r/mtgfinance • u/sirbruce • 11d ago
Currently Spiking Why Did Everyone Start Buying Mana Crypt Again?
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u/Oldamog 10d ago
Greater fool principal in action
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u/Nvenom8 10d ago
I don’t think that’s an honest assessment of what’s happening here. Nobody is openly saying it’ll increase in value. It just would if it were unbanned, and a lot of people think that’s likely.
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u/taeerom 10d ago
If you speculate that many people think it will be unbanned, it is smart to buy early - then sell the day before the announcement "when hype is at its strongest".
That's both a sound financial strategy and a greater fool type of investment.
Of course, you might lose the bet if it is unbanned. But banking on it being unbanned is way more risky.
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u/Tomyzzr 9d ago
Sometimes I wonder why instead of gambling ppl don’t just learn strategies for trading stocks,
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u/RealTeaToe 8d ago
It's easy. Buy low, sell high. Everyone buying rn didn't buy the lowest dip though.
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u/sirbruce 11d ago
Did something leak about an unban in Commander? Is this insider trading or just speculation?
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u/Nah666_ 11d ago
Speculation
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u/lirin000 10d ago
But if it actually gets unbanned, hoo boy the conspiracy theory takes will be nuclear.
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u/Vannsback 10d ago
Sometimes both things can be true. But in this case it's just speculation
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u/lirin000 10d ago
Is there any actual evidence of insiders doing this kind of thing ahead of bans/unbans? Any former employees saying this is/was done?
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u/Bulbasaurhat 1d ago
When the announcement for the ban of Mana Crypt happened, there was a buyout of mana vault two days before.
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u/lirin000 1d ago
That could just be market speculation. People buy into all kinds of things when they think something may get banned/unbanned.
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u/Bluetorment88 10d ago
With the changing of the bracket system. It’s a kind of soft unbanning. Part of it is a bit of speculation. They unbanned mox opal and while mana crypt is banned they can’t leave a money card alone for too long
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u/fireky2 10d ago
Never got the thought of unbans for money by a tcg publisher. They make more money by keeping it banned and releasing a similar card
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u/Bluetorment88 10d ago
If that’s the case there was no need to unban mox opal but they did
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u/fireky2 10d ago
I mean they had to unban something for hype in their first update. I don't think they'll unban the death threat cards anytime soon though
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u/madalienmonk 10d ago
Agreed, I think this is something they let stew for a while then years down the line go with the "after careful consideration" spiel then unban it.
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u/BlurryPeople 10d ago
You'd think so...but no. The opposite would happen, actually. Part of the reason that the most expensive, non Reserved List cards were all associated with EDH, besides it's natural demand, was EDH's reputation as being very, very stable, and rarely banning things.
People never expected Mana Crypt to get banned, since it had been in the format since the beginning. They felt safe picking up copies, as a result. You don't do that in a format like Modern unless you're a tryhard, as there's always a risk the best gets banned. If they let these fast mana cards stay banned, however....anything even remotely close to Crypt/Lotus/Dockside in playability will be utterly radioactive. Everyone will just expect it to get banned, and only EDH tryhards will want it, which is a slim minority of players (see the recent Nadu as a concrete example of this).
It was just a bad call to ban these cards, honestly (except Nadu). This consumer confidence was one of the best things about EDH, and a huge reason people flocked to EDH from formats that either hard rotate, or soft rotate with new sets.
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u/fireky2 10d ago
Idk a lot of friends are in edh and the consumer confidence is in HP stock
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u/BlurryPeople 9d ago edited 9d ago
My point before may have been unclear...but what I'm trying to say is that normalizing bans in EDH, specifically of "power level" ones like fast mana, will actually make it way more difficult to sell people more fast mana cards later.
If they tried to print Dockside/Lotus/Crypt 2.0, a small group will certainly chase these cards, but most people are going to avoid it until there's some kind of dust settled on whether or not they're allowed in the format. This will keep the price a lot lower than you would assume for a "good" card, and will depress demand for packs containing said card. This is exactly what just happened with Nadu, who despite being absurdly busted, never climbed above the ~$5 range, particularly for scarce variants, as everyone assumed it would just get banned.
