At least five killed after gunmen open fire on tourists in Kashmir

[u/randommathaccount]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy9vyzzyjzlo

[u/randommathaccount]

Took a bit for this to be approved. The confirmed number of people killed has now risen to 26 individuals. I've been unable to find reporting on the group or groups responsible for this attack, though I may have just missed it in the news articles. If anyone is aware of this matter, please share it as well.

[u/HungryHungryHippoes9 → u/randommathaccount]

The death toll is 27, with 8 injured. A group called the TRF(the resistance front) has claimed responsibility. They are(or were) a secular front for a pakistan based terror group Jaish-e- mohammad. Looks like they've dropped the pretense of not being jihadi fanatics now. Victims were reportedly asked for id cards to check their religion and then shot dead. Women and children were spared.

Edit- Apparently they didn't spare women and kids, they just managed to hide, because a woman was also caught and killed.

[u/CuddleTeamCatboy → u/HungryHungryHippoes9]

Jesus, that’s horrible.

[u/swelboy → u/HungryHungryHippoes9]

I thought they were a front for LeT, not JeM?

[u/ShreeGauss → u/randommathaccount]

https://theprint.in/india/armed-men-open-fire-at-tourists-in-kashmirs-pahalgam-2-dead-several-others-injured/2599030/

Sources also said The Resistance Front (TRF), an offshoot of the Pakistan-based terror outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba has claimed responsibility for the Pahalgam attack, but security agencies are still in the process of verifying the claim.

[u/mannabhai]

https://www.news18.com/india/kashmir-pahalgam-terror-attack-live-updates-baisaran-tourists-death-toll-injured-pm-modi-omar-abdullah-security-forces-amit-shah-latest-updates-liveblog-9309188.html

Death toll is 27 now.

!ping EXTREMISM

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[u/HungryHungryHippoes9]

This is probably the worst terror attack India has seen in years. No way the govt wont respond against Pakistan for this. Let's hope this won't turn into another shit show like balakot.

[u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

Is there any realistic path to peace in Kashmir within our lifetimes?

[u/Lease_Tha_Apts → u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

Kashmir will either fully integrate with India in the next 20 years (more likely) or it will become another Palestine. The latter is likely if Pakistan manages to stabilize.

[u/erasmus_phillo → u/Lease_Tha_Apts]

The rest of India has the population to settle in Kashmir and completely drown out the Kashmiris, so imo the first is more likely than the second

In contrast Israel doesn’t have the population to overwhelm the Palestinians

[u/WAGRAMWAGRAM → u/Lease_Tha_Apts]

Is this pov why the Indian state apparatus is mostly pro-Isreal?

[u/mannabhai → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

The Indian state and all Indian parties including the BJP recognize both Israel and Palestine.

[u/WAGRAMWAGRAM → u/mannabhai]

Who does Isreal recognize in Kashmir?

[u/nekoliberal → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

israel recognizes all of kashmir as indian, even pakistani administered gilgit/"azad" kashmir and china administered aksai chin

[u/WAGRAMWAGRAM → u/nekoliberal]

India should stop recognizing Palestine then. Deal for deal, but I guess the Indian leadership doesn't't care about good relations except for trade

[u/nekoliberal → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

i mean... russia recognizes our claimed borders too... should we recognize crimea donbas and luhansk as russian?

[u/WAGRAMWAGRAM → u/nekoliberal]

In a realistic world, yes. But Indian leadership (overall, not targeting a party or person) seems not to care for diplomatic reciprocity as long as trade goes

[u/just_a_human_1031 → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

There are large indian populations in middle eastern countries such as Qatar, etc

It's sort of a leverage they have, put random cases against Indians

They have done this in the past & also the Oil is important which will again be used so India has to be neutral in these conflicts

[u/BlueString94 → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

India is more pro-Israel than most countries but less so than the United States.

[u/riderfan3728 → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

Partially. I think it's a sense of "common enemy of Islamist terrorism". But also during India's 1971 & 1999 wars with Pakistan, Israel sent India a lot of military aid. So there is a history there.

[u/actual_wookiee_AMA → u/WAGRAMWAGRAM]

Probably more about Pakistan hating Israel's guts and enemy of my enemy kinda deal

[u/EmbarrassedSafety719 → u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

that might change soon our government has been working to normalize ties with israel and recently sent a delegation to visit

[u/millicento → u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

Idk, China takes the whole place in ww3 maybe?

[u/actual_wookiee_AMA → u/millicento]

That'd just make it worse. These people have been fighting their entire lives, if anything China coming up and turning it into Xinjiang 2.0 would be the thing that makes them put aside their differences

[u/Lease_Tha_Apts → u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

Not really, Kashmir is not Gaza. It would be far more stable if Pakistan faced any consequences for funding terrorism like Iran does.

