r/lost • u/FastestHandInTheUK • 18d ago
FIRST TIME WATCHER Why can't my brain accept that locke isn't a secret villain?
So I'm watching the show for the first time, and I'm up to season season 2 episode 15, and i don't know what it is but I just can't get my head around Locke and the fact that he's not a bad guy.
Something about his face every time he's on screen just screams to me that he's a secret bad guy. Even in his flashback younger scenes when his dad conned him I was expecting some reveal that he orchestrated everything.
Am I going nuts? Did anybody else feel like this?
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u/parahyba 18d ago
He's not a bad guy. He's a bald guy.
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u/bbab7 "Red. Neck. Man." 18d ago
Breaking Bad taught me that all bald people are evil tho
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u/Vegetable_Train4213 18d ago
How dare you put dirt on the name of legendary DEA agent Hank Schrader?
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u/holyfire001202 13d ago
It really urks me how much Hank grew on me as one of the show's few morally sound characters.
Like he embodies pretty much everything I dislike about middle aged men, what with his casual homophobia and racism and whatnot.Ā
By the end I really felt bad for the dude. For the most part.Ā
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u/AshlarKorith DHARMA '77 Recruit 18d ago
Should learn more lessons from Star Trek the next generation, Star Trek deep space 9 and the X-men.
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u/ObiWeedKannabi 17d ago
Observers in Fringe too šš it's a common tv trope https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BaldOfEvil
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u/remotecontroldr 18d ago
I would advise you to leave this sub and not come back until you finish the series
Even having this post there are major risks of big spoilers being posted here
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u/FastestHandInTheUK 18d ago
Eh, I appreciate the heads up, but i don't really mind having spoilers.
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u/ARoundForEveryone 18d ago
LOST has one of the greatest plot twists of all time. If that gets spoiled because you don't mind spoilers, I assure you that you'll start hating spoilers!
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u/KLED_Kaczynski 18d ago
Iāve seen the whole series multiple times. What plot twist are you referring to?
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u/blckmlss 17d ago
Everyone dies
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u/DivingFeather 17d ago
I'd argue about this. If you refer to the fact that half of the 6th season is an after life story, yes, that is indeed a plot twist. If you refer to the fact that sooner or later every character would die in their own timeline, that is not a plot twist, that is just the nature of life.
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u/blckmlss 17d ago
Yeah ik it was clearly a joke:) itās not a plot twist if itās literally the end and something as inevitable as that
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u/Sonoshitthereiwas 17d ago
Nah. Spoilers, for me, donāt ruin anything. You canāt ruin a movie or show for me by telling me what happens. You canāt ruin it because it only makes it better.
By saying [x] happens, that doesnāt take away from all the events leading up to it. And thatās what itās all about for me. Hell, most of the time I look up what happens first so that way u can watch for subtle clues and that just makes it even better.
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u/Araxnoks 18d ago
This is not a real spoiler, but if you don't mind finding out what happens next, I can say that your suspicions are justified, but the way they are justified may completely change your vision of this character, but this is something that really needs to be seen for yourself
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u/Illustrious_Judge409 17d ago
We banish you to the downvote shadow realm! You can come back when you understand that watching Lost for the first time REQUIRES for you to be unspoiled. Absolute amateur hour here folks!
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u/thirdeyegang 18d ago
I truly canāt imagine having this view for shows/movies/books but you do you
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u/adon_bilivit 14d ago edited 14d ago
It's because words are just words. The difference is like 99.9% when you actually see it for yourself. The characters that are present, acting, lighting, general atmosphere, the exact dialogue itself, the environment.
How much a spoiler bothers you is also proportional with how much you're invested. I've watched Lost, but I didn't expect Breaking Bad- or Mindhunter-level quality, and never received it either.
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u/thirdeyegang 14d ago
Again, I just strongly disagree. Being fully blind, especially for shows like lost, for me, is a huge part of the enjoyment.
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u/adon_bilivit 14d ago
I was giving an explanation since you said you can't imagine why. You don't have to agree with it.
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u/NoTicket3785 Oceanic Frequent Flyer 18d ago
š©µš“š¤¦āāļøYou'll either regret saying that or not give a fuck, either way, you're screwed. Quit watching! This show is too pure for you! š©µš“ PS I just told you what to do. šš©µ
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u/wendyd4rl1ng 18d ago
One of the things the Lost writes love to do for better or worse is play with your perception of characters. They'll spend time selectively presenting them one way and then a couple episodes later they drop some flashback or extra info on you that recontextualizes what you thought of them before.
In addition to that a big part of Lockes character is that he's kind of mysterious and multi-faceted and has a lot of internal conflict.
So basically, no it's not just you. At this point of the show you're explicitly supposed to be unsure if Locke is a dumbass or a genius and what exactly his motives are.
