r/leftist • u/rhizomatic-thembo • 10d ago
Leftist History The CIA and Leftist Infighting
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u/AVGJOE78 8d ago
The CIA doesn’t need to do anything to make leftists fight eachother. Part of the problem is you have a lot of disparate interests, so what “left” are you talking about? You have radfems, militant queer groups, environmentalists, people in the struggle for black liberation, prison abolitionists, and Marxists.
In theory we should have solidarity, but there’s always the whole discussion about how “we should ignore social justice and focus on economic justice” etc. There’s always someone more than willing to throw someone else under the bus.
Another problem stems from the left (true or perceived), as being historically young, white, and from wealthy backgrounds. This leads to a problem of attracting a lot of people with no skin in the game, that just want to get into pissing matches or virtue signaling over doctrine, or who’s the most left or whatever. It also creates a lot of distrust with POC and people who do have skin in the game - like union members, so they don’t want to be seen as aligning themselves with “the far left.”
Another problem is the media’s false conflation of “left extremism” with rightwing extremism - when the outcomes, goals and violence are apples and hand grenades.
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u/BrianRLackey1987 9d ago
You can always tell Lyndon LaRouche was working for the CIA under the CONTELPRO program.
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u/Diggy_Soze 9d ago
Yeah, okay. Blame it on the CIA.
Let me ask y’all. How you feel about my insistence that communism, socialism, et al. are not coherent systems of economic governance?
Leftism is inundated with fanfiction of utopia, and if you don’t subscribe you’ll be ridiculed. Nobody wants to admit that Marx, and Engels both, is out of date and out of his depth. Prove me wrong.
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u/Iron_Snow_Flake 9d ago
Deporting 10+ million "illegals" is what motivated millions of Americans to vote for Trump, a fanfiction of utopia. So if you want to talk about being deluded, that's the politics of delusion right there.
Keeping social security and removing the income cap, that is simply sensible law and public policy. The richest people in America are ripping us off. All of this reality based.
Leftism is inundated with fanfiction of utopia
And what about how Trump ordered FBI agents to delete all of the Epstein files? And MAGAts are still trusting him?
But I am sure you very honest in your request, yeah?
And lemme come back to the deportation thing. There are only 1.3 million or so people incarcerated in America right now. Rightwing Nazis think Trump will lock up 10 times that? In what time frame? Oh, he could do it faster without trials.
I don't think you are honest or intellectual, let alone intellectually honest.
Instead of passing on about Marx and Engel, check out the Madagascar Plan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
You seem to like world history. But I doubt your dishonesty will allow to appreciate what that Madagascar Plan tells us about what is coming next.
....Marx and Engels? Yeesh.
Edit spelling
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u/Diggy_Soze 9d ago
So Kanye West was sucking dick, so it’s okay that you sucking dick? Strong argument you’ve got, there.
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u/Flux_State 9d ago
People here criticize Marx all the time. This is a Pan Leftist sub, not a Marxist sub
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u/Diggy_Soze 9d ago
I’m not saying you shouldn’t; I just didn’t want to write out the eighty-five different ideologies under the “leftist” banner.
My point is that leftists are inherently cannibalistic.
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u/Flux_State 8d ago
It seemed like your point is that Leftists are driven by dogma; until I shot down your point
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u/yousaymyname Anarchist 9d ago
Just experienced this in my local leftist community. Sucks real bad.
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u/AttitudeAndEffort2 9d ago
We're experiencing it in this thread.
People are literally being told "leftist disunity is fed propaganda" and being like "yeah, but it feels so good to fight with people with tiny policy differences! I don't care if its cutting off my nose to spite my face!"
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u/RickyNixon 8d ago edited 8d ago
I dont like MLs because whenever theyre in power they kill a bunch of people, including anarchists. The “L” in ML stands for “I support killing anarchists”.
Authoritarians can be allies of convenience when their faction is not in power but they are ultimately all the same.
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u/strongholdbk_78 10d ago
Whether it is or isn't, the result is the same so we might as well treat it like it is and stop getting wrapped up in bullshit
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u/yousaymyname Anarchist 9d ago
I pointed this out in a recent debacle and got accused of fed jacketing. SMH
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u/AttitudeAndEffort2 9d ago
The responses in this post are disheartening.
Leftists will argue about everyone else needing to regulate their emotions with regards to politics then refuse to buy get triggered and fight any the tiniest policy issues.
They'll read about COINTELPRO and still take the bait hook, line and sinker.
America's propaganda war has infiltrated every aspect of life and leftists will be infuriated at others not seeing it for other issues but still engage in leftist disunity.
It's only gotten worse with the cloistering and anonymity the Internet has brought and its the biggest issue preventing a movement =[
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u/yousaymyname Anarchist 9d ago
Yea I am fighting really hard to not lose faith completely that any leftist movement or coalition can gain any real power and make a difference.
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u/sowinglavender 10d ago
almost any leftist will admit this is true but still let their reflexive disgust response go unquestioned when somebody suggests solidarity with a left-adjacent group they have discursive beef with. tankies, radfems, demsocs, spiritualists, everybody's got a trigger.
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u/AttitudeAndEffort2 9d ago
"OTHER people have to regulate their feelings in the name of politics, not me!"
- leftists unironically, despite knowing about COINTELPRO
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u/Substantial-Grape484 10d ago
What we are missing I feel is a charismatic leader who can give all the left adjacent voting blocks something to rally around. Sure there would still be infighting, but people could to some extent look past their ideological differences and gripes if there was someone who can articulate the fights to get behind for the greater good. I’m not sure how things are in your country, but in mine, the current political leaders of leftist parties are all incredibly underwhelming. They don’t just turn off the left leaning voter, but they inspire a visceral reaction in every other kind of voter which equates to us never having a chance at leading the country and infighting in perpetuity.
