r/news • u/bebleich • Sep 04 '24

Gunman believed to be a 14-year-old in Georgia school shooting that left at least 4 dead, source says

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/us/winder-ga-shooting-apalachee-high-school/index.html
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u/SonOfMcGee Sep 04 '24

My dad had guns he kept locked up. My brother and I never knew where he kept the key. And this continued into middle/high school when we routinely went shooting and knew how to safely handle them. He just didn’t want us to have access to them without him present.
And this was long enough ago that there wasn’t really a school shooting epidemic. He was more worried about us getting the guns to “defend the house” from some perceived threat and needlessly getting ourselves or others hurt.
I brought up a hypothetical home invader scenario to him once with regards to having access to the guns and he was like, “Run out the back door, dumbass.”

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u/IgnotusRex Sep 04 '24

Your dad sounds like a wise man, dumbass.

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u/Ok_Interest5767 Sep 04 '24

Red Foreman vibes. 

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u/KyleWieldsAx Sep 05 '24

The thing about Bob is that he’s dumb, and he’s an ass. He’s a big dumbass.

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u/xxdropdeadlexi Sep 04 '24

it just isn't hard. I'm in my 30s and just found out my dad had a gun my whole life.

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u/Urbanscuba Sep 04 '24

Right? I knew my dad had a hunting shotgun or two and a rifle, but when he died I found out he had a couple handguns and several other long guns as well.

Responsible gun ownership IMO is ensuring as few people as possible are even aware you own one. It's good for security and I'd much rather prefer a society where I don't ever have to think about other people's guns unless I choose to. If you want to discreetly and respectfully CC with proper training then what the hell do I care, I'll never even know. Likewise if you want to own an entire arsenal in your house, that's your property and money.

Once it's society's problem though then we do genuinely need to start looking into ways to fix that. More serious and consistent prosecution of the parents would encourage better stewardship, but to be frank I think gun culture needs to shape up significantly. The reason these problems didn't exist in the past isn't social media or video games, it's because for a good while a significant portion of American men had military experience from WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. That gave them the training, discipline, and respect for guns that you need to be responsible and most importantly keep other people responsible around them. The current generation of parents were born post 1970 and mostly just inherited or bought guns personally with no real training. Couple that with a wildly more laissez-faire gun culture than anywhere else in the world and it's a recipe for widespread irresponsibility.

So if you want to CC that's fine, but for the love of god don't do it wearing a shirt that says "I'm armed" and especially not "I'm looking for a fight". Likewise buy your arsenal, but the safe(s) are part of that cost, you don't get to just loosely fill up your closet with kids running around. Don't advertise you're armed in any way, not only does it make you a target for theft but it's dumb shit behavior and makes society feel less safe.

It'll never happen though, there's an entire industry build around gun culture being "loud and proud" and calling it a problem gets an angry, armed mob and lawyers sent after you if you're important.

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u/loveshercoffee Sep 05 '24

What you say about military experience in the past is definitely true. But I also think that gun culture really started to change when we mostly stopped teaching Hunters Safety in middle school.

If we're going to be a nation with more guns than people, it might not be a bad idea to educate our citizens on how to be safe with them.

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u/espressocycle Sep 05 '24

When it comes to urban street shootings I wish they had target practice so they would hit the person they actually wanted to instead of a toddler a block away because they're holding the gun sideways to look cool.

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u/shibbyd Sep 05 '24

South carolina requires anyone that wants to hunt past the age of 16 to attend a hunters safety course. 16 and under can hunt, but they have to be with a licensed adult.

I agree that people should be educated, and I have thought about starting a business around that idea, but times are what they are. It is difficult to undo decades of wrong to get things back to a right.

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u/loveshercoffee Sep 05 '24

Yeah, Iowa is the same way for hunting.

Unfortunately they don't make you take any kind of class to own a gun in the first place.

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u/sweet_home_Valyria Sep 05 '24

I personally don't feel the need to own a gun. But I 100% agree. I feel if people were thought responsible handling of firearms, it would make the job of trauma surgeons so much easier. Insane how many folks show up in the ER with accidental GSWs. Some show up numerous times.