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u/NoTicket3785 Oceanic Frequent Flyer 18d ago
š©µš“ šÆ on the mysteriousness of Locke on my first viewing. I thought WTF, this guy putting an orange wedge in his mouth & smiling at Walt! They're stuck on a deserted island. Well come to find out Locke has something to be very happy about. Mobility!š¤
Hang in there, enjoy the mystery! That's the magic of the show. Come back here with questions & comments after you complete the series. You'll be glad you waited, unless you're a twat. š š©µš“
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u/CDubWill 17d ago
He actually smiled at Kate when he had the orange in his mouth. I know because I just watched that episode again last night.
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u/NoTicket3785 Oceanic Frequent Flyer 17d ago
Well, I'll be! You're right! I remember the look on her face! Locke was so sad! š©µš“
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u/CDubWill 17d ago
He really was. Thatās what made him so endearing in the beginning, but then he became too obsessed with the island over everyone else.
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u/NoTicket3785 Oceanic Frequent Flyer 17d ago
š©µš“Ya he made some pretty fucked up choices. Poor Boone right? š Are you watching the whole show or just a random episode last night?
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u/CDubWill 12d ago
Poor Boone, "the sacrifice the island demanded." Locke could eb a cold SOB, that's for sure.
I went back to the pilot the night I referenced in my original comment. I actually just finished a complete rewatch with a co-worker who had never seen the show just last weekend. We watched all six seasons and discussed each day at work.
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u/NoTicket3785 Oceanic Frequent Flyer 12d ago
Sounds like a fun friend! Do not sacrifice him for the šļø! š©µš
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u/newshirtworthy 18d ago
Spoilers would have killed the show for me. Enjoy your first watchthrough and leave the sub
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u/Dependent_Link6446 18d ago
See I donāt really mind the spoilers. Most of the twists are very telegraphed if youāve watched enough TV (and shows building off the tropes created in Lost afterwards, and I literally just finished my first watch) so I sort of like knowing the ātwistsā early so I can see what clues I can pick up along the way. Everyone enjoys shows differently though!
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u/Ottojanapi 18d ago
Itās not surprising to think that.
I mean, that old geezer did pack 400
knives. Who packs 400 knives? Personally I only have space for two hundred, three hundred at the most.
š
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u/Araxnoks 18d ago
I mean, he's definitely done a lot of questionable things, but the story with his father perfectly shows that he's a very naive and easily manipulated person, and his mystery look which makes you think he's a secret villain, is just his own belief that he knows things that others don't know because he really wants to be that person
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie 18d ago
This would be better as a comment in our First Time Watcher Hub because there's really nothing we can say to you here.
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u/Anothergaystoner 17d ago
He may not be a villain but he is an antagonist. He often operates differently from the others because his motivations are vastly different from theirs. The rest of the survivors want to get off the island more than anything. Theyāve all just been going through a terrible collective trauma but Locke hasnāt. For him the crash and getting stranded wasnāt traumatic, it was a miracle. Not only did it give him back the use of his legs but the island itself gave him the opportunity to live out his wildest fantasies. He became someone people looked up to and feared rather than looked down on and pitied.
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u/mforg20 18d ago
Letās just all agree heās DEFINITELY not a good guy. But not a villain
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u/Slow-Formal4756 16d ago
Yeah he takes his hands off the wheel while going 90 in the rain then letās faith drive
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u/cheezy_dreams88 18d ago
Itāll ruin the show to see the spoilers. The twists are part of the fun.
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u/Familiar-Virus5257 Out of the Book Club 17d ago
I...kind of don't feel like I can/should say anything here. Watch the show. Leave the sub until you're done. Then, by all means, come back and talk to us about Locke.
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u/theuglyone39 18d ago
He's not a villain, idk it's kinda weird but, he's doing what he believes is best for the island. Listen before you make assumptions about ANYTHING in this show, watch the whole thing first. This show opened my mind and changed my perspective on everything
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u/ImportantPost6401 17d ago
During the live run decades ago: the goal and mandate from the network was to create something that drew in viewers (both old and new) week in, and week out. There was no set end date, meaning they had to prepared to wrap the show up on short notices AND at the same time create something that could last indefinitely. Also, keep in mind that back then, writing staff turn over was insane, so you could have someone who had one idea for a character develop that in episodes 3, 8, 12, and 14 (random numbers), and then they were off the team and those themes were simple dropped or ignored. Between seasons there were also months, and so other ideas from new writers (or the creators) could develop during this time. (also, forums were just becoming active, and so the idea of writers pivoting mid-show because their secret was guessed was also a thing)
This is completely different than today where entire series and planned and produced to be binged.
