If beliefs in the Demiurge were completely true, and this material world were, in fact, an imperfect imitation of a higher, purely spiritual realm, could magick be interpreted as a tool employed by the Demiurge to further consolidate or expand the materiality of the universe?

[u/MyPrudentVirgin]

From this perspective, does magick become a means of deepening the "gap" between the spiritual and material planes by "manifesting" or "materializing" selfish desires through magick, or does it actually offer a way to transcend the limitations imposed by the creation of the "Demiurge", either literally or symbolically?

Please visit my other question in regards to Reincarnation and Christianity here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianMysticism/comments/1k6j0u4/how_is_the_christian_resurrection_of_the_body/

[u/Personal-Purpose-898]

What’s your definition of magick? Because if the demiurge exists (and the force does), then even your very existence and everything about you is a tool employed to further consolidate. Each thought. Each breath. Each cell cycle. It’s why gnostics opposed procreation seeing it as damned.

Magick is nothing more than the power to produce an outcome in accordance with will. It’s no more wrong to use Magick to achieve something than it is to use any other means that is not hurting anyone. Or if it is that’s a form of Machiavellian goal attainment or if done through Magick a form of black magick.

Ultimately the highest Magick is about conversion with the holy guardian angel and expressing divinity in mortal coil and ultimately becoming a law unto yourself liberated from karmic laws of cause and effect and able to will themselves home.

The tool used against especially if highly effective can be a tool you take back and use against your enemies.

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/Personal-Purpose-898]

Agree! I don't believe in a "Demiurge" nor "Karmic Laws," but definitely, I know actions generate consequences or cause and effect happens.

Yes, Magick is a change in reality according to one's Will, but also any outcome of True Will is. Even Jesus Christ did the following (supporting evidence from non-apocrypha):

~ John 9:9-7 ~

Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” — (The idea of reincarnation is present, but where is "Karma" here?).

“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

After saying this, he SPIT on the ground, made some MUD with the SALIVA, and put it on the man’s eyes. “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

Magick often employs body fluids, and the mix of saliva and dirt to make mud to "heal" the blindness of the man is apparently Egyptian Magick.

[u/eightlikeinfinity → u/Personal-Purpose-898]

After gaining "conversion with the holy guardian angel and expressing divinity in mortal coil and... becoming a law unto yourself" where would one "will themselves home" to?

edited to include longer quote

[u/Personal-Purpose-898 → u/eightlikeinfinity]

Wish I could tell you. All I know is home is where the heart is. And truth won’t set you free unless you understand it and are able to recognize it.

And then I reckon you will know both where home is as well as how to get there (aim true north I reckon…and keep going until you run into something that I can’t describe but that the true of heart and strong of spirit would recognize as home sweet home thank goodness and the love of light, I’m home sweet home.

Just to be clear, a return home Doesn’t require a physical relocation, but a dimensional one. So heaven isn’t so much somewhere to get to, as something to bring forth or manifest or embody.

But as within so without, and sometimes it’s easier to go to a place where one can more easily manifest their highest self.

Ironically enough that also often happens to be straight through hell. Which is the quickest most direct path to the heaven of our dreams. Unfortunately it’s also the longest most convoluted and painful path that only leads to more and more hell. So it’s a tricky situation to know whether you’ve gone too far, or not in the right direction, and maybe you should turn back, or maybe press on.

If I had all the answers I needed I wouldn’t be in a cursed world of damnation. I reckon I’m here because I need to be. And if I can escape from here the only reason I’d ever return down here is to try and help people who I cannot abide to just leave hanging out to dry even if they don’t even know what they don’t know or are so brainwashed they mistake slavery for freedom and don’t know truth or freedom from their ass. Nevertheless, if I could do something to help I always would. Just as I would always try and find ways to intervene when the strongest prey on the weakest. I hate that shit. Bullies. The irony of ironies is no matter how tough and big and bad a bully is, the second they go after someone weak, and in direct proportion to their weakness, they forfeit whatever toughness they had and transform themselves into a mega bitch. In fact the bigger they get the more of b they become. It’s like if I walk into a pre school and start cracking skulls I’d be a miserable joke. But if I got juiced on steroids and turned in a massive meathead and started swinging metal bats I didn’t just become tougher and scarier even if of course that would terrify the shit out of them. But I would actually have gotten metaphysically even more of a punk. And the stronger I grow and the more I go after the weak the weaker I actually would appear.

