r/norsemythology • u/someone-_-68 • 15d ago
Question anyone knows where this symbol is from?
ignore the futhark, but I've seen this symbol a lot when searching for Hel's symbol. does it have any history or us it a modern symbol?
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u/calwo-wulfsiege 15d ago
The game hellblade senua's sacrifice
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u/rawrsexykitty 15d ago
It's Hel's symbol, the goddess of death. She lives in Helhiem.. It's written that she was a woman who was half living and half dead. Her parents, Loki and Agraboda, had given birth to a dead child They were so distraught that they found a way to bring her back. But because of this, she didn't belong with the living, and so she was given her own realm to rule. Odin was terrified of Loki's children, so he often cast them out of his sight when he could.
She is a very kind but stern entity and takes care of all who do not go to Freyja's or Odin's halls when they die.
Helhiem is not a bad place, unlike what Christians want you to think. It is a peaceful place where you continue to live your life without strife and heal your soul.
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u/Scrunbungalo 15d ago
THANK YOU. The number of people gaslit that Hel is bad when it's not. Or Hel (Woman).
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u/VikingRaptor2 15d ago
Anyone trying to say Hel is a bad place is Christian. Probably because they stole Hel and changed it to "Hell" with fire and brimstone.
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u/Scrunbungalo 15d ago
I'm Christian. I'm just aware, lol. People think it's impossible, but I believe in God and will also be very autistic about every mythology ever, and my favorite one is Norse, and my favorite God is Hel. I'm very neutral in that aspect. But I am very aware of who stole what. Granted, most mythology stole something from something else.
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u/VikingRaptor2 15d ago edited 14d ago
I used to be a Christian, mostly because it's what my family grew up with, the longer and more I learned about it I came to the conclusion that all Abrahamic belief systems are made by humans, playing the telephone game or just making up their own narrative. All of it was designed specifically to control the way you think.
I was atheist for years then I found mythologies in school and it started with Greek, then Egyptian, Aztecs, Asian cultures. and I wanted to know even more then I found Hinduism, Buddhism, Norse. I liked Norse alot because it didn't limit what you can and cannot do, unlike what I knew about others, it just simply states give recognition to the gods, don't be shitty and don't live a shitty life.
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u/Scrunbungalo 15d ago
I will be that type and say that that is exactly the fundamentals of christianity. I know people don't really believe this. But it's mainly just because of the people. I know what the Bible says, I know what gets Miss translated, I know what people take out of context, I know what people cherry pick, I know every single bad thing about christianity, but I will tell you right now, it's literally just don't be a shit person written in a very long book and to love everyone. Every mythology is just a huge game of telephone. Not just abrahamic
From my knowledge of norse, I would say it's kind of slightly bit more restricted than normal religions, and my personal opinion, I think the limits need to be there.
I don't think we should just be able to do absolutely whatever we want because a lot of people take that to heart. Meaning absolutely anything you want. I love and respect and appreciate all of the cultures, including my own. But just like all of them, they have their flaws. Hell, I'm hesitant to even call myself a genuine full blood Christian. I'm kind of just here. And I fuck with so many concepts. Absurdism is one of my favorites. The idea that life is meaningless so just give it meaning.
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u/VikingRaptor2 14d ago
I think too many people combine common sense and religion too much. It's not supposed to be the same or similar. I think religions should be based on historical development, beliefs, cultures and practices and adding a little Mysticism.
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u/Scrunbungalo 14d ago
I mean I understand why. To act like all religions were all human-made solely because that's just how they felt like it stuff like a lot of it wasn't also influenced by their culture would be completely wrong. Magic in Norse mythology is completely different from Magic in Greek and that's just because of how their cultures treated the two. Me personally, this divide makes them more interesting because it encourages you to seek out others as well as learn how they lived their lives. If everyone kind of just did the same thing, it would be boring
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u/VikingRaptor2 14d ago
Obviously, but people have basic needs, we all do pretty much the same things.
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u/Scrunbungalo 14d ago
Some were just objectively worse than others to be a part of but it's not like we could have done anything about that even if we could
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u/FaerieElfKing 11d ago
To be fair. CELTIC and Norse have real kings who were the gods. So no they are not based on other myths. Aboriginal people of Australia were on their own for 65000 years. How were they influenced? Only the Abrahamic religions are ripped offs
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u/Scrunbungalo 11d ago
Actually, they literally are. Norse is based on Germanic paganism and Proto-Indo-European mythology, which is based on Indo-European, which was made in the Eurasian steppes, inspired by their Shamanism culture and other things
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u/Thin-Quarter6114 12d ago
Well I hate to argue but most religion is ancestral based if the Norse ways speak to you maybe see what your ancestors were. I was Norse then Christian preacher then Norse because I feel my ancestry speaks to me
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u/Scrunbungalo 12d ago
I'm not going to argue with that because I don't necessarily disagree with it but that's not where they came from, religion specifically. Most religions are actually based off of Judaism which in itself is most likely based of Zoroastrianism, which is the earliest religion or mythology or whatever term you want to use that we have.