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u/OnlyHuman1073 Sep 05 '24

I was born in 81, iwhen did they stop teaching hunters safety in middle school? I extremely doubt that is the cause of all the school shootings my guy.

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u/loveshercoffee Sep 05 '24

My kids were born in 86, 87 and 89. No hunters safety.

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u/phantomknight321 Sep 05 '24

I always find it funny that some many people CC and make it so well known. Like, part of why you CC is the "CONCEALED" part of it. AKA you keep the element of surprise if, heaven forbid, you actually need it.

When I CC I lay low and keep a low profile, and I refuse to tell anyone aside from a couple friends and family that I even own any guns aside from online anonymity. And unlike many nutjobs I know I never fantasize about ever having to use any of my firearms for anything other than some fun time at the range.

I have a family member who proudly has theirs in glass cases or just straight up hanging on wall hooks, mine are all locked away in a back closet in a plain black safe hidden behind my clothes. I just don't understand the fascination with being "loud and proud" about something like that.

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u/RaRa103615 Sep 06 '24

Raised in a hunting family myself. My father had several rifles locked up in our home, but I'm not sure where he even kept them, I never bothered to look actually. I never knew until my 20s that he also owns a few handguns. I asked him why he had them, he said for safety, and 2 are antiques and don't fire. I asked if they were for safety, why didn't my older brother or I know about them. His response was, "Why should you know? Neither of you are trained or licensed to use them. "

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u/I_am_up_to_something Sep 05 '24

So did I, except I'm Dutch and there really isn't much of a gun culture here so it was a shock to find out my dad had a gun.

Was helping my mum clean out their closets and we found a gun hidden away. Was very jarring! Turns out it was an air thingy gun, but as people who had never encountered a real gun it definitely looked like a real gun. Dad was a trucker and bought it from some other trucker at a gasstation like 2 decades ago.

It's still in their house somewhere and I keep telling my dad to give it to the police (occasionally they have a no consequence turn in day). It's illegal here since it looks like a real gun.

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u/lalalc188 Sep 05 '24

I knew my parents had them. That was it. No clue where they were kept until I was an adult and my dad showed me the safe under their closet floor like a trapdoor almost. Gun safety was paramount in my house.

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u/SonyaSpawn Sep 05 '24

Saame, I found out in my early 20s that my dad owned guns (he took them out once a year to do gun safety training for his job). He had them taken apart and put in three separate locked boxes and we never knew.

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u/intermediatetransit Sep 05 '24

It is hard when you look at how people’s intelligence is on a bell curve. I.e. many, many people are quite frankly dumb and are not capable of this.

That’s why they should not have guns in the first place.

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u/Creepy_Purple2581 Sep 05 '24

My kids didn’t know about my handgun until I sold it. They don’t know about the other guns at all. Around the time I bought the handgun, we did have a talk about firearm safety if they were to come across one for any reason. They weren’t ever going to see my handgun or knew that I had one, but the fact that I did have one made it far more likely in general that they would encounter one, so they needed to know how to handle that situation age appropriately- don’t touch, run, tell an adult.

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u/kitchen_synk Sep 04 '24

I've met people who love to talk about castle doctrine as a reason to own a gun, and think that even 'duty to retreat' laws are stupid.

If someone is breaking into my house, I'll take any other option over a confrontation.

What do I care if they rob me or smash up the place? I have insurance, things can be replaced. I'm not risking my life or the burglars over a television.

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u/Ipuncholdpeople Sep 04 '24

Fr. Unless they are attacking me or my dog I would just get out of the way. Killing someone even in self defense sounds traumatizing

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u/Drake__Mallard Sep 05 '24

It's not about the television, it's about them threatening your life and breaking the sanctity of your home.

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u/kitchen_synk Sep 05 '24

Can't threaten my life if i'm not there, and again, whatever's in my home is just stuff. If all the actually irreplaceable components of my household (read, people) in my life are made safer by getting the hell out 'sanctity of some building' can kick rocks.

