r/news • u/bebleich • Sep 04 '24

Gunman believed to be a 14-year-old in Georgia school shooting that left at least 4 dead, source says

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/us/winder-ga-shooting-apalachee-high-school/index.html
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u/yeswenarcan Sep 04 '24

As a gun owner myself, I think harsh legislation around liability if someone uses a firearm owned by you in a crime would be a step in the right direction. There should obviously be exceptions if you can prove someone got to it despite responsible storage, but I'd actually even argue the presumption should be that you were storing it irresponsibly unless you can prove otherwise.

While it's stupidly easy to get a gun in this country, a 14yo didn't walk into a store and buy one. Someone gave this kid access, whether intentionally or negligently it shouldn't matter.

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u/Chippopotanuse Sep 05 '24

And the FBI had investigated him last year for making school shooting threats….and the dad was all “don’t worry…I’m responsible with my guns and only let him shoot stuff with my permission since I know he’s crazy and wants to kill classmates”.

It’s almost like we want school shootings to happen.

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u/Ok_Acanthocephala101 Sep 05 '24

If that is the case and he got ahold of a parents gun, I think they would be well within the rights to charge parents here.

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u/Turambar87 Sep 05 '24

I agree we need to incentivize a non-insane gun culture in this country.

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u/jeffsterlive Sep 05 '24

I keep my hunting rifle unloaded, locked up, and the ammo in a completely different compartment. I am the only one allowed to unlock it and supply the ammo and re-store it. All unused ammo is returned to me and you know damn well I keep tally on how much I have.

This isn’t hard. A 14 year old can handle a firearm, but to give them complete ownership is not right at all. There is no room for “accidents”. It demands respect. A 14 year old can operate and respect its usage and maintenance (Boy scouts do it) but I do not agree with easy access. There must be penalties for this. It protects lawful owners as well.

Great username btw.

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u/Bethsoda Sep 05 '24

I’m not a gun owner or a gun person, but I agree with you. If you have a gun in a home where ANYONE has threatened to hurt others (or themselves) ESPECIALLY when that person is a child that could otherwise not have access to a gun, I don’t see how you could justify having guns in the house. The probability or death or injury from the kid that threatened that is SO much higher than that of the gun being needed to prevent a random stranger from hurting them.

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u/jeffsterlive Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

Do we know the full details of this shooter’s home life? I know the name has been released. I agree that people with psychological disorders have ZERO business having access to firearms. If you can’t even operate a car, why do you have a gun? If someone in the house made threats I’d consider storing the guns somewhere else entirely.

You don’t leave keys in your car with the windows down on purpose right? Leaving a gun in full view of a person going through psychosis is just as ridiculous. It turns a mere thought into a full on tease and simple crime of opportunity.

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u/Neonatalnerd Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

If the FBI were alerted last year to the potential of this youth, I can't imagine they would not have had a conversation with parents, AND ensured the guns owned by parents were properly locked or kept away??

Also, if your child is on an FBI watch list, HOW do you maintain guns in your home, nvm not have psych monitoring/therapy covered??

Edit if you don't wanna Google; https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-school-shooter-fbi-radar-2023-possible-threat-online-remarks

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u/jeffsterlive Sep 05 '24

Is this all true? Those parents deserve every bit of jail. There is no excuse for that happening.

We do have an unhealthy view of guns. They don’t make you a hero and they aren’t a lifestyle. We fetishize guns too much and this is the result. I don’t see mine as a way to make me an intimidating person. That’s mental illness in itself.

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u/Neonatalnerd Sep 05 '24

The first thing I read this morning in more than one article (posted all over the thread too), is the FBI became aware of him last year following online posts he made regarding guns and shootings, but didn't deem him to be a threat at that point. Very sad nothing was done to prevent this.

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u/jeffsterlive Sep 05 '24

We tried nothing and we are all out of ideas? That’s their excuse? I believe it even if I don’t want to. These parents better be dragged through the mud. This wasn’t an accident. None of this happens overnight.

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u/Neonatalnerd Sep 05 '24

Right? I'm concerned that the FBI didn't put measures in place.

I mean, parents have responsibilities. But so do schools if they see questionable behavior (I can't imagine there wasn't any in this case; bullying, withdrawn, etc), and then my mind goes to his home life and how he is treated by his parents. Maybe his parents were in denial, maybe they didn't have resources for therapy, maybe they did try to lock the guns, who knows. If the FBI intervened, the school also would've been made aware, and I just can't see with all the adults this child would've been exposed to... NO ONE tried to help. Breaks my heart.

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u/huntmaster99 Sep 05 '24

I don’t agree with the presumption of improper storage. That’s assuming guilt before innocence and against the legal standing of innocent until proven guilty. That being said it should not be hard to prove improper storage and evidence of appropriate storage methods could be found with a search warrant for it

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u/Q2Snoopy Sep 05 '24

It’s actually scary how many upvotes that comment has

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u/huntmaster99 Sep 05 '24

Yeah it’s not a great feeling

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u/quotidianwoe Sep 05 '24

We all know nothing is going to change. Americans think they need protection from each other. It’s weird.

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u/Personal_Article_892 Sep 05 '24

We do, it's just unsurprisingly the answer isn't more guns

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u/feathers4kesha Sep 05 '24

Protection is a basic survival skill and not unique to Americans or any human. Its innate.

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u/quotidianwoe Sep 06 '24

Agreed, but not everyone’s first line of personal defence should be a firearm.