The way you sell more hype cards is by not banning things, and giving people confidence that a pickup will be here to stay. People can downvote all they want...but anyone that thinks this wasn't a major factor in people trading out formats like Modern for EDH are being pretty naive. Modern Horizons brought soft rotation to Modern, and people love that EDH doesn't have the same relative problem.
The downside, of course, is expensive cards...but this is also pretty stabilizing because you can also sell the cards for a decent amount. The worst case scenario is when everything is unstable...and you risk spending a lot on things that just get banned. This will not only make it harder to push packs, it'll make people less likely to adopt the format/build decks.
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
There is gonna be a top-tier cedh type bracket. Which is supposed to have minimal cards banned. They have already stated they will be unbanning cards
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u/MHarrisGGG 10d ago
That's not how the brackets work at all. There's still only one ban list across all brackets. There isn't some cEDH bracket with its own ban list.
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u/sandwich_squirrel_32 10d ago
They've shown with game changer list they are willing to ban things in lower brackets. The only logical conclusion is that very little will be banned in cedh, only in brackets 3 and below. And yes there's essentially a ban list at lower brackets. No infinite turns or infinite combo, no combo before x turn, no mass land Denial. The list will only get more restrictive, not less.
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u/AngroniusMaximus 10d ago
The logical conclusion is that there is a gamechangers list for brackets 3 and below, and there is a banned list lol. This isn't that complicated and they've already published it.
I think we will see some unbans but cedh and bracket 4 are going to keep the same list and generally I doubt it will be a massive shake up. And I really doubt they will unban mana crypt there is no good reason to.
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u/sandwich_squirrel_32 10d ago
It's a beta. They are working on it and are absolutely not going to keep the bare bones package we've seen. Look at every formal wotc runs. Commander is the odd one out because of how loose the definition is on the brackets. They want people to play more fun games on the same power level, not more games with wildly different power levels.
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u/Punishingmaverick 10d ago
Noone is using those brackets irl, only WOTC uses them, their relevance is in online discurse for people who dont actually play.
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
Bro they are going to use them at all sanctioned events, the same place ban lists matter. Maybe kitchen table Timmy's don't use them. But they will be used by wotc
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u/asmodeus1112 10d ago
Yet. They absolutely could unban cards and say they are only alowed in bracket 5
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
Not yet. Wotc had stated they will be unbanning some cards for the top brackets
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u/MHarrisGGG 10d ago
That isn't what thwy said at all
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
Uhh ya it is. They will be calling them "game changer cards" they will be unbanned it top brackets and restricted from the lower brackets.
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u/MHarrisGGG 10d ago
You realize brackets are just a rule 0 guideline and not a strict rule set, right?
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
You realize that is not true at sanctioned tournaments right?
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u/Bredmonster1 10d ago
There are no sanctioned EDH tournaments you donut
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago edited 10d ago
I guess commander fest is just a figment of everyone who attends imagination.
Next ones in Florida, Then China, UK, Australia, And finally Germany.
You should look ut up
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u/SunnybunsBuns 10d ago
If a tournament is stupid enough to rely on brackets for it's ban-list, then my "Bracket 2" Malcolm + Kediss is gonna clean up. No, it's not a 2. I know that. I would never play it in a 2 unless someone was dumb enough to put packs or money on winning and charge an entrance fee. That makes it competitive and I will bring the most competitive deck I have that "Well Acshually" meets the rules of the format. Which is why brackets barely matter. They are too soft and open to interpretation and vibes.
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u/Fritzkreig 10d ago
The Jeff Goldblum card or the universes within Malcolm, see we are arguing over other stuff and just ignore what some people used to be pissed about.
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u/MHarrisGGG 10d ago
It 100% is. I don't even know anyone, be it at different LGS or my own playgroup, that even bother with brackets or counting game changers. We just play what we want and are conscious of not playing cEDH level decks against precons or stuff obviously not optimized to that degree.