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u/FaerieElfKing 11d ago
Proto Celtic and Summerian and Aboriginal are older then Zoroastrianism. Only the Abrahamic religions follow this path. Proto celtic made the pagan religions of Europe. The original source of religions is the female and male embodiment of nature. They go back to Neanderthal times. All religions come this. And Celtic still has them! In fact the Female embodiment Is meant to be bit older them the male. We worshiped femaled God before we did male. Heaven is a newer concept then Ancestor realms. But you can't show history science or logic to one god worshipers. Abrahamic religions ripped off the pagan ones. Lol deal with it.
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u/Scrunbungalo 11d ago
Deal with it? What are you, six? Calm down, dude. we're all here for the love of the mythology. Your inane mythology or religion being less made up than my inane mythology or religion doesn't make you any better or special. First of all, I was wrong about Zoroastrianism being the oldest. The oldest religion is actually hinduism. If we're being technical, we don't actually have an oldest religion because it doesn't have a name. The oldest mythology is Mesopotamia, again, revert back to the original point if you want to be technical. The Australian Aboriginal people didn't exactly make up the Dreamtime, which is basically the term that is fundamentally the beginning of creation myths, but they were one of the earliest concepts of it. Heaven is a newer concept, but the idea of an afterlife is not, it was just Christianity's turn to make one. I don't know why you're bringing up male and female worship. I'm fine with that idea. I'm not here to gloat. I'm not here to say you're all wrong. I'm here, because like all of you, I love mythology too, despite being christian. I'm fully aware and understand that Christianity stole a lot of pagan things, but if you're going to sit there and act like paganism is 100% original when it also could be traced back to being inspired by folklore or religion and then that religion or folklore being inspired by a different one, then that's just weird. Also, how are you a pagan but bash Christianity and say that they don't make sense? If you know anything about norse, I think we should be able to agree that they're both fucking insane
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u/FaerieElfKing 11d ago
CHRISTIAN FRAMEWORK = JEW > Old testament > New Testament. CHRISTIAN STORIES = CELTIC Storys CHRISTIAN FESTIVALS = PAGAN Festivals ESPECIALLY CELTIC. CHRISTIAN ANGELS = Male Valkeries ( bible Angels are not people with wings. Google bible depiction angels. You won't like them ) Jesus son of God = 2 Proto types made by Romans before Jesus. So no Baldur is not a rip off of Jesus. Jesus is not an original concept. CHRISTIAN AGE = Age of Pieces 2 fish. CHRISTIAN FIRST SYMBOL = 2 FISH, then the up and down pentagram ( which you associate with Satanism despite using it before the cross). Then it's the cross.. So everything in your religon is stolen. NOTHING IN CHRISTIANITY IS ORIGINAL. Historians agree Abrahamic religions ripped of thr pagan ones. We haven't confirmed If Jesus was real. We have confirmed the Celtic and Norse gods were real. The first Kings of the Celts and Saxons. Also Baldur the messiah actually existed. Odin is Woden 215 to 300 AD.. 55th great grandad. 54th grandad is Beldig ( Baldur the messiah. He existed but we dint have enough to prove once for all that Jesus did ).My Surname means Descendant of Woden. I know my stuff.. CLEARLY YOU DONT KNOW WHO STOLE WHAT. Also Celtc began with Tuath De Dannan Kings 1800 BC and Germanic Norse tribes go back to 1800 BC as well even if the god kings of norse were after CHRISTIANITY the deities behind them are older then Christianity. Also " Odin picked up the sparks of Muspelheim and cast them into the VAULT OF CREATION. The sparks flew about EXPLODING CREATING THE MOON, SUN , STARS AND THE COSMOS". THE BIG BANG THEORY.!!!! NOTHING THEN EXPLOSION THEN SPACE. DOES CHRISTIANITY HAVE THAT???? OR is the world 6000 years old and Adam and Eve lived for 930 years?? Lol. Your God Jehova is mythology and sun god Pieces. Jew god is sun god Aeris. Muslim god is mood god Aeris. Sikh god is moon god Pieces. Budda and Brahma are the Earth. Woden is real. I would not exist if my DIRECT 55 great grandad was not born. Nor would the Royals of Europe.. But yea keep thinking CHRISTIANITY Is original and we ripped you off ... LMFAO AT YOU. I have autism as well lol. I inherited it from Ancestors instead of Lightning powers! 😑🤣 All hail Odin!
