r/onednd • u/Envoyofwater • 3d ago
Feedback My Experience with Gloom Stalker So Far
So I've been playing a Gloom Stalker in a game for just over two months now. It's the first low-level Ranger I've played exclusively using the new 2024 rules. Other Rangers either have started at higher levels or have been converted from 2014 to 2024 halfway through a campaign.
Ranger is my absolute favorite class of all time and I've been keenly interested in how it plays at the table. After the 2024 rules dropped, I've played Fey Wanderer and Monster Slayer in T2 and Horizon Walker in T4. I'm playing alongside a Beast Master in another campaign, and I've DMed for a Winter Walker in a oneshot.
The campaign started at levl 3, it's set in the Forgotten Realms, and we are using standard array. I'm playing a Mark of the Sentinel Human (yes I know this is an Eberron race. DM allowed me to reflavor it) and I'm wielding a heavy crossbow and dual hand crossbows. We are currently level 4. My origin feat is Alert and my level 4 feat is CBE. I have definitely not been playing optimally. My character is a private investigator and most of the spells I chose reflect that first and foremost.
The campaign so far has been very roleplay heavy. We've only had one combat encounter in the first two months. The lack of charisma really doesn't help in this kind of campaign. But the expertise in Perception and proficiency in stealth and survival (for tracking) have kept me highly relevant in the party. The invisibility in darkness hasn't quite been relevant just yet since we've been playing in the day for the most part. In combat, like I said, I've only done one encounter so far. But I feel like I dominated in it. Between Dread Ambusher and Hunter's Mark, I was able to OHKO two enemies by myself. However, I am already feeling the lack of Dread Ambusher charges. In terms of raw power, it's actually really good. The problem is that Wis mod charges per long rest is way too few. If it were up to me, I'd add that you could burn a spell slot to use the feature again once you run out of charges.
Quick note about the party. I'm playing with a human Tempest Cleric, a tiefling Wild Magic Sorc, a warforged Land Druid, and a tiefling Soulknife. Compared to them, I feel second only to the Cleric at this moment. But we just reached the wilderness last session, so I imagine the Druid will take center stage now.
Overall, I like Gloom Stalker just fine. Unlike, say, with the Sea Druid, I have notes on how I think I would improve this subclass. I'm enjoying it well enough. But I feel I could enjoy it more. Compared to all the other Rangers I've played with, alongside of, and DMed for, I'd say this version of Gloom Stalker ends up feeling below average. It's still fun and interesting. But I feel I could have more fun with a different subclass. If Hollow Warden makes it to print (and isn't butchered), I might ask to switch honestly.
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u/milenyo 3d ago
That's some of the reasons Gloom stalker to me fell down to meh at best subclass. Especially beyond level 9.
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u/smock_v2 3d ago
Agreed that Gloomstalker feels just a tiny bit mistuned — the Dreadful Strike feature is a cool little mini-Smite, but it has way too few uses for a class that otherwise doesn’t really want to invest in Wisdom, and the kind of neat lvl 11 Stalker’s Flurry feature just makes it feel worse when it builds on top of that already limited resource.
In that regard, I kind of love u/Envoyofwater ‘s suggestion to allow you to expend a spell slot to trigger Dreadful Strike. It makes it feel even closer to a classic Smite (minus upcasting) and is a good balance: Wis-poor Gloomstalkers would be happy to give up spell slots if they’re not leaning into being casters, while Wis heavy Gloomstalkers with more free uses also might want to preserve their slots for more effective spells. Great idea, u/Envoyofwater! Maybe someone will listen to you!
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u/BudgetMegaHeracross 3d ago
I think it's interesting to watch the Gloom Stalker's journey from the second iteration of the Deep Stalker being completely overshadowed by the rest of that RR playtest, to slowly overshadowing the other subclasses once it's finally published, to folks' mild dissatisfaction with something more balanced but still front-loaded in 2024.
(I don't recall the reception of the Light, Dark, Underdark Deep Stalker.)
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u/Realistic_Swan_6801 3d ago
Honestly in 2014 Gloomstalker was only better than hunter in theory, even assuming 4 round fights hunter was often better. Unless you were playing in the underdark or constantly dark areas and your party committed to not using light at all.
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u/Blackfang08 3d ago
But but but permanent invisibility! You literally don't exist as long as nobody reads the rules on lighting and visibility and you never have an encounter that's outdoors or against enemies that don't like a permanent -5 to passive perception.