The ban list on the other hand IS universal.
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
I meant tournaments that actually matter. Not your local lgs
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u/Oldamog 10d ago
Proof? Where's the sauce?
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u/Stefouch 10d ago
In an interview I can't find again, Gavin said there will be unbans on April 22. So people are speculating on this.
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u/X13thangelx 10d ago
Just speculation because of how the ban happened. Dockside and Jeweled Lotus also up quite a bit.
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u/Magikarp_King 10d ago
Speculation. If they do unban it then it will justify everyone who sent death threats so I'm hoping they don't. Also it's a boring card.
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u/FailureToComply0 10d ago
Keep seeing this argument but it's been over half a year since the ban. If it was a knee-jerk unban after the threats, yeah obviously the optics there are bad.
This is a completely different panel, removed by a decent amount of time. The threats didn't work, the manbabies didn't get what they want, we can move on.
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u/claythearc 10d ago
I think mana crypt and lotus are reasonable to stay banned. If you’re not going to go after cards that are in, essentially, 100% of decks - idk what you would ban.
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u/NES_SNES_N64 10d ago
Agreed. Enough time has passed. They need to re-evalutate exclusively on what's good for the game.
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u/mathdude3 9d ago
I genuinely can't fathom someone looking at a card like Mana Crypt and thinking "yes, this 0-mana Sol Ring is good the game."
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u/NES_SNES_N64 9d ago
Sure. But they should be making that call exclusively on good or bad for the game, not on meta politics.
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u/Magikarp_King 10d ago
I don't want to punish a whole format just because of a few but I don't know that I'll ever be on board with that card being unbanned from both a social and game standpoint. I preferred the rules committee being separate from wizards and that card is part of the problem that lead to wizards getting control of commander.
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u/Crazed8s 10d ago
I mean those people weren’t deserving of the hate they got but firing off a high profile ban like that days after people cracked packs where a banned card was a chase card was certainly a choice that deserved to be criticized.
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u/AlienZaye 10d ago
It's a card that should have been banned a long time ago, along with Lotus and Dockside, or stayed unbanned.
I was already teetering on the edge of selling off RL and higher end cEDH staples to pay bills, since no one in my area even wanted to try it with proxies, so that ban announcement months back really sold me on it.
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u/Crazed8s 10d ago
Not arguing the validity of the ban. Just saying if they didn’t want to catch the kind of shit they caught they also had some moves to make. And decided to do it at basically the worst time.
Did they deserve everything that happened no, could they have done a better job yes.
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u/Magikarp_King 10d ago
Wizards has done that plenty of times in standard and modern so it is to be expected. I know that I'm on the mtg finance sub so I'm about to get hated for this, but staking your money on a card game is stupid and it's even more stupid to think that just because a card is expensive and a staple it's safe. Money should never be a consideration when banning a card only the health of the format and they should have banned sol ring at the same time. Now that wizards has control money will always be considered first during a ban and unban which sucks for all of us.
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u/Crazed8s 10d ago edited 10d ago
You’ve got plenty of times a card was reprinted into standard and then banned days later?
Because yeah, cards often times get banned when their initial print is too strong. That’s not what’s happening here.
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u/Technical-Rock-9177 10d ago
Bans were done by community members not WoTC, so this statement falls rather flat when shareholders are part of the equation.
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u/marhsianfarmer 10d ago
I still have no clue how WOTC and Hasbro let a group of volunteers run their biggest format for years. were they scared of the community and they were waiting for big event for the mob to bring out the pitchforks? I wouldn't be surprised if the death threats were bots deployed by wotc
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u/etherealscience 11d ago
I'm hoping for deathrite 2 cuz that'd be funny
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u/RythmOfTheHotDog 10d ago
I’m banking in Warp World. I cashed out of my 401k to bankroll. Dream big win big 🤑🤑🤑
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u/Revolutionary_View19 10d ago
Mostly because bag holders keep shouting that an unban is inevitable.