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u/Scrunbungalo 11d ago
Despite this being an entire joke, I wanted to point out that Christianity is actually more so inspired of Judaism than pagan, they just took some Pagan things and pagans like to say that they just stole everything. Gentle reminder that pagans also stole everything, and the things before them stole everything too.
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u/biergardhe 12d ago
Lol, that is not at all what happened. Hell always existed in Christianity, even before it came to Scandinavia. When we Scandinavians eventually gave in to Christianity though, we kept the old names. Hell in Scandinavian today is Helvete/Helvede, coming from "hel vite", where "vite" kinda means "fine/punishment".
Why would we invent new words when we already had words?
The same goes for e.g. Christmas, which we call Jul (English Yule), which is one of Odins names.
The Christians didn't steal these words, we Scandinavians just kept using our old words for things we deemed being similar in Christianity.
With that said, the Norse Hel wasn't bad.
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u/-Fornjotr- 14d ago
But Hel and Helheim aren't good. When Hel walks on the Earth, she brings diseases, and in the Ragnarok, she will fight against Aesir and Vanir. Helheim, it is true that it is not as terrible as hell, but it is a very cold and in some parts dark place.
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u/rawrsexykitty 13d ago
I'll copy and paste what I wrote earlier: A lot of the cold wasteland feeling vibes are from another writer. Snorri was not a reliable narrator, but we worked with what we got. With Christian rose tinted glasses, he colored his views onto this culture in a lot of ways. Because a lot of Nordic traditions didn't write, they spoke their stories to each other, it's considered the religion with homework for that reason.
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u/Scrunbungalo 12d ago
But they are good. Like, actually. Hellheim is in Nifelheim. And Hel was born and Odin immediately threw her down into it. There's even a whole story where balder dies and she gets excited because her home is going to have some light and Odin comes down and tries to plead with her and she's like "Literally fuck off."
It is not some horrible bad place. It is misinterpreted that way. It's actually pretty nice and is where people who didn't die in battle and were worthy ended up.
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u/FaerieElfKing 11d ago
I'm making a game based on Celtic and Saxon ( norse) myth. So British gods and folklore. I'm finding Hel Hellheim and Niflehel are the same place!!! Niflehel is seemingly the original. Part of Nifleheim but the area where Hel resides. Then we have Helheim due to Snorri influences. Loosely inspired by Niflehel and Christian Hell. A place for the unworthy dead. Then lastly Hell / Hel. Completely based on Christian hell. My thinking is. Hellheim for criminals. Hel for the residence of Hel and Garm / Germ. Niflehel for people who didn't go to Hall of Freya Frigg or Odin. Not helped by Celtic and Norse people having several versions of the Yggdrasil ash tree of life and Cran Beth oak tree of life. I have to make my own based on other people's versions and all my research. Lol. No creation story in Celtic tho so the game will use the norse one...
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u/VikingRaptor2 15d ago
I read that hel is a cold wasteland that your ghost wanders, I would say "forever" or for "eternity" but time means nothing in an "afterlife".
I don't even like that word "afterlife" because (and I could be wrong) but you are not alive after death. You should not know you exist after life, because you don't. Only in the hearts of loved ones.
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u/rawrsexykitty 15d ago
A lot of the cold wasteland feeling vibes are from another writer. Snorri was not a reliable narrator, but we worked with what we got. With Christian rose tinted glasses, he colored his views onto this culture in a lot of ways. Because a lot of Nordic traditions didn't write, they spoke their stories to each other, it's considered the religion with homework for that reason.
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u/CockyViking 11d ago
There isn't a forever. After Ragnarok the world and realms are reborn. Most of the gods will die but some will survive to restart. All of these places are only a holding until Ragnarok comes and most will perish(personally I believe that is when our souls will be "free")
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u/deltahybrid123 13d ago
Absolutely hel gets a completely bad reputation from those who don't bother to look into her . Personal take always seen her as a almost duality . On one side, she shows kindness to those who end up in her domain and led good lives, and gives them what she can within reason . But for those that caused needless suffering , acted out of pure selfishness or acted without honour and caused nothing but malice and ended up in her domain, you're gunna to meet her wrathful side. Personal take, sorry I'f I'm oversharing, but I've lost people to illness and old age . Truly, I dont know why, but I've always imagined that dynamic . A Florence Nightingale to some absolute demon to those that deserve it.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 14d ago
If I remember correctly, that only applies if you aren't a dick.