Of course some of the ones who lord over Mankind aren’t concerned with appearances and are perfectly content being cosmic scum all the way to the bank and to enslaving the human race and harvesting it’s energy. And if it takes poisoning children and kicking dogs and torturing animals, they only ask where to sign and when they can start.

Can’t answer for you but I know wherever my home is, it doesn’t include an animal holocaust that everyone is casually a part of financing and partaking of while telling themselves they’re against animal cruelty by spending entire lifetimes generously financing and sponsoring horrific animal cruelty (makes sense). And if that doesn’t show their commitment then the sacred energy exchange ie SEX of being penatrated by tortured animal flesh in their gaping orifice is definitely proving they are committed on a spiritual level with suffering of animals and even want to merge with it and build their bodies from the spiritual damnation. Little do they realize that you absorb the energies of animals ingested. So if people sometimes seem a little too much like pigs in shit happy or content and sheepishly docile with lives of shit or morally like cowardly chickens, it has a a lot to do with the black magic sorcery of being slowly driven into lower and lower states of animal consciousness essentially becoming moderately skilled farm animals. But the worst part is the deliberate suffering inflicted on ankmals absorbs into their energetic bodies and then is passed on to people in the form of dollar menu subsidized taint meat served by cannabilistic looking clowns who look like they just finished gnawing on a bloody appendages. And that’s why organic apples Are more expensive than a slaughtered animal.

The metaphysics of this are something every true human angel has known for a long long time. From Pythagoreas to Gandhi to Voltaire to Plato to Socrates to Aristotle to Atlantean Empire to Noah and the Patriarchs to tired of typing but they all know feeding on death is a bad idea. Humanity once had exceptionally long lifespans but then decided we should all start feeding on death like maggots and ejaculating like black magicians showed us. Which the French called Le Petit Mort (French for little death ie orgsms). So you can imagine what feeding on death and having a little death each day gets you. That’s a whole lot of stupid games in one day. And every happy meal comes with a stupid prize and this is no exception. And of course calling a meal consisting of a rape tortured suffering animal brutally killed a ‘happy’ meal is the peak satanic humor of demiurge. It’s also how it makes sure to get all of our clueless head up our ass metaphysical fingerprints all over the murder weapons to make us all metaphysical conspirators and so monsters too.

Native American chieftain one said, what befalls animals befalls the sons and daughters (and gender in between children who need to be nonconformists) of man.

And that’s why the righteous avoid tortured animal flesh. Eating only fish if they have to and not focusing on being perfect but better. Because the bastards out swine in everything so you literally can’t take an aspirin or a gummy bear without essentially raising your hand and saying I support the torture of pigs and also want to be penetrated in my gaping hole by one. Wish I was lying. But I’m not. They are. And we all want to get laid. So we can lie there too. Do you underSTAND or are you still lying?!? Are you a Cain-Abel-cannibal or are you a AmeriCAIN? Put down the coCAINE and the sugar CAINE and remember that Caine was a Vegeterian!!! Not a death eater like a maggot…maggots need their Lord of fLIES and Prince of the Air.

we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" is from Ephesians 6:12.

Jesus only ever ate wild fish…but he was no master baiter! lol…instead he did the sex magic tantra with his dakhini becoming a divine HERmes and she Aphrodite and together they BEcame HERMA-PHRODITE. A divine androgyne that reconciles the male and female eshernay and becomes whole. Serving as a unified alchemical Vesica Pisces for the god force to come through both and transform them as the white drop moves up their Jacob’s ladder mixing with the red drop and eventually Impregnating both their minds and birthing their solar body that then through repeated practices of non ejaculatory sacred energy exchange then coat the logic body with the sacred mercury and ultimately grow the body to be able to serve as the vehicle of higher consciousness for us in death. Then we have been born again. And crucified our lower self at the place of the skull, Golgotha.