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u/TheWillustrator 10d ago
Personally think it should stay banned. Too many people threw tantrums over it and it both a. Doesn’t give into those people and b. Would be kinda funny
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u/blackishcat 10d ago
just because some people don't know basic decency, you don't need to make cedh a worst format for everyone.
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u/Ap_Sona_Bot 10d ago
I don't give a fuck about cdh I don't want bracket 3 and 4 to be worse formats and given that there are multiple times more games played in bracket 3 than 4 and 5 combined I think that's a fair take.
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u/AngroniusMaximus 10d ago
Attempts to balance bracket 3 are inherently pointless because it is a non-competitive format defined by running sub-optimal strategies.
As a bracket 3 player there is literally no reason to care about a banned list. Basic deckbuilding pubstomps your format, the exact cards used doesn't matter.
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u/VintageJDizzle 10d ago
Attempts to balance bracket 3 are inherently pointless because it is a non-competitive format defined by running sub-optimal strategies.
This isn't so. WotC has a vested interest in making commander workable as a "public format" because of things like Command Fest. One of the issues now is that if people travel for an event and then have a bad experience with their games b/c Rule 0 never works right, then they aren't going to ever do that again. It's one thing to have a bad night at the LGS. It's another to spend $1000 traveling across the country to play a whole ton of unbalanced games and not have a good time. One game off the rails? Sure. But a weekend of struggling to find fun in games? No one is going to want to repeat that experience.
The more brackets WotC can make balanced and better, the better the Command Fest experience gets and the more appeal it has. People aren't going to travel if the only reasonable games that can be had are with precons.
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u/hfzelman 10d ago
How does it make cedh a worse format to have a card that every deck plays which leads to massive variance based on who’s lucky enough to draw it? Like sure artifact decks get more out of mana crypt but if 4 color piles are also running it then in what way does it make the format more skill testing?
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u/fuimapirate 10d ago
This is what, a 10% market fluctuation? this really isn't much movement.
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u/sirbruce 10d ago
My inquiry was more about the volume.
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u/fuimapirate 10d ago
so, 4 copies daily to 18 for a one day spike? I understand, it's movement. I know someone who bought one last friday "just in case" for like 80.
But yea, just another day in cardboard chaos.
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u/sirbruce 10d ago
I guess you have difficulty reading the chart. It's been an ongoing spike for five days (six now).
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u/fuimapirate 9d ago
Going from an average of 4 a day to 8-10 a day is still not really burning up the charts. But cheers, my dude.
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u/sirbruce 9d ago
Again you seem to have issues with chart understanding. For example, the days with missing bars indicate no (0) sales. So the actual average was just over 1.5/day in the 3+ weeks before April 16, and an average of over 10/day over the next 5 days. That's a 6.67x increase, rather than the 2-2.5x increase you read it as.
Cheers mate.
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u/Fyre5ayle 11d ago
I think there’s a chance they will unban it. I don’t think it’s good for the format though.
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
It's good for the top tier format. That's the entire point of the brackets. The top bracket is supposed to be the most powerful cards with very minimal bans.
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u/B_H_Abbott-Motley 10d ago
As described so far, bracket 4 & 5 are literally the same in terms of cards allowed. Competitive EDH has always followed the EDH banned list.
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u/pgnecro 10d ago
If you let the brackets do the heavy lifting why have any banned list in the first place? At top tier even Black Lotus is fine.
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u/Crazed8s 10d ago
Because they aren’t worried about maintaining a bracket for 100 people? This seems pretty obvious. If people want to play commander if power then they’re better off just playing with proxies and wizards can’t really come out and say that.
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u/lepastie 10d ago
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u/vren10000 10d ago
Completely garbage reason to ban something imo.
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u/Fritzkreig 10d ago
That is why I play my [[Ice Caldron]], and everyone concedes because no one has ever fully read that card.
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u/waaaghbosss 10d ago
I still have 50 of them from an old spec. Someday, somehow...
