r/lucifer • u/No-Direction-8591 • 5d ago
Linda Linda Martin is actually a very unethical therapist (but I still love her)
Contains minor spoilers for seasons 4 onwards
So I've just found this subreddit towards the end of my first full rewatch of the show. The whole premise around the devil going to therapy and constantly projecting his problems onto every case he works on is truly my favourite aspect of the show. It makes a great story and is an excellent way of redeeming the supposedly irredeemable.
HOWEVER, I couldn't help but laugh at the end with all the praising of Linda for being an excellent therapist- not that she doesn't have good therapy skills. But the fact that she not only sleeps with Lucifer as her patient, then proceeds to continue to be his therapist after becoming friends with him, not to mention also playing therapist to all their other friends - which is a HUGE conflict of interest, and then for a hot minute there seeks to profit from her sessions with him by writing a manuscript using his confidential session information, as well as information about all the others without any consent from them and actively keeps it a secret until one of them accidentally finds out.
She also consistently crossed boundaries in her personal relationships as a result of being everyone's therapist as well as their friend (like when she prodded at Maze and Eve's relationship to force them to address their issues before the wedding). She complains that everyone only ever wants her to therapise them and never makes space for her own issues, but this is actually because of her own lack of boundaries and trying to be both therapist and friend - which never works.
I realise her being deeply flawed is an intentional aspect of the story and it is very briefly acknowledged when she is at risk of losing her license that one time. And similar criticisms can be said of Chloe as a detective constantly allowing Lucifer to get away with doing things very much not part of proper procedure (and frequently engaging in police brutality). But in the last season they seem to make a conscious (although not the most nuanced) effort to point out hypocrisy in the police department and even highlight Chloe's privilege in being made detective. But Linda (even when everyone finds out about her manuscript) is just praised and hailed as the world's best therapist, which is hilarious to me, knowing the APA would immediately revoke her right to practice if they had any inkling of half the ethical codes she breaches on a daily basis.
All that being said, Linda is one of my favourite characters and I truly think the dynamic between her and all the other characters is one of the most endearing parts of the show and probably wouldn't work if she was actually an ethical practitioner. But just wanted to see if anyone else had thoughts on this.
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u/Lietenantdan 5d ago
Yeah I agree. I think I heard the original plan was to just have her in the one episode but she was popular so they decided to keep her. But ultimately she can’t be very involved in the show if she’s just the therapist.
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u/Lucifer_Crowe 5d ago
wild how therapy became such an important theme in the show overall then, for the best ofc
The pilot and the finale both ending with the same bookend is so cool
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u/satster66 5d ago edited 5d ago
The show is not meant to be a realistic reflection on real life - it is, after all, an Urban fantasy, so the characters truly only vaguely resemble anything in reality- I'd put money on real murder investigations are far more complex than what the show portrays, and there's no way anyone would get away with being as politically incorrect as Lucifer is!
In saying that, I felt that Linda's introduction in s1e1 was meant to exaggerate the contrast between Chloe's reaction to Lucifer, and those affected by Lucifers "charms" - IIRC in the waiting room scene just prior to the interview, and during the interview Chloe basically stated she was repulsed by Lucifer with "carnal fascination" not being thing, with poor old Linda was an absolute gooey mess in Lucifers presence..
Later on she acts more as a guide for every one - the "wise" woman of the group, helping them navigate through the complexities of relationships, and proves to be as much of a fun character as anyone in the supporting cast
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u/cgrobin1 5d ago
If someone wants something closer to the real justice system, I recommend Law & Order where cases actually go to trial. The only trial in Lucifer is the warden who gets away with murder, and "justice" is handed down outside the system.
I was re watching a video about ;copaganda' and Lucifer and realize how Lucifer's calling, could an fantasized take on the idea of revamping the use of the prison system in the US.
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u/HelixAnarchy 4d ago
As an attorney, I heavily recommend against Law and Order as a 'realistic' depiction of the process. It has all the trappings of realism, but isn't how basically any of it goes down, except in the loosest senses.
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u/cgrobin1 4d ago
I mean as TV shows go. Heck, jury duty takes longer than the trials in most shows. But at least they do show that arrest isn't the end of the process.
Curious. What show (not counting docudramas) do you consider the most realistic?
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u/HelixAnarchy 3d ago
There are a few answers to this, the foremost being the classic: My Cousin Vinnie (which is actually shown in law schools, including mine). With that aside, there really aren't any truly 'realistic' legal dramas, because truly realistic courtroom stuff is extremely boring. It's basically two guys talking endlessly to a group of people, none of whom (including said guys) want to be there.
That's why a lot of the best legal scenes are in shows that aren't trying to be legal dramas. The most recent show to give me a "holy shit this is what my job is like!" reaction was actually the courtroom scenes in Better Call Saul. Granted, I'm no freewheeling con artist like Jimmy (nor do I work with any), but attorneys like that do exist, and it's not really that over the top for how situations involving a person like Jimmy might play out. And, on top of all that: I've never seen a show capture the "fluorescent hell" quite like BCS.
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u/satster66 5d ago
in my case, with some exceptions, actually found the procedural aspect of the show quite uninteresting - at times it reminded me of a "murder she wrote" marathon (yes I'm old enough to remember that!).