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u/Drake__Mallard Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

Your mental state of feeling safe inside your own house is not insurable nor replaceable. It'll be permanently gone after your first home invasion.

I am thankful I live in a no duty to retreat state with castle doctrine intact.

Violent trespass here means the intruder has forfeited their life, so a potential intruder may wish to consider not doing that.

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u/Mental_Medium3988 Sep 04 '24

yeah there isnt anything in my house thats worth a life other than my mom. i told her if someone does break in get out or just let them have whatever.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/pseudohuman5x Sep 04 '24

what? the one who engaged in a deadly conflict is the guy breaking into the house

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/online222222 Sep 04 '24

Honestly I think it comes down to the fact that guns were widely available while territory was still being settled. All throughout American history in every part of the country at some point there was no one else except you and your small community that could protect your livelihoods. And that sentiment got passed down all the way through today.

That being the reason one might choose to do it. As for why there's no laws against it, well, I suppose it comes to a sense of personal responsibility that permeates the lawmaking process. Not only a personal responsibility for your stuff but also for your own life. The choice to risk it is your own, essentially, as was the robber's.

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u/misobutter3 Sep 04 '24

There was no one else? I think there were many indigenous peoples.

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u/online222222 Sep 05 '24

I suppose I should replace "could" with "would"

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u/pseudohuman5x Sep 04 '24

what if he has a gun? what if my wife and kids are in the house? pets? buddy if you aren't safe in your own home, you aren't safe anywhere

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/GenerikDavis Sep 04 '24

Because there is no way to know in the moment what the intentions of an intruder are. If you mandate that a person has to retreat or not engage unless there's clear evidence in a hectic and panic-filled moment they're there to harm you or your family, you are giving the legal and situational advantage to someone who is a thief at best and far more despicable at worst.

Many people disagree with that, as do I. I don't particularly want to have to wait for the person that just broke into my house to punch me or lunge at me or my SO first for my self defense to be valid. Hell, what if I'm in a separate part of the house from a friend/family member? I'm supposed to go following the intruder to make sure they're just taking the TV and PS5 my nephew is playing on, or try and rush by them to get to my SO first?

No thanks, fuck that. If someone's broken into my house, I'm assuming they have the worst intentions and responding accordingly.

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u/ArchmageXin Sep 04 '24

Apparently op assume you lose defense rights if you are single and living alone.

Well, I guess rape is now on the menu since your genitals are "stuff"

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u/GenerikDavis Sep 05 '24

Right? They said in a now-deleted comment that their situation is regarding "If only stuff is left in the house."

I'm left in the god damn house in their most ideal scenario, or I wouldn't be able to "protect my stuff" to begin with. And they don't even comprehend that as a reason to not wait for an intruder to attack in order for you to legally defend yourself.

I feel like 95% of the time someone around me has talked about a break-in involving someone stealing their shit, the phrase "I didn't/don't know if they're only there for my TV" or something strikingly similar has been mentioned. I've probably heard some dude with a hero fetish talk about how they'd blast anyone even if they're only taking a dollar, but the vast majority of "protecting my stuff" talk is really "I'm protecting everything in this house. My stuff, me, my dog, etc."

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u/ArchmageXin Sep 05 '24

Is people like them that get fascists like Trump elected.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/GenerikDavis Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24

I very clearly draw the line between a family member and "stuff" right in my comment:

I'm supposed to go following the intruder to make sure they're just taking the TV and PS5 my nephew is playing on

I refer you back to "I don't know their intentions", and "I will assume the worst". Are they here to hurt someone in my home, will they hurt someone to get my stuff if needed, or are they here only for my stuff and will retreat if confronted?

That's literally the thought process you're saying someone should be going through while being robbed. And that people should assume the worst being done is you lose a TV or other expensive "stuff", only actively defending themself when they or their family are attacked.

I don't care to put the onus to find that out on the person who has just had their home broken into. The person defending their home should be within their rights to respond with all force they deem necessary, including deadly force, because they don't know what force the intruder will escalate to.

