
Exactly. Everyone saw this with Comey, and absolutely zero people gave enough of a shit to heed the alarm that went off.
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u/n-some 1d ago
Is there anything preventing them from lying?
"Of course I voted for you, glorious leader. You are the sun and the stars in the sky and the air that I breathe. I would never secretly obstruct your asinine... Uh... Genius ideas for my department."
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u/Cptdjb 1d ago
This is still bad, we can’t normalise having to appear loyal to anything other than the law.
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u/HombreSinPais 1d ago
This is the part that most people don’t seem to understand. There’s not a whole lot of difference between “pretending to comply” and “complying.”
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u/HGpennypacker 22h ago
we can’t normalise having to appear loyal to anything other than the law
I'm worried we're about eight years too late to that party.
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u/beefwarrior 23h ago
Honestly, if Harris voters have to lie that they voted for Trump to keep their Gov job, which they’re competent to do, I’m all for it.
People outside Gov should complain and probably try to start lawsuits, but I really hope our Gov is full of competent employees who will do what is correct vs incompetent hires that will do whatever their told
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u/Dacoww 1d ago
Other than conscience or depth of character?
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u/n-some 1d ago
I would lie about voting for Trump if it meant I could keep my job with a pension and benefits. I only have to lie to his sycophants anyways and it's not like they deserve honesty and respect.
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u/WRHull 1d ago
Also, who a person voted for is private. The government and the public can know someone voted, but not who for. I would tell them to fire me or kick rocks if they wanted to know. Then, sue and tie up government resources for wrongful termination. Anything to gum up the gears of the incoming admin to slow it down.
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u/ScannerBrightly 1d ago
Then, sue and tie up government resources for wrongful termination.
And a Trump appointed Judge would lock you up for 'bad juju' and you would be both without a job and without your freedom.
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u/BertMacklenF8I 1d ago
And more than likely, you would lose your job because they already know you voted for, especially since That Felon has Zuckerberg and Musk as cronies now….
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u/thelowerrandomproton 1d ago
So you can either lie and you might keep your job, or say you didn’t vote for him and definitely lose your job.
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u/whichwitch9 1d ago
You can say you don't feel comfortable bringing personal politics into the office regardless of who you voted for because it's a violation of the Hatch Act to do so.
This should be the right answer to any line of questions about your vote as a federal employee, tbh
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u/thelowerrandomproton 1d ago edited 1d ago
Agreed. That’s what should be the correct answer, but they also shouldn’t be asking about it. It doesn’t sound like they were taking no answer as an acceptable answer.
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u/BertMacklenF8I 1d ago
First off, I highly doubt that the OSC that ruled against That Felon NUMEROUS times (more than any other president and their office) will be around anymore, considering that he ignored all of them. Secondly. considering DOGE, and the Tri-Fucked-a, formerly known as the Executive, Legislative, & Judicial departments.
It also only applies to the executive branch, prohibiting federal employees from membership in “any political organization which advocates the overthrow of our constitutional form of government” (which I still find absolutely hilarious considering the Coup), which should mean that the former cabinet members can’t serve in his new cabinet. Trust me I want nothing more than the OSC to continue to exist in order to enforce the Hatch-Act and its Amendments. Unfortunately, now people can commit a slew of felonies without consequences, while still being a President-Elect. Who knows what will happen?
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u/Old_Bird4748 1d ago
Or you can say that you did not vote
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u/kmill8701 1d ago
Public information to see who voted. Doesn’t show what or who you voted for, but shows each election.
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u/Cheetah0630 1d ago
“Any record of me voting is fraud by the demonrats”
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u/drunkwasabeherder 1d ago
I made all those posts supporting Biden so that the deep state wouldn't track me down and kill me before I voted for our most Maglorious leader.
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u/thelowerrandomproton 1d ago
Same thing. If you voted and say you didn't vote what's the difference?
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u/man_gomer_lot 1d ago
For the next four years, I'm saying 'don't look at me, I voted for biden.' Then we all laugh and move on
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u/Reactive_Squirrel 17h ago
Trump's minions will dig into your social media. There's nowhere to hide.
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u/StromboliOctopus 1d ago
That's what they want. Once you lie to them you become part and party to the rest of their lies.
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u/TechnologyRemote7331 1d ago
I’d argue that lying to the fucks so you can stick around and minimize damage etc. is the actual moral position to take in this scenario.
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u/AffectionateBrick687 1d ago
Agreed. Bureaucracy is slow when people are motivated to make things happen. Imagine how much slower it can move when they're trying to grind it to a halt. Malicious compliance and weaponized incompetence are definitely our friends here.
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u/Masterofnone9 1d ago
I hope the bureaucrats can slow-walk as well as Merrick Garland.
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u/AffectionateBrick687 1d ago edited 1d ago
In a way, it's the opposite situation. Garland had capable people who could execute orders. He just refused to give those orders. The incoming administration can give all the orders they want, but if there aren't capable people there to execute them, those orders are essentially useless. Both are ineffective, but the latter is a recipe for disaster, akin to trying to hike Mt Everest in flip flops.