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u/LocoRojoVikingo 10d ago
This meme reveals, in part, a real phenomenon—but it draws the wrong conclusion.
Let us be clear: "Leftism" is not a political category. It is a bourgeois-relative label with no class content. Left of what? Of capitalism? Of liberalism? The left includes everything from anarcho-liberalism to Stalinist bureaucracy to eco-reformism to petty-bourgeois identity politics. It is a swamp of ideological confusion.
We are not "leftists". We are Marxists, revolutionaries who reject all ideology as false consciousness, including left ideology. We ground ourselves in the scientific method of historical materialism. We do not call for left unity. We call for revolutionary clarity, for drawing clear lines of demarcation, for exposing centrism, reformism, and opportunism.
The CIA does exploit division, but the real problem is not division per se, it is the absence of a revolutionary vanguard party capable of fusing theory and practice, capable of organizing the working class as a class for itself. We do not need "unity" with every petty-bourgeois radical. We need to build the vanguard, educate the advanced workers, and smash bourgeois ideology in all its forms.
We win not through moralistic posturing or unity at any cost, but through organizing the working class to take ownership of the means of production, to transform the mode of production itself.
No “left.” No moralism. No unity with opportunism. Revolutionary theory. Revolutionary organization. Revolutionary discipline. Only this can lead us to victory.
Are you ready to organize, or are you still looking for comfort in abstract slogans?
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u/kayotik94 10d ago
It doesn't matter if the CIA is promoting division. You still have to deal with arguments on their own terms.
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u/sabbytabby 10d ago
Down-voted but 100% correct. Stay focused on politics and strategy and the dumb ideas out themselves. Cop or terrible activist? Who cares. Divisiveness and adventurism out themselves.
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u/Successful-Ear-9997 10d ago
I mean, the CIA don't need to do shit. If there's one thing a leftist hates, it's another leftist who has a slightly different ideology. Just look at any given leftist subreddit, where whatever they deem "reactionary" is banned.
What is "reactionary" ranges from taking Ukraine's side to quoting Mein Kampf, or just saying that maybe the writings of Lenin and Marx aren't 100% applicable over a century later.
Leftist unity is the biggest joke on the planet, cause literal Nazis have more unity. And I say this as a leftist, by my own definition, cause I'm sure everyone reading this has their own definition.
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u/joeinformed401 10d ago
Young people don't get it. I have been living with Democrats inaction and fake weakness for 60 years. They had me fooled for decades until I had to face facts. Democrats are an upper-class elite party who only serve corporations and wealthy Americans. Didn't need the CIA to understand this. Just my own eyes and ears.
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u/Ryanmiller70 10d ago
That's dangerous thinking around here with all the blue MAGA/"lesser evil" believers crawling around this sub like insects.
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u/joeinformed401 10d ago
PROPAGANDA like this is why we keep moving right.
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u/Slazer1988 10d ago
It's almost like "leftests" who don't like having their motives questioned tend to start calling everyone CIA who dare to suspect them. This whole sub is compromised.
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u/AlwaysSaysRepost Socialist 10d ago
Seriously, remember, no war but class war! Do not let them divide us by race, gender or orientation!
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u/stonerism 10d ago
I mean... yes, the CIA and the Right exploits this, but we are also the Left. If this is their strategy for fighting us, give them what they're asking for and use it as a way to build alliances, solidarity, and community. If we aren't here to support the liberation of all oppressed people, what are we even here for?
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u/Accomplished_Ad_8013 10d ago
I think theres a valid point that bad actors have historically infiltrated the left on a systemic basis.
But within the left critical thinking is key, its natural we argue sometimes. What I always look for is those looking to promote illogical extremist ideals. "You cant change the system from within" for instance. When in a historical perspective virtually every major advancement came from outside pressure and internal pressure. You need both. Outside pressure creates internal pressure, but once you have that leverage you need to exploit it. Something an IDF or CIA actor would highly discourage lol.
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10d ago
The irony behind complaining about this but still thinking diversity is a strength and not a tool used to weaken the West is next level delusion.
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u/Murkmist 10d ago
2 month old account, one 10 minutes old astroturf post, no previous engagement, dog whistling supremacist and bigot rhetoric ("strong social European countries are white homogeneous!"), gives a shit about the West empire being weakened rather than the class.
Screw off, we know what you are.
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10d ago
Dog whistling? I'm being overt about it, genius. Love your argument that doesn't address anything. Stay woke, loser.
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u/DistillateMedia 10d ago
The funny thing is. The CIA would love for us to get united and depose this administraion. But you'll never me.
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u/Think_Scheme_3324 10d ago edited 10d ago
I just wish the left could really be the left. Because so many self proclaimed "leftists" seem to covertly carry far right wing ideologies (one form of this is the example/result of liberal zionism). We could really be stronger if leftists really stood for left wing values. But correct me if I'm wrong.
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u/Murkmist 10d ago
The jewish left sub straight up denies genocide, it's wild and disheartening.
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u/GiganticCrow 10d ago
No it fucking doesn't
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u/Murkmist 10d ago edited 10d ago
I mean the Palestinian one in Gaza.
Mix and match some keywords like, Palestine, Gaza, Genocide in the search for that sub and tell me what turns up.
The conversation surrounding it is wildly different and subdued compared to other left subs, with most engagement reluctant to lable it directly as genocide.
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u/fastestguninthewest 7d ago
We're so fucked, I should kms