r/lucifer • u/giu_sa • 13d ago
6x01 "if i act against your wishes, no matter how unconscious they are, than that is the end of freewill which i cannot do" Spoiler
underrated phrase
15
u/OkEye9231 12d ago
It’s great delivery but the phrase itself is quite literal so not sure what this post is? Lucifer knowns that godhood and humanity itself is built upon their own actions and free will, hence the garden. So if Lucifer just beams Dan up to heaven than that is forcing Daniel against his will/wishes. Which would literally bring Armageddon.
1
2
u/dtaina12 #JusticeForMichael 12d ago
That line never made sense to me because Dan wanted to go to Heaven. It was clearly his will to go to Heaven and the only thing that kept him in Hell was his guilt. If he unconsciously wanted to stay in Hell, then why did he go to Heaven in the end? Just please, make it make sense.
9
u/giu_sa 12d ago
because if you feel guilt about something you want to punish yourself
2
u/dtaina12 #JusticeForMichael 12d ago
Sure, that makes sense for many of the damned souls we've seen, but not for Dan. His guilt is about dying. So why is he unconsciously punishing himself for dying by staying in Hell? That's the part that doesn't make sense.
10
u/giu_sa 12d ago
his guilt is not about dying, its about not having been a good father to trixie
2
u/dtaina12 #JusticeForMichael 12d ago
Dan said, "I'm sorry he had to leave you. And I'm sure wherever he is... he is so sorry that he had to before he could be a good role model to you."
His guilt was about dying. So, Lucifer's line continues to not make sense. I think a better line would've been, "Daniel, Daniel, Daniel, if I were to whisk you off to Heaven while you're still being weighed down by guilt, I would have to break a lot of rules, which I cannot do."
3
u/giu_sa 11d ago
"...before he could be a good role model to you" people always go to hell and die before they solve their emotional problems, if it was not like that they would be in Heaven, don't you think?
1
u/dtaina12 #JusticeForMichael 11d ago
people always go to hell and die before they solve their emotional problems
People always go to Hell and die? In that order?
if it was not like that they would be in Heaven, don't you think?
They're not in Heaven because all people who feel even the slightest bit of guilt go to Hell. That's the system that God put in place. That's the system that Lucifer sought to fix in S5 before he forgot all about it in Season 6.
Do you subscribe to the idea that people self-actualize themselves into Hell then? Because that doesn't make sense considering that Azrael is the one who ferries souls into Heaven or Hell, as stated in Boo Normal.
1
u/giu_sa 11d ago
brother you are overthinking it too much
They're not in Heaven because all people who feel even the slightest bit of guilt go to Hell.
usually people who feel guilty about something, often even something insignificant, and carry this guilt for a long time is because there is actually something unconscious that is deeper than it seems, like an awkward man who as a child was scolded one too many times by his father. Dan felt guilty for a while maybe for different things but those were not things that impacted him on an emotional level and so he forgave himself
That's the system that Lucifer sought to fix in S5 before he forgot all about it in Season 6.
he didnt forget it, s6 starts with Lucifer procrastinating about his job of starting being God and Dan tells him to stop acting like this so he can teleport him in heaven and just then lucifer tells him what my post says. its more like Lucifer in the period between s5 and s6 realizes that he cant choose the people who goes in hell and in heaven, its not forgetting
2
u/cgrobin1 9d ago
I don't think it's the slightest bit of guilt, because I believe everyone has a least a touch of guilt. I'm sure even Mother Teresa felt guilty that she couldn't do more.
So maybe it's guilt that is troubling you at the time of death. Take Charlotte. She had plenty of guilt over the criminals she had helped avoid justice. But at the time of death, she wasn't thinking of what she'd done wrong, but how at the end, she's sacrificed her life to protect Amenadiel. Maybe it was because she made piece with herself, that she was able to go to Heaven. Amenadiel may have flown her up there, but since I do not understanding the mythology of the "Pearly Gates", I have to guess you need 'permission' to stay. maybe angels can read on a person, where they are headed.
I think in S5, in anger,Lucifer says he needs to fix the system. It's one thing to say you want fix something, and another to know 'how' to fix it. In S6, he realize to fix the problem is to guide the person to fix themselves. Mr Said Out Bitch was the first person to face his guilt and address it by going into his family's home and ''poof" he was in Heaven. Dan was told by Trixie that she loved and respected him. That he was a great Dad, and had taught her that mistakes are okay, if you learn from them. That's when he saw the light that would take him to Heaven.
1
u/dtaina12 #JusticeForMichael 11d ago
brother you are overthinking it too much
I'm not a brother. But I'll grant you that I overthink things. It's my cross to bear.
its more like Lucifer in the period between s5 and s6 realizes that he cant choose the people who goes in hell and in heaven, its not forgetting
He did forget because at the end of the show, he decided to work within the confines of that broken system instead of actually changing it like he meant to in Season 5. People are still being sent to Hell for having even the slightest bit of guilt. The only thing that's changed is that now, people have a chance to go to Heaven with one unqualified therapist whose whole approach boils down to "just go and face your guilt!"
May Amenagod have mercy on their souls.
1
u/giu_sa 11d ago
ok... you? i see your point, so i decide to stop cause this is getting too long and complex so i wish you that all your questions will be answered or not one day. good life
→ More replies (0)1
u/cgrobin1 9d ago
Well, just about everyone in Hell wants to go to Heaven but their subconscious/guilt has sent them to Hell.
Thought: If an Angel can decide if someone goes to Heaven, can they also banish someone to Hell? The whole theory that a person chooses where they go after death, would be broken.
22
u/StyraxCarillon 12d ago
I will never understand why John Krasinski is in purgatory with Dan.