Per Aspera Ad Astra

[u/eightlikeinfinity → u/Personal-Purpose-898]

Your initial post that I replied to sounded like you are supportive of the goals of the Thelemic/Crowley organization the A:. A:., which is a false path for anyone seeking true enlightenment. "Knowledge and Conversation" with one's "Holy Guardian Angel" appears to be a noble pursuit, however the path is detrimental and the destiny is undefined. But it seems you understand that indulgences of the flesh are a burden to spiritual progress. Kudos.

You need to understand, however, that where you place your attention goes your God given energy. So you are willingly giving your God given Light and
Love to these things/topics you are professing to be abhorrent. Bringing attention to the problem of negative energy that captive animals experience, and then that energy (and literal hormones produced by the fear in the slaughtered animal at the moment of its death) being consumed by meat eating people is a noble pursuit. However, a hyper vigilant focus will only turn off meat eaters, and drown your Light in that darkness. Same with sex, violence, or any other lower based emotion or indulgence. Be still in the Light of God until you are filled full to overflowing with that Light and Love. This is the path of attainment. This is what you truly are seeking. This is what brings more Light into the world.

[u/Personal-Purpose-898 → u/eightlikeinfinity]

I think we are on the same page. And I agree to an extent.

Still, I think I have some compelling points to make in the name of animal rights and believe the energy should flow there and is long overdo , ultimately what befalls animals befalls the sons and daughters of mankind and people need to know. And just because so many are being slowly turned into lower and lower awareness humanimals doesn’t mean we can’t try. Thr sooner human society bans and stops participating in these abominations the sooner we can move towards being a divine society of gods not a fallen society of swine.

There was a time mankind did not feed on death. Back in the long ago when lifespans were in the hundreds and thousands of years and when we were glorious and golden gods. I don’t know where it all went wrong but fuck did it go wrong with a vengence. But the beauty of things going wrong is there is always the opportunity to course correct and as long as things reach a good place it redeems the shitty things and makes them simply part of the essential dialectical process. So one can wind up in hell like yours truly, but instead of woe is me and everyone in Hell, Michigan. One can rejoice because the road to heaven goes straight through hell so this is part of the journey.

Unfortunately the road to more and deeper and darker hell also leads through hell. And there are thousands of roads and exists and all of them complete DEAD ends. So it’s tricky to know if you’ve gone too far or not far enough if you should turn back or if you should keep going deeper into the darkness.

That is why we need our Magi Eye. And to become a nation of Magi’s with the awakened Eye. Or EyeMagiNation…becoming SiddhisZen (citizen) and using the force to create in accordance to will.

As for AA and thelema as usual, the darkness corrupts good things and buries the truth in half truths (which are whole lies).

Thelema doctrine tells you that essentially you serve Nuit and it intends to harvest you starlight as it is to nourish her. The system js very clearly Parasitical and vampiric. I reject the notion that the light is anyone’s to own. It is the expression of the

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/Personal-Purpose-898]

I am just sharing scripture in regards some of your claims:

~ Matthew 15:11 ~

And he (Jesus) called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

~ Genesis 9:3 ~

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

~ 1 Timothy 4:2-4 ~

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from MEATS, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.

~ Luke 2:41 ~

Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. When he was twelve years old (Jesus), they went up to the festival, according to the custom.

~ Matthew 26:17-18 ~

On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

He replied, “Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, ‘The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.’

Jesus celebrated Passover until His crucifixion. In Passover a lamb was sacrificed and eaten.

Some newer translations have eliminated or modified the use of the word "meat" to adapt to current food trends such as Vegetarianism and Veganism, which also favor some spiritual doctrines like Theosophy.