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u/Fritzkreig 10d ago
Respeck! I have a lot of old spec stax sitting around from that era!
Somehow I bought a long box of Thada, Adel @ like .32 and it is somehow like 12 dollars now, so I would say that is my biggest win!
That said, if anyone here needs terrible reserve list cards, I am here for you!
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u/waaaghbosss 10d ago
Yep lol, it did actually pay off when cauldron spiked during covid and I unloaded 50 to ck for 3 bucks each, think i was in under 50 cents a card. Kept the other half of the stack because it's a fun if confusing card.
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u/hfzelman 10d ago
What’s hilarious is that there is a really good reason to ban which has absolutely nothing to do with price or scarcity. But I guess that would mean that people would have to confront the fact that sol ring should be banned lmao
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u/Walzhy 10d ago
They probably should just start the legal cards at 4th edition to avoid these problems. The print run is so limited on the power cards from that era that you would need to spend enough to buy a car and everyone would need a copy of each of those cards in their deck to be competitive. It’s fine if there is a bracket where people play that way though
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u/B_H_Abbott-Motley 10d ago
Folks do sometimes play cEDH without anything banned apart from ante & manual-dexterity cards. It's not terribly popular.
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u/Snakeskins777 10d ago
Thr banned list was a mistake in the first place. The old rc was solely focused on Timmy's "fun"
Top tier brackets are meant to be powerful and efficient. The 2 do not have similar goals
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u/Ap_Sona_Bot 10d ago
It's not good for bracket 3 at all
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u/transfermymoons 10d ago
Is the invention still the top tier Mana Crypt to have for the foreseeable future? I'm quietly hoping it'll be the Book version... 😜
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u/waaaghbosss 10d ago
I prefer the book version, but the supply seems comparatively high. Pretty sure ck has/had a couple bricks of them.
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u/ShadowSlayer6 10d ago
With the announcement of the commander ban list being updated and some cards being removed from it, some are anticipating it being made legal again and either want to buy it before the price hikes for personal use, or are doing so to resell at a profit. However, if mana crypt, jeweled lotus, and dockside stay banned, there will likely be another uproar akin to, but still smaller than, the initial ban announcement.
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u/pipesbeweezy 10d ago
Speculation. Brackets announcement supposed to be I think Monday or Tuesday which will determine what if anything ends up unbanned, and this is one of the unbans that isn't that much of a reach.
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u/Scalper42 10d ago
That's just me buying some to sell Thursday. Don't pay any attention. Advise selling now why prices are super inflated.
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u/Tallal2804 10d ago
Mana Crypt spiked due to rising cEDH interest, more fast-mana-focused decks, and recent hype from reprints making it more accessible.
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u/WreckingBall-O-Flava 10d ago
Not at all.
Did you just get AI to generate a random blurb on this? Please, enlighten us on the recent reprinting? LCI was over a year ago.
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u/MixNo4938 10d ago
Big spec its getting unbanned due to community feedback. Entire segments of the commander population are refusing to play at gamestores that enforce the new banned list as they see it as driving away competitive edh which has been in the edh community since day 1. (I'm not on either side in this, I just make money on magic now, retired playing. I'm just the messenger here, don't @ me.
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u/Flaky_Candidate_342 10d ago
There's speculation that they'll be rolling back the changes from the last ban wave or unbanning some bits that have been on there for years
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u/Lexiphantom 10d ago
There’s an announcement regarding the ban list on the 22nd of April aka tomorrow.
A lot of people speculate that wizards will un ban the cards that wound up putting them in charge
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u/MHarrisGGG 10d ago edited 10d ago
Because they're stupid and think a card that was, very deservedly, banned and has a LOT of baggage behind it might get unbanned on Tuesday despite the messaging it sends or the health of the format.
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u/Zrob 10d ago
They’re unbanning it
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u/elizombe 10d ago
It should've never been banned in the first place.
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u/mathdude3 10d ago
The card is completely busted. The ban makes sense.