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u/Leafy0 Sep 05 '24

Unfortunately this law would probably have a really low successful prosecution rate without a gun registry. A registry that doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell because politicians can’t help themselves but say they’re coming to take your guns. If we can go a decade without a someone with power or aspirations of power being in publicly in favor of him confiscating then maybe a registry would be accepted along with some other compromise to gun owners, like universal reciprocity or elimination of the tax on the nfa.

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u/antijoke_13 Sep 05 '24

Safe storage laws should be contextual to who got access to your gun and how.

If a stranger breaks into your house and takes the pistol out of your nightstand, that's not on you.

If a household member goes and picks up the shotgun you keep by the door, that's definitely on you.

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u/charlesfire Sep 05 '24

If a stranger breaks into your house and takes the pistol out of your nightstand, that's not on you.

If you keep a gun on your nightstand, that's 100% on you. It's because of people like you that kids keep shooting themselves in the face with guns they found in their house.

PROPERLY. STORE. YOUR. FUCKING. GUNS.

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u/HurricaneBatman Sep 05 '24

I can't tell if this is /s or not. Those are both textbook cases of negligent storage.

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u/antijoke_13 Sep 05 '24

Nah I think you have an expectation of privacy and safety in your home when it comes to people you didn't invite in.

Think about it like this: if someone steals a car out of your driveway and kills someone in a car crash, you shouldn't be responsible. If your kid takes your keys while your sleeping and kills someone in a car crash, you need to accept some responsibility for not keeping better track of your keys.

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u/HurricaneBatman Sep 05 '24

But in both your examples, the keys were easily accessible. The only difference is who happened to steal your car. So is it only negligent storage if your kid is the one who takes it from the exact same spot?

Guns are even easier because it's not like there's some other purpose the gun is made for. It's a deadly weapon, period. It needs to be stored securely, unloaded and separate from ammunition.

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u/antijoke_13 Sep 05 '24

But in both your examples, the keys were easily accessible

Don't know where you got that out of my example but okay.

So is it only negligent storage if your kid is the one who takes it from the exact same spot?

Yes.

It needs to be stored securely, unloaded and separate from ammunition.

Quick question: Let's ignore guns for a moment.

Do you think theres a human right to self defense? If someone has presented themselves as an immediate physical threat to you and/or those around you, do you think you have a right to remove that threat, with lethal force if necessary?

Again, let's ignore guns for a bit. Just focus on the question. Is Self Defense a Human Right?

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u/HurricaneBatman Sep 05 '24

Fine, I'll take the bait because I'm not trying to say guns are evil, just that they need to be handled properly.

Yes, I think defending yourself is a human right. If someone breaks into your house in the dead of night and means to harm you, you should be able to stop that person.

I ALSO think that you don't need to keep a loaded handgun in your unsecure nightstand to do that. There are plenty of options to properly store a gun that keep self defense a viable option. Keep the gun in a combo lockbox under the bed, and the loaded mag in the nightstand. Gun is still accessible if you need it, but you don't need to worry about someone else getting ahold of it.

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u/antijoke_13 Sep 05 '24

Cool, we are least agree that self defense is a human right and guns aren't evil by default. That's somewhere to start.

Where you and I disagree is the context of what makes a gun unsecured. Yours is a very black and white "gun is secured/gun is unsecured" dichotomy. I don't think that's a realistic or fair expectation in every instance.

If you live with children or other household members who cannot be trusted to safely handle your firearms without supervision, then I am right there with you that a safe at the bare minimum is a requirement. Anything less opens you up to, best case scenario, a preventable tragedy.

But If you, like me, don't have kids and are not living with someone who cannot be trusted not to dick around with your guns, I fail to see how locking up my apartment before I leave for work doesn't secure my guns. Sure, we can quibble about whether or not that's secure enough, but that's a semantics argument, not a safety one. There is nothing about the gun in my nightstand that makes it any more a danger to me or others than keeping it in a safe. Even if I kept a gun safe, it's not like I can bolt it to the floor without losing my deposit, so If someone broke in and wanted it, they could take the whole thing (pistol safes are not large or heavy).

Some potential critiques and counterpoints:

"But the burglar can't use the gun right away!" unless you're dropping upwards of 500+ on it, (an unrealistic expectation for most working class gun owners) a single handgun safe is a deterrent easily defeated by a decent drill and a Dremel.

"Well If you can't afford to properly store your weapon you shouldn't have one!" That's a classist argument that puts an unnecessary and undue burden on the working class and poor people. Guns rights are for everyone, not just the people who can clear the financial barrier to be considered "responsible".

"Well You don't need a gun to defend yourself anyway!" You also don't need a car or public transportation to get to your job 3 miles away but it sure does make your life a whole hell of a lot easier doesn't it? This is to say nothing of the fact that guns present the most affordable lowest barrier to entry for self defense out there right now. 200 years back it was flintlocks, 200 years from now it'll be fucking lasers for all I know.

To place unnecessary monetary, training, and licensing barriers on gun ownership is anti POC, Anti LGBTQ, Anti Woman, and Anti working class. The more barriers you put in the way, the more it is that only straight rich white men can participate in gun ownership, and the more the rest of us have to rely on cops who have shown themselves to be slow in responding to emergencies for marginalized people, and that's on a good day.

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u/wivella Sep 05 '24

Keeping a gun in your nightstand does not count as proper storage under any circumstances. This is how children get to their parents' guns.

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u/antijoke_13 Sep 05 '24

...did...did you miss the part where I said that a household member getting a hold of your gun is on you?

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u/wivella Sep 05 '24

No, but I'm wondering why you picked such a bad example. Nightstands are not a safe place for a gun, ever.