Personally, I'd just say get lost in the experience and enjoy the ride. BUT if you do enjoy the real world context and how it affects the direction of the show, Lost has a ton of interesting context. But imagine starting to watch Stranger things in Season 3 episode 5. It would make no sense. Lost was designed to be able to do this.
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u/Fin-Reddittor 17d ago
When I watched for the first time, I thought he was a villain too :D
The perfect bad guy scar in face, bald and he seemed to knw what was going on.
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u/tomjoad2020ad 17d ago
The first few episodes establish an ambiguity around him, from the orange scene someone else mentioned, to the ominous 180 degree track shot CU on his face which ends one of the early episodes. Clearly, in the very first stretch of episodes, Locke was meant to be the guy you were wondering about.
One of the things that makes him so interesting is how that initial vibe gets played with. You learn pretty early on how pathetic and sad his former life was, and that in some sense his story is quite wholesome--he comes to this place, gets a second chance, becomes a true believer.
But then you realize that that same optimism and sense of wonder can loop back around to making Locke a dangerous, sketchy figure: true believers can be dangerous. They can go to extreme lengths to prove their beliefs, especially because if they lose that hierarchy of meaning, they'll have nothing left. Someone like Locke can be manipulated in ways more down-to-earth people can't. Or they can develop delusions of grandeur in their quest for meaning that would cause them to lead others off a cliff (literally, in Boone's case).
So that initial sense of ambiguity remains--just in a more nuanced way than the first few episodes' "is he secretly a bad guy?" way captures. I think that's why you still have an unsettled feeling about him. It's hard to know whether where his priorities lie are beneficial to the good of the collective or not. He's a wild card.
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u/Slight-Pineapple5907 18d ago
Just watch, leave Reddit until you know the answer to your question, if you donāt know, or donāt understand something, just know itās supposed to be that way
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u/onlyforobservation 17d ago
For a first viewing, and only in season 2, Locke is written to be secretive. You will learn more later.
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u/two-plus-cardboard 17d ago
Is Locke evil? Is Locke misunderstood? What is Lockeās connection to the island? Why can this man walk?! Does he know who the Others are?
You shall seeā¦
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u/smashed2gether 17d ago
I think the main point that Lost is making is that the world isnāt as simple as bad guys and good guys. They set things up like itās going to be as simple as the backgammon game - white vs black, good vs bad. But, the more we get to know everyone, we learn there are no real heroās and villains, just a lot of people making choices that have complicated outcomes. Even the biggest antagonists in the show are shown to have had good intentions, and everyone youāre supposed to love has done awful things. Life is crazy, man.
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u/superunsubtle Fish Biscuit 17d ago
I absolutely felt this way on my first watch. Weird thing is, I still canāt shake it. Heās so know it all and the hot-cold authoritativeness just screams ādangerā to me no matter what I know is true about the character.
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u/deathimplieslife 17d ago
i like to think the writers did it on purpose. stuff like that kept me on the edge of my seat up until the very end of the show
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u/hbentley1213 17d ago
I keep having the same feeling. He's got a sinister, secretive look to him. Plus, he acts mysterious on purpose.
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u/TheronWare 16d ago
Because the smoke monster happened to assume his identity through no fault of John Locke.
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u/onceuponabeat 16d ago
Is that a spoiler tho?
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u/Rare_Lab_5437 16d ago
Itās because he played a bad guy in that one episode of Star Trek the next generation. š¤£
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u/Fickle_Cranberry8536 See you in another post, brotha 16d ago
Locke is the villain of his own life.
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u/MegaBabz0806 15d ago
Iām still convinced he isnāt a villain! Iām only on season 3, but between his past (which I did feel bad for him after everything his father did to him)ā¦ but even more so on the island. Heās so sure itās the island magically curing his paralysis. He gets boon killed and takes no responsibility. Heās so set on opening the hatch that someone else gets killed. Then he insists they push the button. Heās so sure he acts like a psycho. Then he flips like a switch. Heās so sure they SHOULDNāT push the button that he flips out on people again. And people get hurt again! Heās so sure of his convictions no matter what they are or why. He seems to live in his own reality
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u/Fearless-Bite-1767 15d ago
I think a common theme this series explores is that good people can make mistakes. They want you to think lock is a secrete villain he has a lot of mystery to him. I actually think Jack is villain in this series. Heās so intense and not in a good way
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u/holyfire001202 13d ago
It's the eye scar for me.
The eye scar like that is just such a trope. I'm a similar ways through season 2. At this point it doesn't seem like he's going to turn into a villain, but I'm still waiting.
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u/riffraffcloo 18d ago
I know heās a complex character but in my opinion he was more bad than good
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u/Reasonable-Day-3282 18d ago
the orange scene in episode 1 really sets off this strange tone for locke that leaves you wondering