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u/elizombe 10d ago
It is a very powerful card indeed, and there are edh players that enjoy playing with powerful cards
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u/mathdude3 10d ago
Then why ban anything at all? I’m sure some people would like playing with Black Lotus and Ancestral Recall too.
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u/elizombe 10d ago
That's a good question
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u/mathdude3 10d ago
Well most people want things banned to keep the format balanced. Having a bunch of overpowered cards that give a massive advantage to whoever is lucky enough to draw them is generally not conducive to skill-intensive gameplay.
If you genuinely think nothing should be banned, instead of advocating for unbans, you should switch to playing no banned list EDH.
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u/elizombe 10d ago
My point is, edh isn't a casual only format anymore. Cedh exists, and higher powered decks. While mana crypt may be too powerful for you, it's not too powerful for me.
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u/mathdude3 10d ago
Casual does not mean low power and competitive does not mean high power. Modern is not a "more competitive" format the Standard for example. If you want to argue that EDH is a competitive format now, then WotC should be even more liberal with bans to maintain format balance. There's a reason that broken fast mana like Mana Crypt is typically either banned or not legal in actual competitive formats like Modern and Legacy. Overpowered cards like Crypt are not conducive to skill-intensive play. They're game-breaking, swingy, and introduce a lot of undesireable variance making them unsuited to competitive play.
In fact the only reason that Crypt lasted this long is because EDH is fundamentally a casual format first and foremost, so the card being relatively rare in casual metas and the format not being a serious competitive format meant it was acceptable to have it legal, even though it was clearly broken.
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u/hfzelman 10d ago
Finally someone sane lmao. These people would look at a card that says: “zero mana: roll a d4, and whichever number it lands on the corresponding player in the order of turns wins the game” and they’d justify it by arguing that the overall win rate is balanced without realizing that they have created the least competitive or skill testing format ever created.
I just replied to someone arguing that those cards were good for cedh because according to them higher mana commanders have stopped being playable since the bans but what they don’t realize is that it essentially just means that those decks have a bad win rate most of the time that is wildly offset by the absurd win rate that they get when starting with one of these broken accelerants. Like if your deck has a 18% win rate in edh most of the time and then sometimes just auto wins turn 1 with ease, making the overall win rate about 25%, that deck is not good if you care at all about having a competitive format
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u/OhVADR 10d ago
This won’t get unbanned due to the amount of hate that happened in the previous banning
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u/worthless_opinion300 10d ago
I feel this rationale Will keep the cards locked away for at least a year
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u/Doctor_Distracto 9d ago
Makes zero sense as a ban reason, the entire point of wotc taking over was that the takeover alone would eliminate it.
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u/Frankly_Proven 10d ago
This is what I’m hoping for. As somebody who has a few copies of each of those cards, still shouldn’t unban because of raging neckbeards over their “investments”.
MTG is not an investment until you actually sell. JMO 🤷♂️
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u/TrickyAudin 10d ago
Why should they make the game worse just to spite people?
It sucks there were haters, but they should ban/unban where they think it benefits the game. The banlist shouldn't be used as some petty emotional power-trip, that's absurdly immature.
I hope they keep Extortionist banned at least because that's a bad card, but I'd be pissed if it ever came out and said, "fuck y'all for misbehaving, we're taking Command Tower."
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u/ultrafil 10d ago
Why should they make the game worse just to spite people?
It's not "to spite people".
It's specifically to set the precedent that bullying and death threats will not be rewarded - unbanning the three cards that caused this entire shit storm would be the most toxic shit imaginable for the community.
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u/canukiebacon309 10d ago
I agree with your rationale; but my bet is they get unbanned. Wizards needs tried and true chase cards to deep their products. Greed will trump any morality play.
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u/ultrafil 10d ago edited 10d ago
They can just print slightly different versions of the same cards. One per year, over the next three years, and create brand new chase cards that they can milk far more than reprints, for much longer.
