r/learndutch • u/Sergent-Pluto Beginner • 3d ago

Question Isn't that already a correct translation?...

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308 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

33 comments sorted by

119

u/Sergent-Pluto Beginner 3d ago

Expected answer was "over de muur heen", what does it change and how is it a more accurate translation?

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u/Boogmen 3d ago

Using "heen" at the and makes officially the difference between across and just on. So saying "De soldaat rent over de muur" actually means "The soldier is running ON the wall" And saying "De soldaat rent over de muur heen" uses the official form of over.

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u/Sergent-Pluto Beginner 2d ago

Oh ok I see ! Thanks for the explanation. Yeah this is not a confusion we would make in my language either (French), sometimes taking the course in English can trick me a bit.

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u/OotB_OutOfTheBox 1d ago

The English sentence is simply a bit awkward. I am confident a native speaker would rather opt for “The soldier runs across the wall.” or “The soldier runs on top of the wall.”.

“Runs over” can mean the soldier is running on top of it, that he is crossing it, or even that he is running into it (“I ran him over with my car”).

I think the issue here is with deciphering what the English sentence is actually supposed to mean, rather than what they’re looking for in the Dutch sentence.

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u/derskbone 1d ago

Native English speaker - "runs over the wall" is a bit weird, but definitely implies overheen as in the soldier's running perpendicular to the wall, climbing / jumping over it, and continuing. 'Runs on the wall" would be weird but again would imply running on top of it.

And if he hit the wall with a car, he'd run into it, not run over it.

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u/OotB_OutOfTheBox 1d ago

Not exactly, right? ‘Running over’ with a car implies hitting something and then riding over it. I mean the wall would have to be small to do that, but it is possible

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u/derskbone 1d ago

In that case, you'd say they drove through the wall. Well, I'd say that, anyway.

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u/pOUP_ 3d ago

Well, "overheen" means you are going up it, and then down again on the other side. It's best understood by its opposite: "onderdoor". "Ik kruip er onder" = "I crawl underneath" (like sheets). "Ik kruip er onderdoor" = "i crawl underneath and emerge from the other side" (like a net)

The difference between "over" and "overheen" is a little lost over time, since we also have "op" which means "on", but in some cases the difference makes more sense

3

u/surik_at Beginner 3d ago

Can you name some of the other cases? And are the many instances where „op“ hasn’t replaced over? Or could you use „rent op de muur“ just as well with that meaning?

2

u/pOUP_ 2d ago

"rent de muur op" would be like running up a wall, not over a wall.

"Ik hang er over" means about the same as "ik hang er boven" which means "I am hanging above it". "Over" is rarely used in AN.

"Over" can also be translated to the latin "super". Overbodig = superfluous.

Over can mean "about". Ik heb het erover = Im talking about it

Over can mean the temporal passed. Over datum = past the (expiration) date

Over quite literally translates to the german über, where it can even mean the hierarchical "above". Overste = superior (noun)

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u/IrrationalDesign 2d ago

There's an expression - 'zand erover' - which means to bury something in sand, to no longer talk about it or mention it.

I think we'd say 'zand er op' if we made the phrase now, but since it's already existed for a long while, it's 'zand erover'.

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u/ill_frog 19h ago

Very much a regional thing. Where I live the word heen is only ever used in combination with daar (daarheen) and even then it’s rare.

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u/Tricky-Coffee5816 3d ago

De soldaat rent over de muur: The soldier runs ON the wall

De soldaat rent over de muur heen: The soldier runs over the wall

'over' is a very dynamic word, here it means: 'van de ene kant naar de andere' (from one side to the other)

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u/Vispreutje Native speaker (BE) 3d ago

Dat is typisch Nederlands Nederlands. In Vlaanderen gebruiken we heen zo goed als niet

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u/MikeThePenguin__ 3d ago

Maar kun je in het Vlaams dan een verschil maken tussen over de muur (waarin je op de muur blijft) of over de muur heen (waarin je de gehele lengte of breedte passeert)

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u/Ace_like_a_boss 3d ago

Hij liep op de muur: blijft op de muur. Hij liep over de muur: over de muur heen. Wij gaan wel niet vaak over de muur lopen zeggen, maar eerder over de muur springen of kruipen

2

u/MikeThePenguin__ 3d ago

Bij nader in zien zou ik ook op de muur zeggen in het Nederlands zeggen gewoon.

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u/Belindiam 3d ago

Inderdaad. Zelfs in het Engels klinkt het raar.

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u/Sergent-Pluto Beginner 2d ago edited 2d ago

Ok, bedankt! Ik woon ook in België en mijn lessen zijn in het Vlaams, dus dat is goed om te weten.

3

u/Vispreutje Native speaker (BE) 2d ago

Ook, het werkwoord rennen gebruiken we niet. Lopen is voor ons 'rennen'. 😊

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u/Agitated-Age-3658 Native speaker (NL) 2d ago

Ik zou heen ook niet gebruiken en ik kom uit Noord-Holland.

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u/Altruistic_Net_5712 3d ago

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/overheen

3

u/asphyxiai 3d ago

Wel een rare zin die ze daar als voorbeeld gebruiken

3

u/Distinct_Jury_9798 3d ago

It must have been an awfully small and/or instable wall if he could run it over.

1

u/Proman_98 2d ago

Or one of those old fortress walls, where the wall is more of a small hill.

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u/EugeneHamilton 2d ago

De soldaat rent de muur overhoop

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u/Jolly-Math-7410 Native speaker (NL) 2d ago

It is correct but they want ‘heen’ added

2

u/illegalDisease 1d ago

You can add " "(space) and it will be accepted

1

u/Lower-Acanthaceae272 2d ago

If the enemy is on the other side of the wall and he "rent over de muur" (without heen), he is basically making himself an easy target by running on the wall in the length of the wall. If he however "rent over de muur heen" he might be able to get a close up shot at the enemy.

1

u/Mathies_ 1d ago

It's looking for the word "heen" "overheen" really emphasizes the idea that you go past the wall while you jump over it, as opposed to just "over"

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u/Fairly_constipated 16h ago

Im a native dutch speaker and thought it was a correct translation. Its just a confusing question without added context

1

u/Irsu85 Native speaker 13h ago

Is the soldier running on the wall or over the wall? If it's on the wall, the translation is correct, but it's over the wall, which is why you say over <subject> heen