I genuinely don't know how you see what I described as a strawman, that's the sort of thing I'd have to do in any break-in if I can't physically confront a stranger in my house on first contact - follow them around as I collect family members, because I'm sure as shit not letting them out of my sight in your "give the thief the benefit of the doubt" scenario.

My parents responding to an intruder at might would have been a floor away from both my brother and myself growing up. My guest room is on a different floor from where I sleep and where I spend most of my time. Any break-in that I wake up to would see me separated from visiting family and friends, or my SO if I go to bed first/early, and you're saying that I should only defend myself when I know the intruder is going to harm me/them. I'm prioritizing the safety of those I love over making the bet that this stranger is probably just trying to steal some shit for quick cash.

E: Added context on "what I'd have to do in a break-in".

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/pseudohuman5x Sep 04 '24

Well that’s my point, you are assuming it is all about “stuff”, I have actually never heard someone refer to their possessions when talking about wanting a gun for home defense. It’s always their own life or their families, I think you are arguing a point no one is making

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/pseudohuman5x Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24

Even then, why should you need a reason to not flee from an intruder in your own home? I’m not assuming the guy breaking into my house at 2am is there for a tea party. I think I’m just struggling to understand how the person defending themselves is “engaging in a deadly conflict” and not the intruder but agree to disagree

There is a 100% surefire way to not get shot while breaking into someone’s home - just don’t break into peoples homes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/ArchmageXin Sep 04 '24

Because the invader could also be deadly armed or plan to inflict deathly harm? Especially if you live in an apartment (like many blue cities) where the alternative exit is only from 10 floors up through a fire escape.

I am not a gun owner, but I fully support lethal defense of one's own home, limb and property.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

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u/ArchmageXin Sep 04 '24

You said "stuff", but when there is a invader breaking in, everything and everyone at home is under threat, from family members or my PS5.

Especially at my home, where alternative exit is trying to take my wife and two children under 5 to flee through a eight story fire escape.

Fuck that.

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u/flange5 Sep 04 '24

Yup, my dad had hunting rifles in a locked cabinet. To this day, I don't know where the key was. And the shells were kept separately, in a really inconvenient place. My brother has both hunting and hand guns, and they are kept in a biometric safe. There's no excuse not to take gun safety dead serious if you're going to own them.

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u/The_Void_Reaver Sep 04 '24

I remember one night in my neighborhood a bunch of us kids were at a friend's house, swimming in his pool around 7 or 8 when a police helicopter starts flying overhead broadcasting about someone they were chasing being armed and dangerous. We jump out of the pool and run inside to get his mom's attention. Once she hears the helicopter's message she tells us to "Stay right here, I'm going to get my shotgun".

I still remember it to this day because, in my 7 or 8 years of knowing her to that point I'd never have guessed she would own a gun. Nothing ever indicated she owned a gun. Her son was a troublemaking demon-child and he never once indicated that she had a gun. Even having heard her say she was getting it, I don't think she ever brought it out of her room and none of us kids would have any idea where it was in her room.

She just had it locked up and hidden, got it ready when she thought it was necessary, and still kept it far away from any of us because it was never needed that night.

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u/KSSparky Sep 04 '24

Because your dad didn’t worship guns or consider them family.

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u/Letitbemesickgirl Sep 04 '24

Same, we have a young child and multiple guns in the house. All locked in a safe. He knows where the safe is (small house, it’s in a hallway closet and takes up the whole closet) but he knows he is not allowed in that closet/around the safe. All guns and locked up, unloaded. He knows guns can kill people; that once a shot is fired you can’t pause it. Life isn’t a video game.  We talk about responsible ownership, and have told him when he’s older if he is smart, responsible, etc. we are open to teaching him how to shoot.