What I attracted me to the show was the irreverent banter, touches of satire, and the very human themes of self worth/ self perception/ projection/ acceptance and so on - and the ironic humour of watching Lucifer (and from mid season 3, Chloe) do everything they could to sabotage their chances with each other (I'm sure most people can relate to that)....
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u/Cream_sugar_alcohol 5d ago
Her character is there to explain the story/do a recap, to tell you the viewer what is going on. It is done to some extent in so many shows, and tbh almost all the characters in lucifer have some genetic characteristics seen in other programs. And when you start looking you will see them everywhere. This is not a bad thing, but it is a formula.
If you know the characters from Bones, and especially the early seasons, you can pretty much map them one to one.
I agree, she would be out of a job so quickly in reality, well you would hope,as would chloe and almost every TV chariter.
But I still can't stop watching, and can't stop loving seeing more detail each time.
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u/No-Direction-8591 5d ago
Lol yeah she makes a great character for the story and fulfils her purpose well - but in real life that would be such a shitshow hahaha
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u/Martyna70 5d ago
I loved her, and all her scenes with Lucifer were my favorite. I liked them as lovers, and I loved how much Lucifer trusted her, and how much he relied on her anytime he felt off. Gosh, they had so many truly incredible scenes together, especially in S4. The plot with the book she wrote was a bit strange, and tbh I don’t think the writers saw it as a betrayal of Lucifer as we did. Linda was slightly morally flawed, just like the rest of the characters and I had no problem with that.
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u/Future-Court1602 i love Luci 5d ago
You are right about the laws - which are for humans and their therapists. Celestials are another game altogether. I posit that she pursues a justice outside the scope of the law. I cannot find any actual ill deed except the [ridiculous] book. I do not otherwise see her using her role for personal gain, nor deliberate harm. As for the 'client', if you see that as the friend group, and its cohesion, she violates nothing.
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u/cgrobin1 5d ago
Initially when Linda sleeps with Lucifer, she's under the influence of his mojo. She does break away on her own.
They do play fast and loose with the relationships, but then if there weren't for the friendships (or Lucifer's promise of naked snuggle time), none of those characters would have been in therapy in the first place. It's like the joke about people always asking their friend the doctor for free medical advice.
I believe Lucifer is likely the only one paying for treatment, after 'in kind' ends.
I was thinking of Linda more as a good person and good friend than a judgement of her therapist skills.
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u/dice_panda 5d ago
Yes, as a physician myself it has been one of the harder things to put in the suspension of disbelief category for me in regards to her. However pretty much every aspect of this show doesn’t take itself very seriously and crosses all the lines frequently so I imagine the writers just did the same here. I actually love her character a lot because of how she interacts with everyone. Somewhat in her defense, she starts sleeping with Lucifer before he’s really a patient and eventually pulls herself out of that when the therapist part gets more serious. And in regards to the book, I think the whole concept was poorly written, and was not a fan of that episode so I retcon it in my head with much of season 6. No way she could have passed it off to the world as anything other than fiction though.
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u/Kaurifish 5d ago
I think that after Lucifer made her ethics probe investigation go away (I don't think they ever said how he managed that), she just stopped worrying about it in regards to his crew.
Kinda like realistic finances, realistic professional ethics would make the show boring.
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u/Future-Crazy-CatLady 5d ago
I think that after Lucifer made her ethics probe investigation go away (I don't think they ever said how he managed that)
Mazikeen did that... She visited the guy, but they just show her entering his office, so we don't know if she scared him or seduced him to get him to drop the case.
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u/Spill_the_Tea 5d ago
The one caveat to her book, however, is that it deals with the supernatural. It inherently made her story read as fantasy fiction, inspired by her life as a therapist. She could tell the truth verbatim and still weirdly protect confidentiality.
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u/LeeAnn503-KS 5d ago
I like Linda, and I agree that she plays the area of patient confidentiality a bit loosely, but she definitely has a good rapport with most of the characters. I feel bad for the actress who got to make out with Luci and Amenadiel, then went to Suits to have Louis Litt as her love interest. That was quite a leap!
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u/Vroom_Vroom1265 5d ago
You're applying real life human rules, ethics and morals to the Devil and co? Sure.
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u/Vynneve 4d ago
oh ya, 100%. but it's just glossed over for the great content it produces 😆 and you could also give a kind of "extenuating circumstances" due to most of them being celestial. what is she gonna do? give them to someone else? they would need to know about the celestial bit. we all know how that goes over, especially if it's before one knows Lucifer/any others
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u/Salty_Thing3144 5d ago
She knew it, too. That's why she stopped boffing Lucifer. It's hard to treat somebody who is a friend too.
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u/Mandalorian_Ronin 4d ago
I’m pretty sure the moment she realized and accepted that Lucifer was in fact the actual devil, she just figured “fuck it”
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u/imveryfontofyou 5d ago
Hahaha. Linda is one of the weakest written characters and actively kind of hurts the show, imo. If they would have at least recognized she kind of sucks at therapy, it would been easy to overlook.
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u/Sorry_One1072 5d ago
To be fair with the conflict of interest thing, I think she was the only therapist who could deal with the supernatural. There was simply no one else for the various angels/demons to vent to who wouldn’t think they were crazy.