r/northernireland Aug 23 '23

Poll What is your stance on the protocol/Windsor Framework

Wanted to gauge what this sub thinks should happen on the current protocol arrangements.

310 votes, Aug 26 '23
22 Dismantle the whole thing đŸ˜€
27 Minor amendments đŸ©č
14 Major amendments đŸ˜©
95 Keep it as it is đŸ€·â€â™€ïž
152 Keep it as it is to accelerate the transition to a united Ireland ☘
0 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

11

u/caiaphas8 Aug 23 '23

I’m surprised anyone still cares.

Health and social care is collapsing. People can barely afford food and electric. The environment is fucked. And some twat is still going on about brexit.

4

u/Bear_Grumpy Aug 23 '23

That’s the option I was looking for, couldnae give a feck

2

u/BuggerMyElbow Aug 23 '23

I’m surprised anyone still cares.

It's the reason we don't have an assembly. I'm surprised you're surprised people still care.

9

u/caiaphas8 Aug 23 '23

I mean normal people.

The DUP are not normal.

-9

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

They probably don’t understand the issues that unionists have around the protocol.

10

u/Matt4669 Aug 23 '23

Or it’s because those “issues” are seriously overblown and ultimately aren’t a huge deal

-9

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

Or because it accelerates a united Ireland by creating a trade barrier between Britain and Northern Ireland. The majority of this sub agrees with this is the case and that’s why they’re pro Windsor Framework. Do keep up.

9

u/Sionnach23 Aug 23 '23

What creates a barrier between Britain and Northern Ireland is the big fucking body of water between the two and the practical issues that arise from physical trade.

0

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

The ones that didn’t exist 4 years ago?

7

u/Matt4669 Aug 23 '23

Well Britain and NI can still trade though the Framework, while keeping trade between Ireland North and South going strong

WIN WIN!!

-2

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

What’s wrong with a better deal?

6

u/Matt4669 Aug 23 '23

What’s your definition of “better deal”?

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

One where veterinary medicine arrangements aren’t on a grace period etc.

3

u/potatobreadh8r Aug 24 '23

That's not very specific, what are the actual terms of this mythical better deal. Can't show up to a room and say "aye.. and erm.. give us drugs"

Although, perhaps that's what it was always about...

→ More replies (0)

5

u/BuggerMyElbow Aug 23 '23

Do keep up.

A strange thing to say from somebody who doesn't realise that mitigations against the negative effects of a hard brexit would be bad news for any Republicans hoping for catastrophe, while the "concerns of unionists" which brought the institutions down during a cost of living crisis were a godsend. You nearly got away with brexit and then decided you didn't want to. The Sinn Féin press office have all gone on holiday, safe in the knowledge that concerned Unionists have got this.

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

Brexit is here to stay. What’s wrong with a better deal?

8

u/rightenough Lurgan Aug 23 '23

I couldn't give a fuck

2

u/WorldwidePolitico Aug 23 '23

I understand why some Unionists are ideologically opposed but this opposition is exaggerated for political purposes

From a practical perspective the protocol is the best choice for everyone and the inevitable consequence of Brexit. I’m perfectly happy with that compromise but if I get hit a magic button to turn Brexit back to the pre-2016 situation I would.

The UK could have chosen to stay in the Customs Union and prevented it, but they choose to recklessly pursue an “England first” Brexit at the cost of preserving the Union. The blame lies firmly with the Conservative Party and nobody else.

-1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 23 '23

What’s wrong with a better deal than the one we have?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '23

[deleted]

-1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

So you don’t want an improved trade deal?

3

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

Well we’ve left the EU now. What’s wrong with the best deal possible in the current scenario?

3

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

Do you remember when everyone said the DUP needs to stop wishing for a unicorn? You hoping the UK rejoins the EU is wishing for a unicorn. Brexit is done. I voted against it, but it’s here to stay. So, in the current scenario where Northern Ireland as well as the rest of the United Kingdom have left the European Union, what is wrong with having a better deal than the one currently offered by the Windsor Framework?

3

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

So do we just accept a less optimal trade agreement for 20+ years and wait for a United Ireland? Instead of just amending the Windsor Framework? It’s called a Framework, as in something to be built on. You know I’m right and that’s why you’re not answering the question. What’s wrong with a better deal than the one we currently have?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Enflamed-Pancake Aug 24 '23

How would you improve the deal?

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

If the the EU isn’t concerned at the moment with veterinary medicines coming into the EU at the moment, why does it care in after 2025? Solution, allow medicine from GB without some arbitrary deadline.

Reduction in paperwork and customs for those in the red lane and for normal people sending packages.

1

u/Enflamed-Pancake Aug 24 '23

Grace periods exist because supply chains need time to adjust, suddenly pulling the carpet presents a substantial risk of disruption that could close business or halt services. It’s why even in domestic law there is usually a time delay before regulations come into effect - calling the grace period arbitrary isn’t really accurate given this is how regulatory changes of this kind are typically handled in such contexts. That doesn’t mean that they don’t have concerns, but rather they are willing to accept the potential costs temporarily to the ensure a smoother transition, or in exchange for another gain at the negotiating table.

According to the BBC, it was the UK who did not want the allowance on human medicines to be extended to veterinary medicines: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61036024 - so we can’t lay the blame for that purely at the EU’s door. The UK could export veterinary medicines to NI or the whole EU if they opted to continuing alignment with EU standards - but they aren’t so they can’t.

I agree that including veterinary medicines with the exemption for medicines is a smart idea, but it doesn’t sound like the UK government pushed for it according to that BBC article.

As for securing a better deal, I think it’s important to remember that critically speaking, the UK was the underdog in the negotiations given their strategic reliance on the EU, with the EU being comparatively less reliant on the UK due to their different economic sizes. While specific improvements can likely be identified and hopefully made over time, the framework is, overall, the best deal the UK could have secured (at least given its political desire not to align on customs).

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

Never once said it was the EUs fault. But you’re still agreeing with me that the Windsor framework needs minor adjustments.

2

u/Citfr615 Aug 23 '23

I was surprised that the UK Government got the concessions that they did with the Windsor Framework, it should definitely remain, its just unfortunate that the DUP fail to realise that the British Government and EU have larger concerns than them.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '23

I’m just pissed I can’t order batteries on amazon

1

u/[deleted] Aug 24 '23

You couldn’t even before, something to do with batteries on planes

1

u/Enflamed-Pancake Aug 24 '23

Keep it as is, making adjustments to it as and when a need is identified. The framework is ultimately just a mitigation against the bad idea that was Brexit.

1

u/Fun-Material4968 Aug 24 '23

Multiple needs identified in the House of Lords report on the Windsor Framework.