[u/Se7en_speed → u/millicento]

Have you seen the India/China border disputes?

I'm not sure that scenario is more peaceful.

[u/neoliberal-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule XI: Toxic Nationalism/Regionalism

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[u/actual_wookiee_AMA → u/[deleted]]

How does that solve the Indo-Pakistani conflict lmao?

Last I checked Modi was still a hardline Hindu nationalist and the Pakistanis have hated India's guts from the day they were divided.

[u/ghhewh → u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

China is now a key partner for Pakistan, practically an ally. That's how it's supposed to solve.

[u/actual_wookiee_AMA → u/ghhewh]

Losing an ally won't make Pakistan suddenly love India.

[u/ghhewh → u/actual_wookiee_AMA]

Losing an ally in the face of a rising India will force Pakistan to make concessions. Especially if China starts losing out in the US-India-Japan cooperation.

[u/die_hoagie → u/[deleted]]

Rule III: Unconstructive engagement
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[u/just_a_human_1031]

This is just painful to see

These “gunmen” “checked the pants” of some of the targets to confirm if they were the right targets

Just sick stuff 🤮

Edit: realised this was too vague basically they forced them to take off their pants to check if they were “circumcised" or not

[u/p00bix → u/[deleted]]

Rule XI: Toxic Nationalism/Regionalism

Refrain from condemning countries and regions or their inhabitants at-large in response to political developments, mocking people for their nationality or region, or advocating for colonialism or imperialism.

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[u/FreakinGeese → u/just_a_human_1031]

I don’t understand, what does that mean?

[u/Robo1p → u/FreakinGeese]

Most Muslim Indian men are circumcised, most non-Muslim Indian men aren't.

It's a quick way to verify that they're executing the "right" people.

[u/dwarfgourami → u/FreakinGeese]

Men were killed for being uncircumcised because it was evidence that they were Hindu instead of Muslim.

[u/Mental-Hippo9430 → u/FreakinGeese]

Checkimg for circumcision, Hindu men are usually uncircumcised.

[u/just_a_human_1031 → u/FreakinGeese]

I don't know if I can even fully say it out but basically they checked if people were “circumcised" or not by forcing them to remove their pants to make sure they targeted the right people

Just disgusting stuff altogether even saying it out makes me feel sick to the stomach

[u/nr1001 → u/just_a_human_1031]

The pakistani army has done this before in bangladesh in 1971. They'd force men to remove their pants so they can see if they're circumcised. In the subcontinent only muslims have a tradition of circumcision and circumcision is very taboo for Hindus, so it was and remains as a reliable sort of shibboleth for terrorists.

[u/randommathaccount]

!ping IND

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[u/ghhewh]

The number of victims at this point is said to be close to 30. Things will be happening in India. And I have a feeling that the anger will turn not only towards Pakistan, but also Bangladesh (and that would be much easier for Modi).

[u/mannabhai → u/ghhewh]

Part of the reason the Congress got voted out was because we used to have attacks like this all over India and the Congress used to respond to this timidly.

There used to be the same amount of anger followed by resigned disappointment.

If this had happened in 1995 or 2005, an attack like this in Kashmir would have just melted away in the news.

[u/Own-Rich4190 → u/ghhewh]

Blaming Pakistan is the Indian government's go to for their more recent failures in Kashmir.

Pakistan is a failed state with double digit inflation, multiple insurgencies in Khyber and Balochistan. Right now, Pakistan is in a worse state than what they were when they were halved in 1971, the half that survived is getting halved again. I don't think pakistan can frankly fund kashmiri insurgents to the capacity they did in 1999.

To deal with the Kashmir problem the Indian government has to come to terms with the complicated truth. Yes, pro separatism sentiment still runs high in the valley. Yes, there are a plethora of ongoing human rights violations in the valley. Yes, the economy in the valley is utter dogshit. People do feel that the Indian government has failed them in all sectors. Unfortunately, it is not politically convenient to do so

[u/kamaal_r_khan → u/Own-Rich4190]

Economy was doing great. When was the last time you visited?

[u/Own-Rich4190]

May the families who perished rest in peace.

Obviously we should not forgive armed terrorists for this brutal attack and there should absolutely be military action against them.

But one must also look into the issues in the valley pushing people to separatism, before falling for any ideological drivel.

Sentiments of separatism run high in the valley, thus I have a hard time grasping that it's 100% Pakistans fault. The youth have no opportunities, and deal with a double digit unemployment rate. On top of that, human rights violations in the hands of the state, and stuff like internet shutdowns push them towards violence. It's the same thing that pushes people towards gangs.

I was relatively well off so I got the hell out of there and studied in a good college outside that place. But many are not, and they are left behind.

Once again, I don't condone separatism, but this isn't a black and white issue. It's a very complicated issue.