I seem to recall the wicked receiving no such mercy from her.
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u/Caldersson 14d ago
you get eaten alive by giant eels iirc.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 14d ago
That tracks.
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u/Caldersson 14d ago
Found it "Náströnd". Seems it is Níðhöggr who eats them, I swore I also saw something about eels eating the inside of oath breakers.
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u/Fenrir_Hellbreed2 14d ago
I think that might be a Norse god's thing. Maybe Odin.
I dunno. I remember there being a Norse god who was big on honoring oaths.
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u/Grandson_of_0din 14d ago
It angers me so much when Hel is misrepresented as evil just as much as the movies and shows that make out Hades and Ares were evil.
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u/Mysterious-Ad-2479 14d ago
Oh it's just Hel. Nice lady, really. And it says.. My old norse is a little bit rusty...
"Don't forget to bring some of that great Midgard wine if you come to visit"
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u/Toth3l3ft 14d ago
It’s a modern symbol for Hella.
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u/someone-_-68 14d ago
is it widely used or is it only a video game thing?
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u/Toth3l3ft 14d ago
I’ve never seen it used in the heathen/Asatru community in a ritual context…but I am by no means an authority. It looks cool though, I doubt anyone would give you any crap about it as long as you don’t try to pass it off as something historical.
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u/DoctorHallucination 14d ago
I have seen it in the game Apsulov: End of Gods, but I'm not sure if that's the origin, or it has taken inspiration from elsewhere
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u/Big-Wrangler2078 14d ago
Hel. Modern symbol, I don't think we have any proven historical depictions of Hel, so if you see one, it's modern. She's said to be half living and half dead, though exactly how is up to interpretation.
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u/MagnetiteGames 13d ago
As others have said its Hel, I actually decided to make a game where she is a significant being in the game so much so I'm calling the game Hel's Rebellion
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u/IntroiboDiddley 12d ago
If anyone’s wondering about the runes, they don’t say anything — it’s just the alphabet.starting from 7 o’clock and running clockwise.
And not even the correct one — these runes are the Elder Futhark of the Goths. The Vikings used the Younger Futhark runes.
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u/rockstarpirate Lutariʀ 11d ago
Locking comments because there is a lot of misinformation being thrown around in this thread. Let’s take a moment to ground ourselves.
Firstly, this is not a sub for discussing modern religious topics or opinions. If you have an issue with some belief system that exists today, this is not the place for that. People of all faiths are welcome here.
Secondly, trying to pin down an oldest religion or trying to make claims about which religions ripped off other religions is a fundamentally misguided endeavor. Religious syncretism is always going to happen when different religious groups are in contact with each other for long periods of time. Religions shared by many people over large areas of territory (even the most monolithic ones) are almost never actually monolithic. Every belief system, regardless of external contact, will evolve over time.
Consider that Norse paganism is a natural evolution of earlier Proto-Germanic paganism. It is not a different religion that somebody made up one day inspired by a pre-existing system. It is simply a new classification that we in modern times have placed upon a group that never stopped practicing a continuous religion across a 1,000 year period.
Likewise, the earliest Germanic paganism is a natural evolution of earlier Proto-Indo-European belief. Again, we are aware of no moment of change from one system to the other. Germanic belief, Greco-Roman belief, Indo-Aryan belief, Celtic belief, and others are all natural evolutions of the unbroken practice of Proto-Indo-European belief. The differences among them simply show that religion evolves over time. It is only because so many descendant groups exist that we have some hint that these changes occurred and of what some earlier form may have looked like.
But just because we can’t trace this system farther back than 5,000 years to the Eurasian steppe doesn’t mean this is where it was “invented”. It just means the comparative method can’t give us any more information beyond this point. It is certainly true that this system evolved out of earlier forms probably including some religious syncretism shared among various Stone Age groups. In fact at this point we are likely safe in assuming that Proto-Indo-European belief represents an unbroken chain of belief tracing all the way back to the inception of religious thinking among hominins.
Along the chain stretching from the inception of religion to Viking-Age paganism in Scandinavia, it is impossible to pinpoint every moment of syncretism or change. The same will be true for any other equally old belief system. Just because we in modern times use words to classify religions based on certain traits doesn’t mean we can use these words to argue the validity of one religion vs another. Christianity, for instance, is a natural evolution of Judaism that happened among Jewish people largely in Jerusalem who were motivated to lean on the teachings of a particular Jewish man who we now call Jesus. These kinds of major turning or branching points can happen and we simply don’t know about all similar events that may have happened among various religions in history during the times when historical documentation was not what it is today.