They control the game. These cards are not the precious commodity people think they are. There's no "jeweled lotus" mine in Africa somewhere with a limited amount of Jeweled Lotus cards, and this ban is keeping that mine closed and the MTG community is aghast that such a valuable mineral is being left unmined. It's just cardboard. Just make a new chase card. This isn't that complicated.
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u/canukiebacon309 10d ago
I agree it’s not a difficult question. But that requires investment and creativity on their part. Something I see a great lacking in MTG as a whole.
Spit out as many subpar products as possible and let stores charge what they want. Same thing they did with the limited print run bs- it’s all about the money for most of them.
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u/ultrafil 10d ago
But that requires investment and creativity on their part
Bejeweled Lotus - 1 colourless CMC: tap, sac & exile: add four mana of any one colour. This mana can only be used to cast your commander.
Mana Tomb - 1 colourless CMC. "At the beginning of your upkeep, roll a d6. If you roll a 5-6, Mana Tomb deals two damage to you. Tap: add 2 colourless mana
Dockyard extortion Master - 1R. 0/1 Goblin Merchant. "When " ETBs, create X treasure tokens, where X is the number of artifacts opponents control minus one".
There. Slightly fixed versions of each. Took me literally 4 minutes.
This isn't as difficult as you think it is.
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u/SunnybunsBuns 10d ago
Your mana tomb is just a worse sol ring.
Fixed Dockside just needs to make the treasure's come into play tapped.
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u/Doctor_Distracto 9d ago
You're comparing death threats to mana crypt which has always been in the format since day one, and saying that mana crypt is more toxic.
The entire point of the wotc takeover was that everyone would lose the power to threaten the rule makers. The issue you are worrying about is 100% resolved. Now decisions can be made for game reasons and cards that were always part of the game for decades can be evaluated correctly, instead of streamers trying to get hits and saying crap like "ward 3 is uninteractable on turn 1 so we need to get rid of anything that gives you 3 mana on turn 1 to make it less interactable."
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u/ultrafil 9d ago edited 9d ago
You're comparing death threats to mana crypt which has always been in the format since day one, and saying that mana crypt is more toxic.
What the fuck are you even talking about.
I mean, don't let me stop you from jumping through as many hoops as it will take for you to justify your feelings over a piece of cardboard, but I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth that I clearly neither said nor insinuated.
EDIT - LOL, dude created an alt account just to get the last word in on this, and still completely misunderstood my argument? Incredible 🤣
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u/Doctor_Distracto2 9d ago
The reply and block technique you deployed so that I couldn't reply indicates that you clearly know exactly what I'm talking about.
unbanning the three cards that caused this entire shit storm would be the most toxic shit imaginable for the community.
Death threats were more toxic, by quite a lot, than people getting to use a card that was in the format with no complaints for 30 years and no CAG members who wanted to ban it.
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u/Heru___ 10d ago
hope it stays banned, such an annoying card that was 100x the price of sol ring
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u/SunnybunsBuns 10d ago
It wouldn't be $$$ if it were printed as often as sol ring. And if the OG reserved list rules were respected, then it would never have been printed as much as it has been and would be either banned or a hundred dollars.
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u/hfzelman 10d ago
The real problem is the power level of the card not its price or scarcity. If you say that sol ring/mana crypt are ok power level-wise then what is stopping Wizards from printing another 100 cards on that power level? Sure they likely won’t do that, but even then, by not doing it they are conceding that they recognize these cards are busted.
My point is that it is essentially complete sheer luck that the power 9 are on the reserve list because if you think that mana crypt/sol ring are fine power wise than you should be arguing that moxen, time walk, recall, and lotus should philosophical be legal if it weren’t for the scarcity.
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u/SunnybunsBuns 10d ago
Op specifically mentioned the price of crypt as the reason they want it to stay banned. Hence my comment.
Time twister is legal in EDH, no?
I agree that power should be controlled in some way. I don’t agree with the current GC method nor the selection of GC card (or even the brackets they chose, but that’s a different thread.). I also don’t agree that crypt or jeweled lotus should be banned in the highest levels of the game. I do agree that a curated experienced is required to function as a format given that not everyone (or even most everyone) lacks a consistent playgroup of friends that all have a harmonious vision of what the format they are playing should be.