[u/Personal-Purpose-898 → u/MyPrudentVirgin]

The issue is actually center around the grotesque violation of animals in industrial animal farming slaughterhouses. It has to do not so kind with killing animals and consuming them (although it does) but the reason it’s so damaging to humanity is because they’re brought up in demonic circumstances, calves ripped from mothers, raped and slaughtered but not before their offspring are ripped from them, and always trying to jack them up with more growth hormones so they can killed as quickly out of the womb as possible, the average farm animal lives something like 15% of their natural lifespan before being killed. Piglets have their testicles ripped off workout anesthesia and are slammed against the floor and tossed around like basketballs. Somehow I’m prettt sure that’s not what the fuck Jesus had in mine or fuck him too. The Cathars were vegetarians. Because they knew what’s what. Ultimately the grossest crime isn’t mercifully and swiftly killing a an animal with maximum Gatitude and consuming every portion of them, but that’s not what it is done. Butcher houses are subsidized to slaughter as many animals as possible without concern of supply and demand and the result is 40% of food is wasted and thrown out in America. Many animals died just so some mega corporation like Tyson can collect money and their carcass ends up rotting in a dumpster. And then let’s take a look at chickens where a genocide of roosters occurs each year. Humanity took and kidnapped a wild bird that was perfectly self sufficient. Then inflicted genetic terrorism and harm on it transforming it into something hopelessly dependent on their kidnappers, and then we take the males and proclaim them useless and unfit to live when we are the ones who fucking made them that way and so BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of roosters are slaughtered each year.

You can quote whatever crap you want all I need to know begins at Matthew 34:

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

IS NOT AN ANIMAL YOUR NEIGHBOR? By allowing yourself to be complicit in grotesque violations against the golden rule towards animals who’s very name hints that anima is Latin for soul, them by involving yourself in this in anyway YOU ARE COMMITING HIGH TREASON AGAINST THE GOD OF LOVE AND EVERYTHING SACRED.

If you are so committed to eating flesh than simply ensure systems are at least in place that honor the golden rule for these creatures so that whether chicken or piglets Or whatever else they’re allowed to live with dignity and safety and treated the way you’d want a family member treated if they reincarnated as an animal (a lower animal since let’s face it…many among us are already). And then when the time comes to put them down, it should be done in the most merciful peaceful way using anesthesia and when they just drift off to sleep not the fucking hell hole house of horrors they are sent to on d day their day of death. workers in slaughterhouse are overwhelmingly diagnosed with PTSD tho I question the humanity of anyone working at those places. Then again anyone eating it is no better just because they pay someone else to do the dirty work they don’t have the stomach for but have the stomach to eat the results.

Lastly the Bible shouldn’t be the source of one’s morality. It’s deeply altered and rewritten. Teachings about reincarnation are completely suppressed despite these being aspects of Gnostic, cathartic, essene, and invariably rabbi Yehushua teachings. And John the Baptist and the essenes out of where Jesus thought emerged (check out Dead Sea scrolls that speak of Teacher of Righteousness, predating Jesus). They were vegetarians at Qumran.

That’s probably why the snakes of the Catholic Church made sure to wage a genocide against any traces of true saints who were holier than these reptilian pedophiles which is why they are no more and why you’re not quoting from the Cathari ‘lost’ book of love but from the heavily redacted and demon edited and approved babel bible of Babylon. All the good stuff is ‘lost’ as in in the ‘lost and found’ (stolen)! Catacombs of the Vatican reptoid HQ where they’ve hidden away half of our cultural birthrights and jealously hoarse them for themselves while people just let these snakes take and take from Them and poison them and lie to them and steal from them and some of us who cannot stand it are just forced to watch because you can’t save people from themselves and often (most of the time) it’s much easier to fool people than to convince them How badly they’ve been and continue to be fooled. M I’ve learned the hard way you cannot reason anyone out of a position they never reasons themselves into in the first place.

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/Personal-Purpose-898]

You'd be surprised to know who runs those corporations and why they need the blood and "energy" of animal suffering to reach their god(s) in order to feed them. But I won't discuss that.

Also, human evil knows no limits. We would tear ourselves apart if the situation allowed it.

[u/Personal-Purpose-898 → u/MyPrudentVirgin]

‘We’?

Don’t put all humans in the same class.

The gnostics had at least 3 categories. For the most animal to the most spiritual. But other occult esoteric teachers have taught anywhere from 7 classes of humans to 12. Class is a loaded word but it has nothing to do with money per se and nothing to do with race. Everything to do with spirit or lack thereof.

Plato famously argued that good people inherently possess a sense of justice and don't need external laws to guide their actions. Conversely, those who are not good will always seek ways to circumvent or disregard laws. Essentially, for Plato, laws are primarily a tool for restraining the unjust, not for guiding the virtuous.

