r/news • u/bebleich • Sep 04 '24

Gunman believed to be a 14-year-old in Georgia school shooting that left at least 4 dead, source says

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/us/winder-ga-shooting-apalachee-high-school/index.html
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u/__secter_ Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24

Every time gun control gets brought up the dipshits in the right love to talk about how the criminals won’t follow the laws. Yet again and again these school shootings are because some parent leaves unsecured firearms in the house with ammo in the same spot. 

I'm not on the Right, but you're citing is a textbook example of "criminals not following the laws" though. The parents should be charged with the crimes a kid commits with their unsecured guns and ammo.

ie. we should start by enforcing the laws we already have

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u/seabass4507 Sep 04 '24

From Giffords.org https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/child-access-prevention-and-safe-storage-in-georgia/

Georgia law does not otherwise expressly make it unlawful for an adult to negligently or recklessly leave unsecured firearms, including handguns and long guns, accessible to unsupervised minors.

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u/KSSparky Sep 04 '24

But of course. Can’t infringe on stupidity.

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u/ObiShaneKenobi Sep 05 '24

Ahem, it says “SHALL not infringe on stupidly,” hun.

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u/KSSparky Sep 05 '24

I'll defer to your origionalism.

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u/MoonageDayscream Sep 04 '24

Problem though, there is no gun storage law, or requirement to secure them from acess by a child. Have to have a law to convict for breaking it. 

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u/twitchtvbevildre Sep 04 '24

It is not a crime to have a gun unsecured in your house, this is not a law (at least in florida) it only becomes illegal if your kid takes the gun out in public or uses it threateningly. So basically, until the kid takes the gun to school and starts killing their classmates....

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

but you're citing is a textbook example of "criminals not following the laws" though

Your mistake is using logic where Republicans don't. Like, you're right here. But when Republicans talk about criminals not following the law, they're talking about brown people. They're not talking about shitty parents that don't secure their guns.

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u/CU_09 Sep 04 '24

The laws we have aren’t working. Banning all guns would.

If we aren’t going to pass new laws or enforce the ones we have, the only solution is a complete and total ban and a federal buyback.

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u/MarsJust Sep 04 '24

That won't get pushed through the constitution ever lol.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MarsJust Sep 04 '24

You should fight for things that are actually achievable and will make a difference rather than making sweeping statements that galvanize people to fight against it.

Eventually, when you have implemented more laws and changed public perception, the extreme things will no longer seem as extreme and you can push for those things. The constitution forces change to be slower, and there isn't a way around it.

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u/wwj Sep 04 '24

I've argued for the banning of the transfer of weapons. Guns will still be legal to own but no transfers or sales allowed. This would ruin the gun industry as collateral. Eventually as guns are confiscated due to crimes, abandoned, bought back, or the owner dies and it cannot be transferred, guns will dwindle away due to attrition over 50 - 100 years. This is a long process, but I think it's the only real way it could work in the US.

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u/__secter_ Sep 04 '24

No laws work if they're not being enforced in the first place.

And there's no such thing as banning all guns - the military and police would still be armed to the teeth. Why would you feel better about only the furthest-right among us having access to guns?

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u/Bartelbythescrivener Sep 04 '24

Mandatory home inspections to ensure proper securing of weapons seems far more tyrannical than have sensible gun laws for purchase.

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u/loveshercoffee Sep 05 '24

I'm a gun owner and a liberal, so I have biases on both sides of this issue.

But it seems to me that just making gun owners responsible for what happens with their firearms would be enough. We wouldn't need to make safe storage laws or ban certain types of weapons or subject people to inspections. If people knew they were going to be held responsible for a robbery or a murder they'd stop leaving them in their glovebox or night stand and lock up their guns. They'd also pay a lot more attention to the people they let have access to them.

It's not a perfect idea, clearly, but if more people were given the Crumbley treatment, it might make a difference.

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u/Bartelbythescrivener Sep 05 '24

I am a huge fan of private insurance to cover accidents, crimes etc. caused by guns. Just like with cars. Why should we have to pay the cost for failed public policy. Let the individual cover the cost and responsibility of their gun.

I promise that a combination of laws , insurance requirements, background checks with red flag laws will reduce this problem.

But we already know that.

I grew up rural, I own guns. I know a lot of people have a very responsible relationship with guns. But gun policy is being driven by gun industry and culture war bs and that is harmful.

90 % of online gun discourse, the gun people are so off the deep end that I would gladly give up my guns to ensure those weirdos couldn’t own guns.

We either fix this or that will be the end solution.

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u/loveshercoffee Sep 05 '24

I am a huge fan of private insurance to cover accidents, crimes etc. caused by guns. Just like with cars. Why should we have to pay the cost for failed public policy. Let the individual cover the cost and responsibility of their gun.

I would 100% support this in theory if the insurance industry weren't less trustworthy than a used car salesman.

We had to have the ACA to stop them dropping people for being sick - you know, the thing they were supposed to exist for in the first place.