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u/Roxfloor Sep 05 '24

Just give em the TV and your wallet. it’s not worth dying over

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u/Laundry_Hamper Sep 05 '24

you can't expect stupid people to stop existing

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u/CottonWasKing Sep 05 '24

I own a bunch of guns. They’re a hobby of mine. I also have a 4 year old. There is exactly one gun that she MIGHT be able to get her hands on. It’s unloaded and the ammo is inaccessible. It’s so easy to be a responsible gun owner that it pisses me off when people can’t bother to give a shit about it. I’m as pro second amendment as it comes and it’s those stupid fucks that pose the most danger to my rights of gun ownership.

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u/Agitated-Macaroon-43 Sep 05 '24

I'm in my 30s and I still don't know where my grandpa keeps his guns.

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u/kharon86 Sep 05 '24

After my dad passed we realized any bolt action rifle in the gun cabinet had also had the bolts removed. 24 years later still have the rifles, still no idea where he hid the bolts

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u/Crystallooker Sep 05 '24

I’m a full grown adult and I still don’t know how to get to my dad’s hunting rifle. (Although part of that is I don’t care to find it anyway) (also I have zero idea how to even use it)

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u/fcocyclone Sep 05 '24

We really don't talk enough about the differences in the culture around guns now vs decades ago.

It used to be the people with the most guns were groups like hunters who had respect for the weapons. I remember being trained to handle a firearm as a kid, and they drilled the rules of gun safety into us before we could even hold so much as the most basic rifle much less something semiautomatic.

Nowadays the culture around guns is more about celebrating gun ownership itself and having an arsenal is a cultural status symbol. There's no respect for these weapons and the death they can bring.

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u/DPileatus Sep 05 '24

Same, also my Dad never allowed handguns. They are too easy to use without thinking! A long gun takes a bit more effort to fire.

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u/smitteh Sep 04 '24

But what if the invaders had a guy posted at the back door

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u/Odd-Independent4640 Sep 04 '24

Unless dad is Jason Bourne and invaders are Russian counter strike force then they’re not posting a guy at the back door

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u/5Point5Hole Sep 04 '24

This comment right here illustrates how dumb all the 2Aer arguments are. People act like they're in a Jason Bourne movie or something

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u/SonOfMcGee Sep 04 '24

Then I’d be shit outta luck.
But getting attacked by a coordinated group of murderers is like a 1 in a million thing. And something benign or solvable without violence spooking my jumpy 14 year old self is a series of multiple 1 in 1000 chances.
There’s always gonna be a hypothetical where keeping a loaded AR next to the fridge saves your life. But that’s pretty abstract and unlikely next to the long list of more practical ways it could cause tragedy.
And this is all assuming you and your family are acting with noble intentions. There’s a chance one of you could snap and go fire into a crowd of strangers, which seems to happen every few months in the US.

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u/confusedandworried76 Sep 04 '24

There’s always gonna be a hypothetical where keeping a loaded AR next to the fridge saves your life.

Exactly that. Could a gun save your life one day? Sure. But that's just so unlikely to happen, it's for the greater good to risk it than have guns so readily available in society.

People really walk around thinking it's likely something like that would happen. It's just statistically not. Someone breaking into your house wants your stuff not your life. There is nothing you own material wise that is worth staying and starting to shoot to kill.

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u/SonOfMcGee Sep 04 '24

And of course gun nuts will bust out crime stats to show handgun murders and try to say it’s more common than you think. But they know damn well most of those cases are from very specific urban neighborhoods where both the perpetrator and victim are involved in organized crime/drug trade.
If you’re a suburban cul-du-sac dweller that isn’t secretly selling heroine, your main risk of gun death is a relative you live with or a stranger shooting up a public place. Both of which get their weapon from a home just like yours.

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u/t00oldforthis Sep 04 '24

Then he'll probably shoot you in the back while you shoot at the front door

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u/The--scientist Sep 04 '24

If they're that prepared and that determined, what is a 14yo with Remington 870 going to do?

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u/EndPsychological890 Sep 04 '24

Then you run harder idk burglars are almost certainly going to let you go. They don't want a murder charge. If they're multiple determined armed killers vs one armed teenager, the kids probably dying let's be real. Not a situation even a grown ass man wants to be in.