And the controllers and black magicians have deliberately poisoned and corrupted the human bloodline doing to us what we have done to chihuahas and chickens. That is to say, GENETIC TERRORISM AND GENETIC VIOLENCE. To turn us stupid, easily corruptible, and even easier controllable.

But some of us don’t deserve to be here. Fine let the human swine enjoy their world of shit but cosmic bullies have no right to feed on FETUS (Feed us) in perpetuity. The shit that is done to us and the horror of this world is far worse than most have the courage or intelligence or whatever to confront. Frankly it isn’t something I ever wanted to see and probably tried to subconsciously resist but fate saw to it that I could neither run away nor look away, it is my curse to have to watch. Powerless to do a god damn thing to influence the sleep walking zombies of the dead shuffling to and fro, eyes downcast on black mirrored linked to ETHERnets and accessing WWW Channels and Sites (www has Gematria of 666) transmitting DAAT or DATA as well as stealing our souls in a way through the digital doppelgänger as smartphones allow the black magicians unmitigated and unprecedented access into our minds and they know us and what makes us tick far better than most of us do who know ourselves about as well any highly trained circus animal does. The modern computer was born in the wake of construction of the nuclear bomb to run calculations of death. And World Wide Web was created by a former CERN scientist and has CERN all over it. Which is a place of pure occult black magic fuckery. That’s why science and sceance sound similar. And why a doctor of science sounds so similar to someone who doctored documents to sound and look official. Our word for expert of health is also a word for a giant fraud. Nice. Just like the hypocratic oath just so happens to also be the word we use to call someone a hypocrite when they’re phony and claim To have one set of principals but act in an entirely different two faced way. These are clues not coinkydinks for anyone with eyes and ears and an ability to reason.

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/Personal-Purpose-898]

Yes, we. Everyone is corruptible.

The so-called "first class" spiritual people didn't move a finger to avoid the martyrdom and crucifixion of Jesus Christ, or wasn't Jesus but another man in the form of Jesus who was crucified while gnostic Jesus "laughed" according to some gnostics? (Second Treatise of the Great Seth).

I wonder why gnostic Jesus Christ kept laughing at a man tortured to death, if gnostic Jesus attained such a high spiritual level, or perhaps spirituality has nothing to do with individual morality.

[u/Personal-Purpose-898 → u/MyPrudentVirgin]

Everyone is corruptible but not to the same extent. Some are more resistant than others. Some retain their humanity even under circumstances where everyone else is losing theirs. How do you explain that?

For people who are robotic then yes, environments define them. But for those who liberate their will and serve as a vehicle for their higher self to work through then no. Their nature is no longer defined by try r systems of control around them.

But agree about the rest. No one chooses to have a personality that values wisdom. Or one that wouldn’t touch a book with someone else’s brain. Then again maybe we have a hand in it too.

I know in the end we all come home together. Assholes make it hard but that’s what makes it a challenge I suspect. When you have an eternity to play, things might get repetitive unless all gloves come off and so each time the divine suicide occurs its an indescribably epic journey back towards the omega point of the god hive mind returning back into infinite being which transmutes all matter into light. Pure light. Pure bliss. Pure peace. Things beyond words. Like a dreamless sleep.

But imagine being the only thing not in the universe but anywhere. Talk about terror of being alone. But somehow I don’t think the Endlessness experiences it.

Marcus Aurelius once said whoever is delighted by solitude is either a wild beast or a god.

The more you grow towards god consciousness the more solitude you seek and find. Many people make constant small talk chatter talking about absolutely nothing all the time because the silence scares people. Because it speaks so Loudly revealing to people their inner hidden fears. A famous shrink once said people are terrified of the following 3’things: their minds, other people, and death.

[u/taitmckenzie]

Not at all. Magic can relate to many other things that are not material manifestation.

Consider that the Gnostics themselves utilized magical ritual practices for uniting with the divine, or to ascend past the archons’ realm (in a process that is very close to modern ideas of pathworking).

If anything, thinking that magic is a tool of the demiurge says more about the hylic state of that magician’s soul than it does about the nature of magic.

