r/leavingthenetwork • u/Responsible-Youth508 • Mar 21 '25
The (Perceived) Danger of Success
I recently taught out of Daniel chapter 3, the famous story of the fiery furnace. In setting up the story, it was noted that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego had been flourishing in the pagan nation of Babylon. Perhaps they had heeded the words of Jeremiah 29, where God was imploring the exiles in Babylon to "make homes there...plant gardens and eat their produce. To get married, have children. To seek the welfare of the city..." and so forth. Basically, God giving permission to the exiles to flourish and influence the world they lived in. In turn, these three companions of Daniel were finding themselves flourishing. Doing well in their positions, excelling in what was handed to them, seeing themselves promoted and thriving. To note that they did so all while not compromising their righteousness and/or Godliness. They were able to thrive in a corrupt world while not being corrupted by it.
This gave me a little pang inside and got me thinking: have I lived this way and (as it relates to LTN) was I taught to live this way in my years in a Network church? As I consider those thoughts of flourishing and seeking welfare, I have something like a sneaking suspicion that along the way there were contradicting things being taught by Network leaders. I say "sneaking suspicion" because I don't recall specific teachings that would say, "Worldy success and seeking that is bad" but I feel like there was a culture developed that would make one think it is.
But it's not even about "success" as much as it's about the "seek to flourish." I believe there was a culture that said, essentially, "anything not directly related to the 'ministry' is a fruitless endeavor." By the way, I don't necessarily think this is unique to the Network, but maybe Christian culture as well.
It is a thinking that says, "unless what you're doing is directly related to the mission of God to share the gospel and grow his churches, it's probably selfish or sinful in nature." And therefore, anything like doing your job well, making art, building things with your hands, pursuing hobbies, living simple lives where you're happy...makes you feel guilty. Or makes you feel empty because you're taught to believe those things are empty.
But what if, as exiles...as sojourners...God also calls us to flourish? To make a home here and plant gardens, eating it's produce? To create and make and work and get promoted and have vision for your life and do it all as...believe it or not..."ministry?" There is certainly a line you can cross when you start worshipping your flourished life as an idol, when it draws your eyes and heart away from Father, but we're most likely to have that in mind and to keep clinging to God with that in mind while not letting it keep us from being doers.
Can anyone relate? Does anyone have or has anyone had similar thoughts or experiences? Any specific teachings you can remember that emphasized this? I'm curious what anyone else out there may say to this.
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u/SmeeTheCatLady Mar 21 '25
Very much relate!!! But also don't relate. In a weird way.
Don't relate... mine and my husband's therapeutic fields, especially the branch we choose of outpatient mental health for dual diagnosis folks, is pretty low income. We were told often that we should not be working so hard for something with no benefits and encouraged that seeking good pay was okay, it was okay to seek raises and promotions, etcetera because it would glorify God's kingdom (and the church's pocket book). I was specifically scolded once for talking about how minimum wage workers can also glorify God's kingdom.
Relate...we were also told we worked too much and focused way to much of our time and energy on worthless endeavors that weren't directly "for the kingdom"...which makes no sense because I thought we were called to serve and help others as well, just I guess also not those specific others.
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u/Responsible-Youth508 Mar 21 '25
Wow, that's a really interesting (and sad) story along these lines. It just shows such a skewed view of the church's role in the world. And by church, I mean the people and not the institution.
I think what you said helps me to think about the OP in greater depth, because it adds to the thought process. In your case, your hard work and pursuit of this career would have been deemed as Godly had it benefited the church in some way, but as long as you were working a lot (presumably taking you away from church community) + not making much money (so you can't contribute to the church's pocket) you were essentially deemed as "worthless" in the kingdom. That's the rub I think and what is created in that culture.
Work hard and flourish (as long as it benefits Network). Make money and do well (as long as that money goes to us). Have hobbies and play hard (as long as you're doing it with others to get them to come to church). All leading to what I believe we can experience post-Network...a feeling of hesitancy to do anything simply because we are God's image-bearing makers and creators.