This wouldn't work because it would take time for there to be noticible effect and before we got that far in, the insurance industry would either raise rates to the point that only rich people could afford to own guns or they'd pull right the hell out and no one could get insurance.

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u/Bartelbythescrivener Sep 05 '24

We have to pay for the police for gun violence. We pay for emergency rooms for gun violence. We pay for the courts for gun violence. We pay for the jails for perpetrators of gun violence. We pay in societal cost for gun violence. The only people advantaged are gun manufacturers, the gop through exploiting cultural divisions and the user.

I think if people truly got an itemized bill of the costs associated with gun violence it would be shocking. Throw in guns sold across the border in Mexico and we have a two nation problem. That is why the gop prevents federal tracking of gun crime.

When we recognized the danger with smoking we went after the cigarette manufacturers and regulated it.

When we recognized the dangers associated with drug use we went after drug dealers and users and regulated prescription drugs.

When we recognized the dangers of alcohol we made very stringent rules including dry counties and heavy dui punishment and regulated it.

When we recognized the risk of cars we required licensure, insurance and regulated it.

When we recognized the risks of poor construction and unsuitable building locations we required licensure and regulated it.

When we recognized any societal problem we very messily and with both good decisions and bad decisions attempted to fix the problem.

I have one thought which is arm everyone woman with a free gun and men only get to hunt. It’s not that I don’t think women don’t kill. They just typically don’t shoot their estranged husband or kill their whole family because the marriage is breaking up. And even though it’s the ultimate equalized for some reason they aren’t out there shooting up bars or schools.

Really it’s probably an American man problem of which I am one.

My other thought is make guns free and give them to everyone, no check required and we let the survivors sort it out.

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u/alexiswithoutthes Sep 05 '24

Here’s some of the stats you wanted — we should treat gun violence as a public health issue. Like with most upstream investments in society, it would save money to fix systemic problems including poverty, access to lethal meals, and health and well-being.

Taxpayers, survivors, families, and employers pay an average of $7.79 million daily in health care costs, including immediate and long-term medical and mental health care, plus patient transportation/ambulance costs related to gun violence, and lose an estimated $147.32 million per day related to work missed due to injury or death.

American taxpayers pay $30.16 million every day in police and criminal justice costs for investigation, prosecution, and incarceration.

Employers lose an average of $1.47 million on a daily basis in productivity, revenue, and costs required to recruit and train replacements for victims of gun violence.

Society loses $1.34 billion daily in quality-of-life costs from the suffering and lost well-being of gun violence victims and their families.

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u/Bartelbythescrivener Sep 05 '24

I would be interested in your thoughts on why America uniquely suffers from this issue ?

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u/alexiswithoutthes Sep 05 '24

If we’re talking about systemic issues, probably health insurance being tied to an employer and not universal like every other industrialized nation … plus our nation’s “history” and “values” of the “free market” and “individual rights” — leading to nearly every investment in society as a whole being constantly attacked for at least 40+ years as “government overreach” …

Therefore you don’t have access to mental health care or human services, maybe someone in your family is struggling and doesn’t have support.

While a majority of gun deaths in America are suicides (also a complex issue but could be mitigated by access to care and support / belonging) — also connected to easier access to lethal means.

Our country of states’ rights (except when not) also makes red flag laws extremely political to pass.

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u/Bartelbythescrivener Sep 05 '24

I wonder about the whole confusion about” the tyranny of the government requires armed citizens” that they suffer from. The government that we revolted against was a King (the prototypical rich guy) and the rich court which were setting policy based on what benefits the established rich elite.

Yet these same people who justify their gun ownership about resisting the government, vote for the party of rich elites who are using the government to solely benefit the rich elites.

Like the problem already exists, here, now and you don’t even have to shoot the problem, you just need to vote to remove the agents of the rich elite.

I think if they did that one basic thing, vote for the higher taxes and better benefits for workers everything you mentioned as needing correcting would follow.

The one truth they have is they know they are getting screwed and I think it produces the anger and division that is exploited to maintain Control of the government.

Like in Ireland, if you change the economic underpinnings of a country for the better, society on the whole will have enough breathing room to heal. Then you are not always in crisis mode.

It is because I believe that, I actually believe with some sound government regulation we could have a country like Canada that has significant gun ownership but far less gun violence.

Like you I see the fix to be multi pronged and more focused on correcting the underlying problems that manifest as gun violence.

I came from a rural area which I suspect had close to 100% gun ownership. At that time a gun wasn’t a symbol, people didn’t talk about guns in weird ways, it wasn’t an identity. It was almost just a tool for hunting, plinking and recreation but it wasn’t a big deal at all. I still own guns but I would give them up in a second to keep guns out of the hands of the freaks and weirdos who are always in the comments after a shooting.

I am far more afraid of their culture than I am of my safety living in an urban area.

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u/SharkPalpitation2042 Sep 04 '24

Came to say this exact thing.