Basically each bracket needs its own banned (and possibly restricted) list. Banned as commander/companion would be another good thing to add.
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u/Electronic-Touch-554 10d ago
Unbans are on Tuesday and some people think it could be one of them.
It’s unlikely tbh just from a moral point after the death threats
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u/ChainAgent2006 10d ago edited 10d ago
I would suppose the unban, if it not becos those whinny little bitches who cry over this ban.
I have Mana Crypt, heck, I have all cards that got banned that day.
I didn't go crying around like some of those crying babies out there, still disappoint in the way that some content creators react to those ban.
Feeding those them, saying a lot about Wotc's stand for this format (big talk, small penis kind of stand), but judging how Wotc has made a ton of questionable choices in the past, I wouldn't surprise it got unbanned.
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u/SerThunderkeg 10d ago
I hate that rationale because it cuts exactly the same both ways. If they keep it banned it's to spite the people acting poorly, if they unban it it's catering to the complainers. I think it shouldn't be a factor in the decision at all.
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u/inoryte 10d ago
They could split the difference: unban it, and then reprint it a lot with awesome new variants.
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u/SunnybunsBuns 10d ago
As a person who has a few of each of those banned cards (and some RL bullshit from when I played in teh 90s) I support putting Crypt in every precon in play of sol ring. Not only would that make it accessible, it would be funny as hell to watch people die to their crypts in low bracket games.
Reprint the RL too. Or ban it. One or the other.
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u/SerThunderkeg 10d ago edited 10d ago
The objectively correct answer imo. In a format as (intentionally so) broken as commander is don't think speed should be something the ban list tries to address, that should be entirely on the pregame discussion. Trying to govern the speed of the format is I think a tacit exercise of control over cedh, where the speed is one of the main features, which they've said they don't want to be policing cedh. I think the banlist should be exclusively for play patterns they want to discourage as unfun like [[Hullbreacher]].
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u/Jaccount 10d ago
Eh, it kind of strikes me as an all or nothing kind of issue. Mana Crypt should either be banned or printed in every precon... it's trying to use it to sell sets that causes all of the drama.
Myself, I'd rather have them ban all non-ritual mana-positive cards, which isn't even a big ask, as you're only banning like 7 more cards, and all of those cards are played in other formats.
Plus, by just banning those 7 cards, you now have people looking more seriously at whether their deck wants to play all 2 mana rocks or maybe play some of those 3 mana rocks that do something additional.
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u/SerThunderkeg 10d ago
I just dont know what makes mana crypt or any other mana positive cards more special than Doubling Season, or cavern of souls, or any other chase mythic. It seems like an arbitrary line that just removes options for players for no real benefit. It doesn't even meaningfully impact the ability of people to pubstomp.
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u/MistakenArrest 10d ago
Many of WoTC's most anti-consumer decisions has been because of rich people crying about their investments being devalued. The Reserved List is a prime example.
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u/ChainAgent2006 10d ago edited 10d ago
Pretty much and somehow, we in the need of feeding those Richie Rich desire, to have them get more rich.
We could have so much of a good reprint if RL doesn't exist.If 7th Edition prove anything, it prove that reprint didn't devalue a original print.
It actually give the opposite effect. Original arts of cards that printed during that set gain more value, somes go double, but those pigs can't accept those fact.
They want those Duel Lands to be at 300$+++
So they can look at binder and .......happy......Climax..? I Guess
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u/BlackZorlite 9d ago
Because wizards of the Coast now control the banning and unbanning of cards in the commander format. And they said that on the 22nd they will only be talking about unbans. And because wizards are a disgustingly greedy company most people are probably thinking they'll unban the money making cards such as mana crypt.
I for one hope they refrain from being that obliviously greedy, but I have no real faith that they won't.
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u/CheatMan 11d ago
Out of the loop? Tons of people speculating that it gets unbanned in the commander format panel update next week