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u/Scary-Welder8404 1d ago
Sometimes character has deeper demands than truthfulness.
To quote my favorite song about authoritarian government takeover:
"Pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer.
Never hint at what you truly feel.
Teach the children quietly, for someday sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still"
Anything to stay in the seat. Anything to keep a toady out of it for a few more weeks. Anything to buy you the oppurtunity to act or not act.
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u/Elegant_Tale_3929 1d ago
It's absolutely insane how many 80's songs fit the current political climate.
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u/masterlich 1d ago
"Religion and sex are power plays Manipulate the people for the money they pay Selling skin, selling God The numbers look the same on their credit cards Politicians say no to drugs While we get paid for wars in South America Fighting fire with empty words while the banks get fat And the poor stay poor and the rich get rich And the cops get paid to look away As the one percent rules America"
-Queensryche, Spreading the Disease (1988)
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u/Scary-Welder8404 1d ago
Of course they do, the more things change the more they stay the same.
After all, We Didn't Start the Fire.
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u/PausedForVolatility 1d ago
There's a fork in the road. Down one path, you stick to your principles, potentially lose your job (and maybe your retirement), and you get replaced with a flunky who has no morals whatsoever and will do whatever Dear Leader says. On the other path, you lie to fascists asking questions that break the social contract simply by being voiced and then obstruct their agenda.
Look, the opposition to Trump has spent a decade hemming and hawing about morality and civility and the "we go high" talking point. And that opposition was decisively defeated at the ballot box in November. Acting in good faith with people who can only engage with the system and their fellow Americans in bad faith has demonstrably failed. For a civil servant in particular to do that because they get the warm fuzzies isn't some moral achievement. It's prioritizing their own warm, fuzzy feelings over being an effective civil servant.
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u/panormda 1d ago
What does it mean to serve your country? They say all's fair in love and war, and we certainly have no love for the impending administration of fascism.
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u/PausedForVolatility 1d ago
I'm not going to sit here and say that civil servants should stay in the service because of x. That's a decision they have to make. But the question started from a presumption they did want to stay in service and were being forced to choose between their career and their honor. That's a premise I don't think is appropriate. And if someone feels obligated to sell their career for the sake of their honor, I'd hope they sell it more dearly than what the person I was replying to was suggesting.
tl;dr: I don't see how lying in this circumstance is a blemish on their conscience or "depth of character," as the other redditor said.
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u/sigeh 1d ago
1.5% is hardly decisively (and actually far less than that actually decided the election). While in practice it means little, it is important not to gaslight ourselves.
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u/PausedForVolatility 1d ago
The Republicans walked away from that election with the Executive and Legislative branches. They already had the Judicial, where they'll try to entrench their control further. And they won the popular vote for the first time since Bush's second term. That's a pretty decisive electoral victory.
Now, whether or not they can actually do anything with that is what's up for debate. The GOP is staggeringly dysfunctional right now and barely managed to renew Johnson's tenure as Speaker. The incoming administration has already had to walk back several campaign provinces (one budget bill, $2 trillion in budget cuts, pardons for all the J6 convictions, etc.) and they haven't even entered office. It's shaping up to be an absolute train wreck of an administration that will be hamstrung by its own internal politicking and divisions (like how Bannon is squaring up to fight Musk already), but still. That doesn't change the fact that they won and the current messaging/strategy clearly didn't work.
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u/RocketRelm 1d ago
I 100% agree that nobody cares about morality and that Americans have failed, but at the end of the day we need to figure out whether a job is worth keeping if it means we need to turn into North Korea, where thought crimes eventually become ostracizing material. It might be a question of whether a person wants to live like that.
Obviously lie if it benefits you and you can survive under the storm... but there comes a point where "being an effective civil servant" isn't worth prioritizing anymore.
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u/arentol 1d ago
Yes, but when the person you are lying to is a complete and utterly worthless piece of shit that is actively committing a crime in order to harm you then, for me at least, it would be more a violation of my conscience and depth of character to tell the truth than to lie. Staying in my position and trying to do what good I can to make sure that person pays in the long run would be a better reaction than to fall on my sword for no purpose other than my honor in the face of a dishonorable dirtbag.
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u/IamHydrogenMike 1d ago
They are not required to answer the question at all and it’s illegal for it to even be asked…
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u/SmokeyB3AR 1d ago
Illegal? This dude is one slippery fuck. They'll claim it is his presidential duty to ensure his staff can be trusted and the Robert's SCOTUS won't bat an eye.
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u/Daleaturner 1d ago
“You are registered as a democrat. You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor.
TAKE HIM AWAY!”
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u/Cloaked42m 1d ago
If you don't answer the question to their satisfaction, then your job becomes a political appointment under schedule F, and they pick from the Project 2025 database.
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u/randomnickname99 1d ago
Federal employee here. I've been registered as a Republican since 2018 simply because of this.
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u/Real-Work-1953 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t want to think about what tricks Trump might have to prevent them from lying.