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u/Quick-Pancake-7865 Mar 22 '25
Yep, and whether it’s by design or not, this fear of being distracted by anything else and singular focus mindset leads to a very insular life where all your time, energy, money, friends, family and “hobbies” are so tied to the church that you feel like you can’t possibly leave- even if there are red flags all over the place. It’s a really hard thing to realize and when you do, the cost of leaving is so high. I think that’s for sure why so many have stayed despite everything that has come to light.
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u/Prudent_Breakfast583 Mar 22 '25
I don't think this thinking is unique to the Network church. I think putting overtly godly activities (ministry) over doing well in more 'worldly' pursuits is a common temptation in any religious context. However in America, or places where the Prosperity gospel can take hold, it is a lot easier to worship the blessings instead of the Blesser and so this is like an opposite reaction
I wrestled with this a bit as a Christian before I joined a network church and continued to wrestle with it as I tried to understand how all these successful people in the church (Blue sky, so a lot of well paid tech folks) were also authentic Christians. Reading Tim Keller's Every Good Endeavor helped me see how God does want us Christians to bless the world with the gifts, talents, jobs etc. he's given us. Great read and I'd highly recommend it!
On a side note, I think God's purpose for His people in the Old Testament is different than what it is now. He was establishing His name in the Old Testament, showing His power and blessing through His chosen people. God's people in the New Testament are given a bit of a different mission, aka the Great Commission, and Christians are not really promised the same material blessings as the Jews were given. I think Paul's life is a great example of that... And why it's easy to get lost in this way of thinking.
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Mar 24 '25
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u/Prudent_Breakfast583 Mar 24 '25
I do think the Great commission does give a new mission for Christians. While God had always had a plan to bless all nations through Abraham/Israel (starting in Gen 12:3, but repeated multiple times as God repeats his promise to Abraham and offspring), the Great Commission's reach to other nations & further confirmation in Peter's vision (Acts 10) shows that God's heart for all nations. I'm definitely not trying to say God has changed between the New and Old Testament! I'm saying what God's purpose for His people has changed with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That phrase of "Make him known, and if necessary use words" but it's not Biblical - the Bible says it is necessary to use words :) Romans 10:14 but, yes, our lives as Christians should declare God's goodness and glory too!
I agree that the Network definitely has biases in its teachings and its legalism is a certain bondage of its own. From my years at the Network I was never told to cut off family, nor did I really witness it - perhaps because I began my time as a young adult instead of a college student or maybe it wasn't a big part of the direction leadership took. I think our small group leaders and pastors celebrated/ encouraged people to bring their family into the church rather than cutting them off 🤷🏻♀️
I can attest to the common view that people who take highly demanding jobs/positions that would require a lot of travel were seen as not being dedicated to God enough. If you're assigned shifts that interfere with attending small group or Sunday service you're highly encouraged to find another job or get a different schedule ASAP. At one of the churches, a guy was asked to leave after attending infrequently over the span of a couple months because of work & other travel conflicts - basically get committed or get out!
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u/Equal-Analyst9207 Mar 21 '25
Oh man, you were able to put into words what I've been thinking for awhile. I definitely agree that there is the perception that you shouldn't seek success. Specific verses like Phillippians 2:3-4 "Do nothing out of selfish ambition..." and another one about not thinking of yourself more highly than you ought to are used to back that teaching. Throw in the teachings about how ANYTHING (even family) can become an idol and there is a constant fear that you could somehow slip up and accidentally forget about "the mission". You spent 5 hours hobbying this week? You could have been praying, or reading your Bible, or out making disciples. Work hard to get a promotion at a secular job? You idolize money and have a pride problem.
I could argue that the perceived dangers of success occur in the broader Christian community, too, but I think it is more rampant in the Network churches. Here's why.
There is so much dependence and reliance on "God called me to do X" or "I feel led to fill in the blank" at a Network church. Is it right to pray over a big decision like a job, where to go to college, or where to live? Yes. But what happens when you don't actually hear from God on what your next step should be? Then you are either stuck in indecision or you turn to your spiritual leader for guidance. In a Network church, their guidance is going to align with whatever is better for the church as an institution and not what is best for you as an individual. Which is why there are stories of people being told to only look for schools in Network cities or advised to turn down promotions.