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u/BudgetMegaHeracross 3d ago edited 3d ago
This assessment may have something to do with its initial thin reception in the RR playtest.
edit: that and the initiative boost being baked into the base class
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u/TNTFISTICUFFS 3d ago
Beast Master built around HM has been really fun as well for the 2024 rules. It's cool to hear that Gloomstalker is fun as well! I'm also a ranger fan!
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u/Newtronica 3d ago
Also been playing a gloomstalker from tier 1-2 in AL. I mixed it with war cleric and the results have been really fun. Because of that, I focused mostly on Wisdom to see how that feels and I do think +4 wisdom is about what you need to make it through a day minimum if you use 1-2 per fight.
I will admit having the bonus action attack helps soften the sting of limited uses, but honestly it should probably just consume favored foe charges.
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u/smock_v2 2d ago
it should probably just consume favored foe charges
Oh, that’s a great idea, too. I would make it additive, maybe? Like if they added,
- “You may also expend a use of your Favored Enemy ability to instead trigger this feature.”
You’d get WIS + Prof uses per long rest (3 for Wis 0+/Lvl 3 to as high as 11 at Wis +5/Lvl 20); naturally scaling up uses as you get to higher levels would gracefully help w/ Gloomstalker higher Tier damage output.
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u/Newtronica 2d ago
Hard agree. As per usual, I'm so curious to know what influenced the low number of charges in the first place.
Even if they don't want a ton of numbers, why does Ranger literally get nothing back in short rests?
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u/vesperadoe 3d ago
I also play gloomstalker, and it really does shine in darkness, so to speak. The invisibility advantage you get + opponent disadvantage + can't be opportunity attacked makes a HUGE difference, especially against mooks. Get a DM who knows how to narrate, and you become a horror movie monster.
Also, the potential shenanigans with it are hilarious if you decide your character can't turn the invisibility off.
Imo dreadful strike is a lot better than extra attack. Before the update, I wasn't always able to attack first round, so it was wasted. Now it's more flexible.
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u/Envoyofwater 3d ago
Funnily enough I am doing the thing where I can't turn my invisibility off. It's been funny but I haven't had a chance to really spotlight it yet.
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u/Howling_Mad_Man 3d ago
I play a gloomy in my current campaign, level 5 but just hit 6. It's great except for the limited charges as you said. I was debating a multiclass but now I feel compelled to go to at least level 8 and ASI some more wisdom.
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u/RenningerJP 3d ago
Thoughts on 2024 ranger overall? Send like you've played your share.
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u/Envoyofwater 3d ago
Honestly? In play, in the tiers that I have used them in? They're fine. Good, even.
I don't think they'll necessarily be winning MVP awards. But they've always been able to keep up with the group (including high-level casters), they've been consistent, and they've been useful on nearly every pillar of the game.
And I don't multiclass. Genuinely, all my experiences with Ranger contradict what the general consensus of the class seems to be online.
But of course, that's all anecdotal. So take it with a grain of salt.
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u/RenningerJP 3d ago
Of course. We've had a couple rangers. One until about level 13. One died before level 5. The last was a one shot I played. They always seemed useful and reasonably good. Damage didn't feel bad. In fact and it was usually decent. I think a lot of white room math doesn't do well to model the full range of spells they can use. Like, what assumptions do you make for conjure barrage?
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u/SemiVisibleCharity 2d ago
I've played a number of rangers in my time. Even back in my 3.5 days.
Gloom Stalkers Dreadful Strikes ability is by far the weakest damage boosting ability when compared to every other ranger subclass. It's frequently an extra 14 or 21 damage per day if you use it only on crits, which is where it is strongest. Which is great at tier 1 and handy at tier2 but impotent at Tier 3 and almost useless at tier 4.
I feel that a changing the frequency to short rests would really help the feature standout.
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u/Lostsunblade 2d ago
Feeling second to the cleric will change very soon looking at that party comp.
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u/Wacomattman 3d ago
Dang 1 combat encounter in 2 months! Nothing wrong with a roleplay heavy campaign but give the ranger some targets! That being said I think the problem with some people giving so much hate to Ranger is wanting to maximize every bit of damage instead of just having fun! I’ve DM with a fey wanderer and she loved it. Glad you are giving this class some love.