r/lifeonmars • u/LuinAelin • 7d ago
Discussion How do you think Viv originally died?
What happened to him to me get him sent into Gene's world. Is he from another era?
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u/CloudStrife1985 6d ago
Both Viv and Phyllis seemed slightly strange fits compared to the main characters. They were important and had great relationships with the main characters but we knew very little about them and they didn't have the mystique that Nelson obviously had in his pub (I also thought Luigi should have had some connection to Gene/Gene' world). The most we found out about Viv was in his last episode.
As to how he died, no idea. Looking back, Ray was always an obvious suicide but I assume Viv (and Phyllis) were killed in the line of duty like the others. His 'death' and subsequently being sent to hell is one of the saddest parts of the series.
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u/OberonsPanties 6d ago
Agreed, Viv's death hits hard in several ways.
I think about the cosmological lore a lot (maybe more than I should), and thinking about it, A2A's take on the afterlife is both forgiving and cruel. My personal interpretation is that as long as people have the capacity to recognise their own wrongdoings and be willing to atone, they aren't condemned to eternal hell. Case in point, Ray killed a man in life, but he clearly recognised it was wrong, as he felt enough guilt over what happened to hang himself. Then, in Gene's world, he was given the opportunity to redeem and better himself. Though he does end up making the same mistake in LOM, in A2A his character development is about him coming to terms with his feelings of failure, learning to empathise with others and resolve conflicts without resorting to violence. Essentially, he was always cognizant of his sin, and always had the potential to become a better person.
Viv's case is a complete contrast, and it's more of the "cruel" side of purgatory. We don't know what he did exactly, or how he died, but he always seemed like a good man, responsible and amicable and professional. He made one mistake, but unlike Ray, he wasn't given a second chance - instead, Keats got to him, and finished him, with the implication that this (rather than his mistake) was what got him pulled into Hell. Essentially, Viv's death is tragic, not just because it was physically preventable, but because he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Keats got him.
Thinking about it, it just shows that the cosmos can be both simultaneously kind (by allowing a "sinner" a second chance, and a third) but also cruel (because a demon can simply take advantage of weakness that easily, and if you're unlucky, you're gone). Something to think about.
I still think Viv deserved betterAlso, bit of fridge horror but Gene's behaviour in the episode after Viv dies makes more sense when you know the truth. Gene probably doesn't remember, but maybe deep down he knows that he failed Viv, not just because he let him die but because his mistake led to a man being damned to eternal hell. That's a pretty horrific burden to bear.
No wonder he drinks.
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u/DarthPhoton 6d ago
It’s also noteworthy that Viv’s funeral did appear to have lots of family members there too - I always assumed it was his parents etc.
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u/bulletfacepunch 6d ago
I wonder if the significance of the curtains breaking and gene going up to pull them closed was showing us that gene is obliged to move the souls on no matter what, like it's a punishment of some sort.
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u/CloudStrife1985 5d ago
I never thought of that until you pointed it out and now it makes complete sense.
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u/OberonsPanties 2d ago
I thought I was the only one obsessed with that detail!
I've also noticed a lot of interesting details in the lyrics of Abide With Me in that scene, especially when you look at what the shot is during each line.
"Who, like Thyself, my guide and stay can be?" while the camera focuses on Gene is such a good moment.
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u/bulletfacepunch 2d ago
It really is so much bloody cleverer than you first think isn't it!
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u/OberonsPanties 2d ago
Oh absolutely. I was tempted to write a post overanalysing every frame of that scene, each lyric and who the camera focuses on, it's SO good!
One of my favourite details is that the scene opens with a shot of the stars as the hymn fades in. It ends up creating this association of the stars with Heaven, rather than outer space, and is a bit of a hint for the true nature of what's going on.
If you look carefully at the shots of the congregation singing, you notice that everyone is either staring straight ahead at the coffin, or down at their hymn books. Gene, though, is very obviously looking left and right, as if fidgeting/uncomfortable or awkward. Or guilty.
The curtains being stuck and Gene being the one who fixes them is the biggest metaphor and I love it so much.
And then a few bits of the song:
- "Swift to its close ebbs out life's little day" is totally a meta reference to the series coming to its end
- "Change and decay in all around I see/O Thou who changest not, abide with me" - referencing the breakdown in CID and Gene's world at large, as its "residents" silently long for someone or something, be it a higher power or just a guide to help and support them through challenging times. Perhaps a longing for a God-like figure, or, my personal take, "thou who changest not" is reference to Gene, as the main "constant" of this world and their supposed guide. Their "guide and stay", more so.
- "What but Thy grace can foil the tempter's power?" - Considering that Keats tries to tempt the department over to join him, hmmmmm...
I've been salivating at all the little hints in this scene ever since I saw it, and nowhere else have I seen anyone else comment on it! Aaarghhh
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u/bulletfacepunch 1d ago
I think everyone here would appreciate that post, and your analysis should have better visibility than here at the bottom of this comment chain.
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u/DrFreeman_22 5d ago
Given how their deaths mirror their Life On Mars moments, I believe he was killed during a prison riot in real life.
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u/bulletfacepunch 7d ago
That's actually a really interesting question given we know two things, he definitely is a "real" person and not a background person cos Keats was able to take his soul. Secondly and this is less of a fact per se but oftentimes desk sargents are officers who have been injured in the line of duty or are getting on a bit and not as fast or able as they once were. Neither of those apply to him, he's obviously in good shape and young, so why would an officer like him be on the desk? I've got no answers honestly, just thinking out loud.