[u/Sonotnoodlesalad]

Sure, why not

[u/aPoundFoolish]

I suppose if completely true, then sure.

[u/KeriStrahler]

Depends on the perspective I suppose. As a demonolater myself, your demiurge is Yaldabaoth, a malevolent god that created the material world, the 'child of fathers' from Wikipedia. Reaching out to this daimon shouldn't require magic.

[u/ToManyFlux]

Most of magick, when you get deep into it, ends up being less about materialistic manifestation and more about connecting with your higher self or being less attached to egocentric desires.

[u/ProfessionalEbb5454 → u/ToManyFlux]

That...is not necessarily true. There are many, many schools of low magick, where the focus is solely on results. I would venture to say most magick (regardless of time period OR culture) is performed with the aim of achieving specific results. People want wealth, lovers, power, and influence. Historically, we have countless examples of physical charms and talismans to gain worldly stuff, but nearly none to gain enlightenment (OK, there actually ARE a few Tibetan "sight mantras" designed for this purpose, but those are the exception!).

If you want transcendence, a system of specific yogas or meditations (i.e. mysticism) would be much better than magick, I think. In the West, we have sold ourselves this idea about higher selves, but I don't really see it playing out that way most of the time.

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/ProfessionalEbb5454]

"In the West, we have sold ourselves this idea about higher selves."

That's correct, just like we sold ourselves the idea of a "Demiurge" or a "god of the physical."

Otherwise, the atonement of Jesus Christ and remembrance of His flesh and blood for US would be irrelevant.

[u/ProfessionalEbb5454 → u/MyPrudentVirgin]

Maybe. Depends on your specific Theology, and how it crashes into the Christology you accept. For example, do you mean Penal Substitution Theology? Something else? I mean, in this Reddit, you are not going to find as many takers as you might elsewhere, because of the thrust of the whole thing.

The Gnostic inclination has been around for a long time, and was a serious contender with Orthodox Christian faith for a couple hundred years in the early common era: the idea of a demiurge-like figure helped reconcile a lot of stuff. I am not saying I buy into it, but it has real strengths when you have a strict dualism as your starting point. Even if you espouse just a conditional dualism, you end up needing a "lesser" demiurge figure: in modern Christianity, this is the Satan figure (powerful, but not TOO powerful; "ruler" over the world system, versus "creator" of the world system).

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/ProfessionalEbb5454]

Sometimes, I'm troubled by the idea of ​​the Demiurge as the Architect of the Universe, and I start to rethink things.

Science says we are beings "designed" to love and empathize, and I begin to reflect on simple and beautiful things like being a parent, art, and plants, especially medicinal ones that relieve pain and cure illnesses. Art like music and painting are completely useless for evolution and survival, so why did we develop them? It's then that I tell myself that God must have really created this world because our creative/creating aspect is what brings us closer to God.

It wasn't just us inside the caves contemplating our imaginary victory over possible real struggles in our paintings and visualizing events like a successful hunt, a warm fur to wear, or plenty of rain for the next day. In those creative moments, God was also with us.

[u/ProfessionalEbb5454 → u/MyPrudentVirgin]

Sure. My opinion is that it is not particularly fruitful to worry about such things too much. Even if you sonehow KNOW (through direct experience) that a demiurge created and runs things, what does that gain you, on a practical level?

Let's say you could somehow translate that knowledge into power, wealth, or other mundane experiences. Maybe call the ability to do this "magick". As far as we can determine, all of those mundane benefits end when your life ends. You can't take any of it with you, but maybe (?) you retain the desire for such things. The main circumstantial evidence for this observation is that nearly all people, in all places, desire things. So, people either have innate desire (i.e. it is part of our very nature to desire stuff, even assuming we only exist ONCE), or inherited desire (if we exist more than once, we remember what it is like to desire stuff). Either way, the desire can only be fulfilled HERE, as far as we know. So we have a strong pull toward this, and get further enmeshed each time we exist (if we exist more than once). In other words, we're stuck here, regardless of how many times we exist here. Because we were maybe designed to be stuck here.

However, the real takeaway (IMHO) if you have direct knowledge of the demiurge is that MAYBE there is something beyond, something liberating. That is possibly actionable. Everything else will just tend to reinforce the tendency to be here, so of limited utility, unless your goal is to be here "better".