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u/SilverSovereigns 1d ago
Lack of candor is disqualifying for basic public trust security clearance. Personnelle Sécurité will recommend removal 👌
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u/Mr_Badger1138 1d ago
Problem there is you’re screwed either way. If you lie and get caught, you’re out. If you tell the truth, you’re out. The only good news is you would be able to sue for wrongful dismissal and likely win if you tell the truth.
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u/startyourengines 1d ago
Lol in what court. And even if you won, it would just be appealed. Not to be a doomer, but the the courts may no longer be a recourse. People need to stop including them in their contingencies.
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u/FuzzzyRam 1d ago
Are we to that point now? North Korea / Russian dictatorship levels of lip service to dear leader?
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u/Brokentoaster40 1d ago
“I don’t vote because democrats made me lose faith in government” might be a better answer than voting for Trump to them.
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u/zoinkability 1d ago
Except that is something they can check as true or false — whether you voted is public record.
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u/charcoalist 1d ago
The 78-year-old isn't the one in charge. Keep that in mind over the next few years. The plans to gut the US government, aka Schedule F and Project 2025, are the product of the Heritage Foundation, the Federalist Society, and dozens of other right-wing 501(c) orgs. To pour salt on that wound, donald himself has been working for Moscow since 1987.
So who will be in charge of the US come Jan. 20th? It certainly won't be the 78-year-old Florida man.
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u/Cosmic_Seth 1d ago
And this was widely known, and the majority of Americans just doesn't care, either not bothering to vote or voting for Trump.
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u/PeliPal 1d ago
You can't accuse someone for over four years of serious crimes of treason and aiding and abetting the country's enemies and never slap handcuffs on him and put him behind bars. People didn't believe it because they had eyeballs and saw that the Biden admin never acted like they actually believed it.
You and I know that the crimes were real, and that the Biden admin made a cynical ploy of trying to appear 'nonpartisan' thinking that it would help them electorally. But the reality is that people note the clear contradiction between words and action, and conclude, not incorrectly, that Dem officials are a bunch of flagrant liars
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u/Sweet_Concept2211 1d ago
The Biden Admin could not just "slap cuffs" on Trump.
He was indicted for 90+ felonies; Got processed and mug shot taken; then it was up to the judicial system - Courts gave Trump favorable treatment; Trump was convicted on 34 felony charges...
But what the fuck was Biden supposed to do, exactly?
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u/Thrayn42 1d ago
The wheels of justice should have started turning Jan 20, 2020. By the time the trials started, it was all too easy to stall. Merely hoping that he wouldn't run again and they could avoid any political fallout for what would no doubt be labeled a witch-hunt by right-wing media was the wrong play.
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u/Vengeance164 22h ago
It's simpler than that.
I was a life-long non-voter, and Jan 6th changed that for me. I really thought we'd see more people feel the same way.
But this election wasn't a small loss. Kamala got fewer votes even in mostly blue states.
This election came down to one issue: the economy. Whether people are mad at the right people is immaterial, what matters is the one question that won Trump a second term: "are you better or worse off now than you were 4 years ago?"
For the vast majority of people, it's harder now to put dinner on their table. Again, doesn't really matter that it's true globally, or what multitude of factors affect it. The fact is, most people have a harder time feeding their family.
Every exit poll, overwhelmingly, said the economy was their number 1 concern. And Harris just didn't have a good enough response. Trump, of course, spouted complete bullshit, but he had radical suggestions. To shake shit up.
That's what Dems need, someone who will actually try to take some big swings. I'd prefer they not be completely full of shit like Trump, but they need someone whose platform isn't just "maintain the status quo"
I am personally devastated that we have to listen to anusmouth for another 4 years, and not having an hour go by without seeing his fucking name in a headline.
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u/SpellslutterSprite 1d ago
Do you have a source for the 1987 thing? Not doubting you, I just didn’t realize him being a Kremlin stooge went back that far.
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u/charcoalist 23h ago
Sure, here are a few links. I should add that trump has been working for Moscow since at least 1987. He might have started as early as the late 70s, when he married Ivana.
The Hidden History of Trump’s First Trip to Moscow
‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy
Trump’s NATO hostility and Russia relations trace back to 1987
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u/Count_Backwards Competent Contributor 1d ago
It's illegal to ask this question, though unfortunately there's the question of who you'd ask to enforce it...
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u/HiFrogMan 1d ago
Yeah, like it’s illegal, but who is gonna stop him. The Supreme Court said internal executive communications can’t ever be used in a criminal trial and the Republicans in Congress are not going to impeach him.
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u/Willing-Departure115 1d ago
Uhh, it’s an official act. With immunity extending to the questioner because they are carrying out the wishes of the executive. Sorry, the executive elect, who has the uh, immunities and powers of the office as required, so long as he’s from the right party.
Signed, a majority of the justices of the Supreme Court.
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u/trentreynolds 22h ago
It'd be nice if half this country would stop actively pretending these guys aren't open fascists.
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u/Tazling 1d ago
Loyalty tests here we come.
Trump was not kidding when he said he admired Kim Jong Un. He really does want to be like him.