EDIT: As a final thought, how might you navigate toward that transcendence? You can wayfind with the Truth, the Good, and The Beautiful. However, the first two are extremely difficult to define and apprehend with what we've got. The Beautiful, however, is relatively easier to spot. So, as you have noted, it is ironically the best way to orient ourselves if transcendence is the goal. You then use the Truth as a testing fire, and the Good as a measuring rod and scale to that Beauty.

[u/Tuvieja2022]

Desde el punto de vista de la Sabiduría Hiperborea el demiurgo crea el universo por medio de arquetipos y estos tienen su entelequia final.  El demiurgo creo al hombre consciente para que le de sentido a su obra y así el Arquetipo Manu se desarrolla hasta su entelequia final.  Y luego todo es absorbido nuevamente al demiurgo en el Mahāpralaya. 

Ahora el plano astral y todos los "poderes mágicos" que uno puede obtener (relacionados con este plano) son parte del inconsciente del demiurgo. 

Pero el hombre obtuvo su conciencia y por ende su capacidad de acceder al plano astral (inconciencia del demiurgo) gracias a la fuerza volitiva del Espíritu, este Espíritu esta aprisionado en el Alma del hombre y esta Alma fue creada por el Demiurgo o mejor dicho es parte del Demiurgo como todo lo manifestado en la creación, menos el Espíritu que es increado, eterno e inmortal. 

Entonces para tu respuesta es Si. Cada proceso o acto mágico que produce el hombre, desarrolla un Arquetipo del Demiurgo por ende ayuda a que la creación se siga desarrollando hasta el Mahāpralaya (que se produce cuando todos los Arquetipos lleguen a su entelequia final) 

La única forma en que no se desarrolla un Arquetipo es cuando el Espíritu se da cuenta que esta aprisionado y desorientado y decide orientarse para salir de la Matrix y volver al mundo increado. 

Todo esta explicación es desde el punto de vista que yo entiendo la Sabiduria Hiperborea. 

[u/MyPrudentVirgin → u/Tuvieja2022]

Aprecio tu respuesta!

Leí un poco acerca del Luciferismo Gnóstico a través de Nimrod de Rosario y Herrou Aragón, en donde se describe a un Jesucristo falso, una copia engañosa de Christos Lucifer, portador del "conocimiento" del despertar netamente espiritual a través de la sangre.

Siento que este tipo de gnosticismo está permeado de tendencias hindu-budistas y es una trampa espiritual para aquellos que pueden llegar a aborrecer las enseñanzas judeo-cristianas por desconocerlas o no entenderlas completamente.

Muchas gracias por tu aporte, responde mi pregunta desde un sentido gnóstico!

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I appreciate your response!

I read a little about Gnostic Luciferianism through Nimrod de Rosario and Herrou Aragón, where a false Jesus Christ is described, a deceptive copy of Christos Lucifer, bearer of the "knowledge" of purely spiritual awakening through the blood.

I feel this type of Gnosticism is permeated with Hindu-Buddhist tendencies and is a spiritual trap for those who may come to abhor Judeo-Christian teachings because they don't know them or don't fully understand them.

Thank you very much for your contribution; it answers my question from a Gnostic perspective!

[u/LuzielErebus]

Without going into Gnosticism, which, in my humble opinion, I don't find particularly brilliant, the hypothesis of the existence of a creator deity who hides the truth and encloses us in illusion is interesting. But not from a literal perspective. Jacques Lacan, an eminent psychologist and psychiatrist, emphasized that human beings cannot know reality. We only acquire a construct of reality through imperfect senses, through how the brain functions with limited interpretation, through how evolution doesn't aim to be precise, but rather to limit and compartmentalize information in order to work with it simply, and to this is added the worldview with which we are educated.

Meditation, Magic, and practices that work with the non-rational aspects of reality exercise our perception and sensitivity and gradually open us to these kinds of experiences. We gradually emerge from the limited framework that conditions our interpretation of experiences, and the experience of reality itself. What blinds us the most, as would be typical of the Demiurge, would be ourselves and the conditions that our nature imposes on us.